Re: Investment advice
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:53 am
Looks like you can't buy more than 5 shares at a time through Robin Hood.
And CNBC doxxed DeepFuckingValue. That's fucked up.
It's the sixth version of The Swamp. What could possibly go wrong?
http://www.sportsfrog.net/phpbb/
As far as the hedge funds themselves, do we know whether retirement funds or endowments are involved with those very much? Institutional trustees are usually required to invest trust funds in certain kinds of assets and assets with a certain rating. (I should probably know this, since I'm one of the 401k trustees for my firm.)The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:11 amThis is the point I haven't heard anyone say. If the the Redditor guys "hurt the Hedge Fund Bros," doesn't that wipe out people's retirement funds, university endowments and a lot of other really good and necessary things and ultimately destroy our entire system?
Hedge funds didn’t just recently go “too deep” into short selling. It’s always been a foundational element of the definition of what makes a money manager a “hedge fund”. As in “hedging” against long bets on stocks by shorting other ones.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:17 amThat is a problem, but the systematic problem is that these hedge funds were going too deep into the shorts. If people were not so tied into the stock market for retirement, endowments and such, this most likely never would have happened. But the hedge funds were to not only trying to make a shit ton of money for themselves, but they are pushed by those that invest in them also. The need to get the quickest and biggest return is the root of the issue.The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:11 amThis is the point I haven't heard anyone say. If the the Redditor guys "hurt the Hedge Fund Bros," doesn't that wipe out people's retirement funds, university endowments and a lot of other really good and necessary things and ultimately destroy our entire system?govmentchedda wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:51 pmI understand it spoiled Snowpiercer for me!tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:43 pm I kind of understand that. But, also, I don't remotely understand that.
(the johnnie reddit thing)
Also, I suspect that when these calls come due, the market/your broker/whomever comes after ANYTHING you have to cover your potential losses, which would have meant the intermeshed hedge fund network that likely everyone who owns a fund, or has pensions that own a fund, etc. would have been liquidated and the entire house of cards would have gone poof.
I was always told that the market should be a slow play. But too many people just want that instant gratification.
Isn't the very simple answer that you bail out the non-private investors like universities and pension plans rather than the fund itself?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:55 pmThat's one of the problems with doing arson - sometimes you can't confine the effects to the thing you're trying to burn down.
And there is nothing wrong with hedging, but it was the constant need to hedge and then going in over 100% on the shorts. Not just on GME but others as well. The hubris of these hedge funds that no group of retail investors would be able to overturn their turnip cart. As we have seen, no other hedge funds would have been willing to disrupt Merlin from over shorting. Why, because they all work together to manipulate the market. And god forbid that retail investors would ever be smart enough or willing to hold on their shares.
I don't think that's very simple. The arson problem I was referring to isn't the failure of the hedge funds themselves, but the domino effects of hedge fund failures on other institutions and traders who either have funds with those hedge funds or who are owed money by those hedge funds. And the domino effects on our entire economy when credit dries up to handle those first domino effects.mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:22 pmIsn't the very simple answer that you bail out the non-private investors like universities and pension plans rather than the fund itself?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:55 pmThat's one of the problems with doing arson - sometimes you can't confine the effects to the thing you're trying to burn down.
I agree with you. I was just noting that nothing the hedges are doing is new here.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:30 pmAnd there is nothing wrong with hedging, but it was the constant need to hedge and then going in over 100% on the shorts. Not just on GME but others as well. The hubris of these hedge funds that no group of retail investors would be able to overturn their turnip cart. As we have seen, no other hedge funds would have been willing to disrupt Merlin from over shorting. Why, because they all work together to manipulate the market. And god forbid that retail investors would ever be smart enough or willing to hold on their shares.
Remember that probably only a couple/few hedge funds getting killed lately. Others shorted these hot stocks at their recent peaks and are doing great now.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:33 pmI don't think that's very simple. The arson problem I was referring to isn't the failure of the hedge funds themselves, but the domino effects of hedge fund failures on other institutions and traders who either have funds with those hedge funds or who are owed money by those hedge funds. And the domino effects on our entire economy when credit dries up to handle those first domino effects.mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:22 pmIsn't the very simple answer that you bail out the non-private investors like universities and pension plans rather than the fund itself?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:55 pmThat's one of the problems with doing arson - sometimes you can't confine the effects to the thing you're trying to burn down.
But if its wealth management shit, isn't that just the stated risk?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:33 pmI don't think that's very simple. The arson problem I was referring to isn't the failure of the hedge funds themselves, but the domino effects of hedge fund failures on other institutions and traders who either have funds with those hedge funds or who are owed money by those hedge funds. And the domino effects on our entire economy when credit dries up to handle those first domino effects.mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:22 pmIsn't the very simple answer that you bail out the non-private investors like universities and pension plans rather than the fund itself?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:55 pmThat's one of the problems with doing arson - sometimes you can't confine the effects to the thing you're trying to burn down.
Yes, but just because something is a stated risk doesn't mean it's okay to bring it about.
The Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
Don't build your house out of paper and match sticks.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pmThe Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
Okay, but your house is made of the same stuff.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:55 pmDon't build your house out of paper and match sticks.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pmThe Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
My house is not built of the same material.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:05 pmOkay, but your house is made of the same stuff.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:55 pmDon't build your house out of paper and match sticks.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pmThe Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
You don't have any money in any kind of retirement account involving stocks, and you also don't work at a job that would be affected by a 2008-style collapse of the financial system?duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:06 pmMy house is not built of the same material.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:05 pmOkay, but your house is made of the same stuff.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:55 pmDon't build your house out of paper and match sticks.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pmThe Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
That’s an oversimplification, the “hedging” these funds do are not only done with short selling, buying put options remains a viable strategysancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:20 pmHedge funds didn’t just recently go “too deep” into short selling. It’s always been a foundational element of the definition of what makes a money manager a “hedge fund”. As in “hedging” against long bets on stocks by shorting other ones.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:17 amThat is a problem, but the systematic problem is that these hedge funds were going too deep into the shorts. If people were not so tied into the stock market for retirement, endowments and such, this most likely never would have happened. But the hedge funds were to not only trying to make a shit ton of money for themselves, but they are pushed by those that invest in them also. The need to get the quickest and biggest return is the root of the issue.The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:11 amThis is the point I haven't heard anyone say. If the the Redditor guys "hurt the Hedge Fund Bros," doesn't that wipe out people's retirement funds, university endowments and a lot of other really good and necessary things and ultimately destroy our entire system?govmentchedda wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:51 pmI understand it spoiled Snowpiercer for me!tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:43 pm I kind of understand that. But, also, I don't remotely understand that.
(the johnnie reddit thing)
Also, I suspect that when these calls come due, the market/your broker/whomever comes after ANYTHING you have to cover your potential losses, which would have meant the intermeshed hedge fund network that likely everyone who owns a fund, or has pensions that own a fund, etc. would have been liquidated and the entire house of cards would have gone poof.
I was always told that the market should be a slow play. But too many people just want that instant gratification.
That was the one where multiple large banks gobbled up insane risk, packaged it together and lied about it before selling it off to other banks and crashed the entire system, right? That's the one that's going to be identical to a hedge fund or two taking a maybe $1 billion loss on one stock?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:35 pmYou don't have any money in any kind of retirement account involving stocks, and you also don't work at a job that would be affected by a 2008-style collapse of the financial system?duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:06 pmMy house is not built of the same material.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:05 pmOkay, but your house is made of the same stuff.duff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:55 pmDon't build your house out of paper and match sticks.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:53 pmThe Redditors. They're burning down the house of the people down the street who are real selfish assholes. But it's windy and dry and all our houses are close together and fires tend to spread.
I know its not being a good american, but I'd love to them to simply not be legal. There's no value contributed, just upward reallocation of money.
There's only one way that's going to happen and that's for enough people to finally get fed up with it. It sure as hell ain't the status quo. In fact, I think you can argue that crushing a few hedge funds that engaged in insanely risky behavior now may prevent a greater collapse 5 years from now.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:46 pm The failure of a couple hedge funds is fine as long as theres a way to stop any spread if it looks likely.
And hell, I’d love to see stricter rules and more widespread and tougher enforcement.
I think it is being a good American, honestly. There's a fairness issue in all of this and also the dudes that invented America weren't exactly the most keen on large concentrations of wealth.
I’d love for so much of that industry to be illegal.Gunpowder wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:41 pmI think it is being a good American, honestly. There's a fairness issue in all of this and also the dudes that invented America weren't exactly the most keen on large concentrations of wealth.
It might after a certain amount. Like firms with algorithms that make millions of trades a day? I don't think that is "investing" in the way the stock market was originally intended to function. But just adding a blanket fee to each transaction? That probably hurts me more than it hurts Melvin Capital and other big firms that trade in huge amounts while I'm out here buying like 1 YOLO OTM call.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:44 amI’d love for so much of that industry to be illegal.Gunpowder wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:41 pmI think it is being a good American, honestly. There's a fairness issue in all of this and also the dudes that invented America weren't exactly the most keen on large concentrations of wealth.
Gambling was illegal under the common law, and this included speculation in stocks. Then exceptions were made, etc etc, and here we are. If there was a way to ratchet some of this back, let’s go that.
GPJ, do you think a tax on stock transactions would help?
As far as I know, that’s the idea. The tax they’re talking about is like a few pennies per transaction or something.
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:00 pmAs far as I know, that’s the idea. The tax they’re talking about is like a few pennies per transaction or something.
Gunpowder wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:03 pmWell, that’s why I’m asking what you think about it.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:00 pmAs far as I know, that’s the idea. The tax they’re talking about is like a few pennies per transaction or something.
How many pennies are you going to charge a $20 billion fund before it starts to impact them? That's barely a rounding error. There are definitely algo firms out there who would be hurt but your regular money movers? I doubt it would mean much. I have to pay a commission to TD with every trade I make and it never influences anything that I do.