The Swamp

I think that changes things. If he's a good boss who has really good unwritten rules, you maybe accept the bad unwritten rules.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:58 pm I'd qualify for better, and much cheaper health insurance. That matters to me, given my past health incident. (The interviewer told me that I'd qualify to get insurance even though I'd start as a substitute - I'd still work full-time even as a substitute.)
If I stick around five years, I'd get their retirement program. I don't know the details of it yet, but I'm told it's good.

I would definitely research the retirement benefits and look at the healthcare sections. Many state/gov systems allow you to continue in the same plan after retirement as long as you meet their years of service requirement.

If anyone looks down on you for the work you do then they are just showing you their own insecurities. They should fuck off.

TT2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:16 am is this a common enough sentiment on employers to try to find a way to fire me? we spoke again today and he told me that he understands i have a family to think about and while he doesnt like me working for prime he understands it, but he also told me as long as i worked for him i would be employed, that if the poker room got shut down he would give me a job at one of his other businesses and that i would never have to worry about finding a job as long as him or his son was around. From my experience Arabic employers really takethat "treat employees as family" concept literally. i asked him for a half day off to go to my girlfriends dads funeral. he gaveme two days off to be with her and asked me what i was gonna wear. i told him my work clothes and he hands me 500$ and says to get a suit because it shows proper respect for the departed. not a loan, just a gift 500$. hes that kind of good boss to work for

I wouldn't say it's common...it depends on the type of person the boss is. Could it be used as an excuse to fire someone? Yes. Would it be the only reason someone would get fired? Depends on the industry/type of work but probably not. Bottom line is people get fired for one of two reasons*:

1) the fire-er just doesn't like the fire-ee
or
2) the fire-ee does something believed to be so egregious that they have to made an example of, even if the person is well-liked

From your description above your boss sounds like just as you say...he treats employees like family and he seems like a good guy. You gave some good examples of that. What it's really about is loyalty...he was probably just initially surprised that you were working for a competitor but then came back to a place of reason.

Most if not all career counselors or business people will tell you that priority one should always be to look out for your own self interest and that there is no such thing as loyalty (or being loyal isn't necessarily a good thing to do). The best example of this is the DeMar DeRozan trade to San Antonio. He showed he was loyal to Toronto...embraced the city and the team; took less money to stay and tried to be the face of the franchise and the Raptors still shipped him out. Lesson being you can't always count on loyalty paying off for you.

*I'm basing this on my ~8 years in multiple Human Resource roles and HR was my college major. 80% of the time it's #1.

I don't know how many poker rooms there are, but I kind of compare it to working at a family restaurant and then on days you don't have shifts there, you're working at a rival across the street. While you're free to do so, I completely understand the boss not wanting you to and taking offense.

Right, and the best way to get a wildly-and-uncommonly loyal boss to turn on you is to do something that's perceived as disloyal. Its not my style, but I get there are plenty that feel that way.

Job interview this morning. I'm way too nervous.

Picture yourself in your underwear.

Anyone know anyone looking for a developer job in STL?

The experience required is negotiable if it is someone more recently out of college.

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:05 am Job interview this morning. I'm way too nervous.

My wife is at the airport, headed to Chicago for an interview tomorrow. I hope she gets it because she is fucking miserable in her current job.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:22 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:05 am Job interview this morning. I'm way too nervous.

My wife is at the airport, headed to Chicago for an interview tomorrow. I hope she gets it because she is fucking miserable in her current job.

You guys wouldn't have to move would you?

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:29 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:22 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:05 am Job interview this morning. I'm way too nervous.

My wife is at the airport, headed to Chicago for an interview tomorrow. I hope she gets it because she is fucking miserable in her current job.

You guys wouldn't have to move would you?

I certainly hope not. The arguments over purge/keep (I imagine a much, much smaller house/condo) would be epic. I mean, we have shit that has been in boxes from the move nearly five years ago... and we added kid #2 in the interim.

When she had her first phone interview, they mentioned previous interviewees had mentioned telecommuting and the company wasn't particularly keen on it (which seems unnecessary, the job is in internal communications/networking - I also find it quirky that she would need to be in their Evanston office when her immediate supervisor is based in India - I also get that there are plenty of other people to see on a daily basis). In the second interview, they seemed to be much more open to telecommunicating, so she doesn't think so.

She just got upgraded to first class, so hopefully, it's an omen.

I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

Yeah, it seemed like the company was definitely in the "must relocate" camp after first interview. We both started to get anxious about it at that point (I even consulted a couple cost of living websites online). After the second interview, she said they were much more open to it. She seemed to think they cooled on it was because the interview process was moving so quickly. Maybe as they were interviewing candidates, most of the ones they liked were more interested in telecommuting. I wonder if they want to hire someone quickly, but feel they can't make someone relocate in such a short period of time and will require the new hire to be working out of the office by July 1 of next year or something like that.

With all the travel you do, I would think being close to a major airport like O'Hare would be a benefit, no? A lot fewer connections, anyway.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:27 pm With all the travel you do, I would think being close to a major airport like O'Hare would be a benefit, no? A lot fewer connections, anyway.

While it would be good to be close to a major airport (for both of us, actually, if she gets the job), I don't do that much travel, or at least not that frequently. I tend to travel for longer spans of time, like in about three weeks when I head out to the San Jose area for about 3 1/2 weeks. And, yeah, I'll have a couple days off on Labor Day weekend. And I should be back out there the last week of October-first week of November.

Gah....I hate the 'write some code on the white board' part of the interview process.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

If Chicago had weather even similar to what someplace like Memphis has I’d be living there already. It’s the best “cold” city in the US.

Yeah I'd live in Chicago again in a second despite the weather. Not so sure I'd trade for a suburban life there but if I had dough for a decent townhouse and private school id do it.

I bet if my 1st trip to Chicago had been December and my 2nd had been July rather than vice versa, my very positive impression of Chicago would be different.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

It isn't that bad.

Seriously, we park in the garage, hire a plowing company for the driveway, and have no sidewalks to worry about in our development. The road crews handle snow here better than probably any other place I've been (Minneapolis had ice on the interstate in downtown for about a week last January because they appeared to do nothing, either in preparation for or reaction to a significant snowfall).

I mean, because most of what you're talking about is the winter weather.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

It isn't that bad.

Seriously, we park in the garage, hire a plowing company for the driveway, and have no sidewalks to worry about in our development. The road crews handle snow here better than probably any other place I've been (Minneapolis had ice on the interstate in downtown for about a week last January because they appeared to do nothing, either in preparation for or reaction to a significant snowfall).

I mean, because most of what you're talking about is the winter weather.

I'll grant you the superior snow removal, but there is a lot more to hate about Central New York than just the winter. OTOH, for the same price, I can update my kitchen and master bath in NJ for the same price or I could buy my parents somewhat equivalent house in Vestal.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:36 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

It isn't that bad.

Seriously, we park in the garage, hire a plowing company for the driveway, and have no sidewalks to worry about in our development. The road crews handle snow here better than probably any other place I've been (Minneapolis had ice on the interstate in downtown for about a week last January because they appeared to do nothing, either in preparation for or reaction to a significant snowfall).

I mean, because most of what you're talking about is the winter weather.

I'll grant you the superior snow removal, but there is a lot more to hate about Central New York than just the winter. OTOH, for the same price, I can update my kitchen and master bath in NJ for the same price or I could buy my parents somewhat equivalent house in Vestal.

I hated many aspects of Los Angeles while living there, too. It's all subjective.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:07 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:36 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:42 pm I'm kind of surprised it's still somewhat up in the air, since I would think it would be a non-starter on at least one of your "sides", but hopefully it works out. On the bright side if worse comes to worse, there's much worse places to live than the Chicago area.

And there are few places worse in the US than where you currently live.

ETA: That was aimed at DSafe, not Brian.

It isn't that bad.

Seriously, we park in the garage, hire a plowing company for the driveway, and have no sidewalks to worry about in our development. The road crews handle snow here better than probably any other place I've been (Minneapolis had ice on the interstate in downtown for about a week last January because they appeared to do nothing, either in preparation for or reaction to a significant snowfall).

I mean, because most of what you're talking about is the winter weather.

I'll grant you the superior snow removal, but there is a lot more to hate about Central New York than just the winter. OTOH, for the same price, I can update my kitchen and master bath in NJ for the same price or I could buy my parents somewhat equivalent house in Vestal.

I hated many aspects of Los Angeles while living there, too. It's all subjective.

LA is subjective, CNY objectively sucks.

I assume Mrs. Giff was not fired?

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:30 pm I assume Mrs. Giff was not fired?

She still doesn't know. Had her meeting with HR, then immediately after had a scheduled meeting with the CNO of the main hospital (there are 8 hospitals spread throughout area) who indicated she wanted her to come work for her. My wife basically does a lot of work for her already and she loves Kelli. She wrote a recommendation letter for grad school and all that. It sounds like they are all for that and my wife is just waiting on the official word.

But her current boss is just a fucking cunt. And yes, that is my wife's word. She accused Kelli of sayting something racist and said "You always tend to talk without thinking. You recognize that about yourself, right?" to her before her HR meeting the other day. This is in addition to a) putting her on a PIP a couple years ago immediately after a yearly review when she received a 3 out of 5 and nothing on her PIP was mentioned as a problem in her review and b) telling her that she is too defensive because she doesn't just take criticism and instead tries to explain why she did something the way she did.

Here's my wife's racism:

Two weeks ago, Kelli, her boss and two co-workers were driving to an event. Her boss was complaining that her husband had to go on a business trip to Mexico because she was afraid he'd be murdered cause it's so dangerous in Mexico. She asked Kelli's co-worker, who's Mexican, why she shouldn't be scared. He said her husband would probably be safer if the co-worker was with him as he probably wouldn't be a target with people who blend in. Kelli then says something about another co-worker (who wasn't in the car) going to Haiti for work and maybe they should send Nathan (a black co-worker) to accompany her rather than who is going with her since that's not exactly the most peaceful place in the world either. Fast forward to Monday and her boss said she couldn't believe Kelli said such a racist thing, she had to let HR know and that the two co-workers went to the boss' office afterwards to say how offended they were.

I told Kelli she needs to either report the obvious racism by her boss or directly apologize to the other two to see if they really did go to her boss to complain. She did send them an e-mail apologizing for offending them, but she I want her to talk to them face to face and actually bring up that her boss said they complained to her. My guess is the boss is lying.

Anyway, it's been a while since we've had a good Camaroing.

So found out today that I did not get a job with the big ol search giant. One of their recruiters called a few weeks back, passed the phone screen and went on an in person interview in NYC. Was fun experience but not sure I was interested in moving. Well they made that decision one I did not have to make.

Would we have been naybors?

I got a call late yesterday that the people I interviewed with (and flailed a bit during the 'write C++ code on the white board' part) were 'very impressed' and that another team there wants to meet with me this morning.

This stuff is nerve-wracking, although it is a bit heartening to be constantly telling my boss, who semi-fired me a month ago that I've having to be out of the office for a bunch of interviews (I have another one with another place this afternoon).

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:36 am I got a call late yesterday that the people I interviewed with (and flailed a bit during the 'write C++ code on the white board' part) were 'very impressed' and that another team there wants to meet with me this morning.

This stuff is nerve-wracking, although it is a bit heartening to be constantly telling my boss, who semi-fired me a month ago that I've having to be out of the office for a bunch of interviews (I have another one with another place this afternoon).

Good luck, Dave. I hope you are finding fun ways to inconvenience your dick boss in your last days there.

She still hasn't heard anything back...is it wrong for her to reach out to HR?

It's not wrong...she should do so if the waiting is affecting her.

Do you know exactly how HR left it with her when they met? i.e. is she sure they were going to follow up with her?

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:36 am I got a call late yesterday that the people I interviewed with (and flailed a bit during the 'write C++ code on the white board' part) were 'very impressed' and that another team there wants to meet with me this morning.

This stuff is nerve-wracking, although it is a bit heartening to be constantly telling my boss, who semi-fired me a month ago that I've having to be out of the office for a bunch of interviews (I have another one with another place this afternoon).

Good luck, Dave. I hope you are finding fun ways to inconvenience your dick boss in your last days there.

Thanks...it went pretty well, I think. At least they called back in the afternoon asked for my references, so that's a good sign.

I also had a 'paired programming exercise' with a different place yesterday afternoon, where I was working in a shared programming space, writing python as a guy was giving me a problem to solve, and I was talking through my thought process. That went pretty smoothly (writing python is soooo much easier then C++ for me these days). With that position the next step would be going down to San Francisco for a day and meet the people there.

And yeah....I don't really give a shit about my boss these days, but I don't want to leave the scientists I've been working with in the lurch. I've really enjoyed working with them (for the most part), so I want to make sure they are covered when I walk out the door.

GoodKarma wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:37 am It's not wrong...she should do so if the waiting is affecting her.

Do you know exactly how HR left it with her when they met? i.e. is she sure they were going to follow up with her?

Yep, they said she'd know the next day or a couple days at most. This was Monday. I can't imagine this is a 4-day decision if they're letting her go. Most likely it's timing with the other position she'll move to and her boss at that point is currently at an event, so it's not her priority right now.

It's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.

The B in A_B stands for Bob.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:58 am The B in A_B stands for Bob.

I was worried that I'd just come off as a doomsayer, but thankfully it appears to have landed.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:58 am The B in A_B stands for Bob.

He enjoys Michael Bolton's entire catalog, actually.

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:55 am It's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.