2015 NBA Draft & Offseason

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:21 am

Hey Hawks fans - is DeMarre Carroll any good?

Raptors just gave him a really big raise.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:45 am

DC47 wrote:Those are good points. I get the Love deal, as bad as he looked at times last year. I'm curious why he wouldn't prefer to play with another clearly contending team where he'd have a more desirable role. The Spurs, for example, if they strike out on Aldridge.

However, I'm still having trouble with Thompson being worth even $10M per year. Zero offensive game, and a bit below excellent both at rebounding and defending. Perhaps he gets $6M more per year for being approved by the Power Point Guard/Defacto GM as his personal caddy.

I think he has more offensive game than you give him credit for. He's not gonna stretch the defense, but he doesn't need to. He needs to pick and roll with Lebron or Irving, dive to the basket and attack the glass for putbacks or second chances. That team has three guys who can go off for 30 any night, they need hustlers. and that guy is a hustler. You are not giving nearly enough weight to the new salary structures...the cap is going to go up by 70% or something stupid. So much more money, and they HAVE to spend it on salaries.

And caroll is solid. He can be a really good piece. He is an all around player.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:04 am

Good to see the NHL isn't the only one infected with "_______ is getting $__MM???" syndrome, where the sum of those complaints / "actual values" equals about 50% of the cap being left unspent.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:25 am

Pruitt wrote:Hey Hawks fans - is DeMarre Carroll any good?

Raptors just gave him a really big raise.

He's a 3 and D guy who really, really made out well after Al Farouq-Aminu signed one of the first FA contracts for four years, $30 million.

The salary cap jump in a couple years will make this contract look a lot better.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:51 am

The Sacramento Kings organization is a spectacular dumpster fire right now. Here's a quick run-down of events since the start of last season under the direction of self-appointed genius/youth girls' league mastermind Vivek Ranadive:

- Fired Mike Malone, a solid coach who had accomplished the rare feat of actually getting along with DeMarcus Cousins, the team's one really good player
- Replaced Malone with Tyrone Corbin, seen as one of the league's worst coaches, then relieved him of his duties less than two months later
- Replaced Corbin with George Karl, how has a history of butting heads with players and at this point may just be chasing the all-time coaching wins record
- Did all of the above at the behest of GM Pete D'Alessandro, who ditched the team after the season to return to Denver, where Mike Malone is coincidentally now the coach
- Replaced D'Allesandro with Vlade Divac, who most recently was running the Serbian Olympic Committee and has no experience in an NBA management role
- Had it leak out that Karl doesn't like Cousins and wants to trade him, likely irreparably damaging their relationship and leading to Cousins responding with a series of cryptic, passive-aggressive tweets
- May or may not have contacted John Calipari to gauge his interest in taking over the team while Karl is still under contract
- And now just traded three players including Jason Thompson, their longest-tenured roster member, and last year's lottery selection Nik Stauskas (who, according to Vivek, rocks!) along with another first round pick and the rights to swap two more, to Philadelphia. The ostensible goal of the trade is to clear up cap space to sign marquee free agents who will not doubt be chomping at the bit to join this first-rate organization.

I wish DC were a fan of this team.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:46 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:The Sacramento Kings organization is a spectacular dumpster fire right now. Here's a quick run-down of events since the start of last season under the direction of self-appointed genius/youth girls' league mastermind Vivek Ranadive

I absolutely hated that Malcolm Gladwell article about Vivek and the full-court press, so I am experiencing significant schadenfreude in seeing just how disastrous the Kings organization is now.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:15 pm

My only notes on Carwash's post are these:

From what I recall, Vivek pretty much neutered D'Alessandro by hiring Chris Mullin as a consultant (oh, and before the NBA season wrapped, he ran off to St. John's to coach, without ever having coached before). Vivek hired Divac to be GM in March (when Mullin was still on board) and D'Alessandro left later.

The "snake in the grass" tweets are hilarious as a long-running gag on Twitter from NBA players who hate Karl - Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala, JR Smith, and Ty Lawson. Add Cousins and that is a formidable starting five, just need to fill out the bench. And emojis made Boogie's the best:

I implore all 76er fans to cheer anything positive Stauskas does with a "DEE-FENSE"/CLAP-CLAP style cheer, only replacing the words in the chant with "NIK ROCKS".

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:28 pm

Being hated by JR Smith, Carmelo Anthony, and DeMarcus Cousins is not exactly an indictment of an NBA coach. It more a statement that he has values, and stands up for them. I would worry about the quality of any coach who these players actually liked.

That said, hiring Karl to coach Cousins would appear to be a disaster. I'm surprised Karl took the job. Cousins is a very high value player. But could the Kings get anything like full value in a trade? Maybe the Knicks would give up their first rounder every other year until 2060, plus Phil Jackson.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:36 pm

What negative traits does DeMarcus Cousins (the famously not arrested player) embody? Like is he surly or tough to work with? Is that the negative you're bouncing off George F'ing Karl?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:57 pm

Famously tough to coach. The values I mentioned have to do with how the game should be played, and the coaches role in directing the team. I'm implying nothing about Cousins' off-court behavior. So too with Anthony, and almost completely with JR Smith.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:25 pm

Doesn't Karl have a far longer history of being tough to deal with?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:30 pm

Of course. He's an old guy. And many players on several teams don't seem to have found him to be hard to deal with. Smith, Cousins, Anthony -- it's no surprise at all that players like this object to him.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:37 pm

DC47 wrote:Of course. He's an old guy. And many players on several teams don't seem to have found him to be hard to deal with. Smith, Cousins, Anthony -- it's no surprise at all that players like this object to him.

Does Ray Allen count as a "player like this"? Because he has also said that he despised Karl when he played for him in Milwaukee? Reigning Finals MVP Andre Iguodala, who you really can't call selfish in light of his willingness to come off the bench for Golden State, also feuded with Karl. So it's not like Karl hasn't had issues with highly respected players.

As to Cousins, he was playing great and the team was exceeding expectations when Mike Malone was coach. He also was a key contributor for Team USA in the 2014 World Cup, and Coach K had no issues coaching him.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:50 pm

Joe K wrote:Does Ray Allen count as a "player like this"? Because he has also said that he despised Karl when he played for him in Milwaukee? Reigning Finals MVP Andre Iguodala, who you really can't call selfish in light of his willingness to come off the bench for Golden State, also feuded with Karl. So it's not like Karl hasn't had issues with highly respected players.

As to Cousins, he was playing great and the team was exceeding expectations when Mike Malone was coach. He also was a key contributor for Team USA in the 2014 World Cup, and Coach K had no issues coaching him.

I don't know enough about what Allen said, or the circumstances long ago with the Bucks.

With Iguodola, what he does at this age on this particular team tells me little about his attitude several years ago on a different one.

Karl is a strong character with distinct views as to his role. Many NBA players, used to having more clout and being treated with kid gloves, are going to have some problems with this. The ones who have the most will be the ones who are the most narcissistic and entitled. Anthony, Smith and Cousins are high on this list. Those lower on the list may have problems with Karl as well, depending on specifics of what was going on with the team and their role on it. That is pretty much par for the course. Other coaches with strong personalities -- Rick Carlisle comes to mind -- have had the same issues.

But Karl is a proven winning NBA coach, at several stops in the league and with diverse rosters. Whatever problems his character has posed seem to have been over-ridden by his coaching skills. So too with Carlisle.

As to Cousins having no problems being coached by Karl on an all-star team, I think there are a lot of reasons this means little. First, we know little about what actually happened. Second, Cousins had far less clout on that team. Third, it was a short-term situation.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:12 am

George Karl does not like having an offense around a traditional post-up player. Yet, he still chased the Kings job... and the Kings chased him. And there are reports Karl has turned around and gone behind the Kings' front office, making phone calls to gauge what the Kings could get in trade for Cousins, who is far and away their best player and asset.

Karl is not a strong character. He is a character (bordering on major asshole) with a strong attitude of "my way or the high way" that eventually looks good when he gets the roster turned over to what he wants to coach (so his rosters are not truly diverse - he gets guys to play an up-and-down style). I say this as someone who likes his coaching.

NBA players are used to having more clout because IT IS A PLAYERS LEAGUE. Popovich does what he does because Duncan has always got along with him. If Duncan did not like him from the jump (oh, and it didn't hurt that the Spurs lucked into Duncan, enabling Pop to win a title), Popovich would most likely not be the coach he is today, and I say this as someone who says he is the best coach in the NBA.

The Coach K who coached Cousins on an "all-star" team was Krzyzewski, not Karl. USA Basketball under Krzyzewski does not bring on guys who are problems. Period. The "younger" Iguodala also played for USA Basketball under Krzyzewski. So, wrong again.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:33 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:Karl is not a strong character. He is a character (bordering on major asshole) with a strong attitude of "my way or the high way" that eventually looks good when he gets the roster turned over to what he wants to coach (so his rosters are not truly diverse - he gets guys to play an up-and-down style). I say this as someone who likes his coaching.

Karl likes teams to play fast. But he's won at Seattle, Milwaukee, and Denver right from the start. He didn't need the rosters turned over to do this. At each place, he was successful enough to be retained for 5 to 10 seasons -- which is a long tenure for an NBA coach. So of course the roster changed, and in the direction of what would be successful in his style. It would be strange for a GM to do otherwise.

Karl has coached a lot of NBA players over the years. My guess is well over 200. He was successful with diverse characters who were not shrinking violets. Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, and Sam Cassell come quickly to mind.

NBA players are used to having more clout because IT IS A PLAYERS LEAGUE.

Some players, at least for a time in their careers, contest the power of their coaches more than others. Typically players with great talent, who can thus get away with this. Anthony, Smith, and Cousins are obviously in this category.

There will always be conflict between star NBA players and coaches. Karl is abrasive, just like many successful NBA coaches (again, Rick Carlisle is an obvious comp). Karl is also successful, right from the start, with several different NBA teams. Conflict and abrasiveness do not mean lack of success.

Why Karl wanted the Kings job is a mystery to me. The organization is an obvious disaster, and has been for years. If the situation blows up, as is likely, I'd say the problem is not primarily with George Karl or his personality. Sacramento has one of the most bizarre, unstable owners in a league that is known for this (Sterling, Dolan, Buss the son, the guys in Memphis and Atlanta whose names escape me). They have a GM with no substantive managerial experience that I know of. They have a tempermental star, surrounded by a roster with little talent. What a shock that this mixture implodes.

Rams Fanny · Post by **Rams Fanny** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:27 am

Maybe the Kings should just trade Cousins to Cleveland for Love and then Lebron can coach him up.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:27 pm

Looks like DeAndre Jordan might be on the verge of pulling a Carlos Boozer. Or to be more technical, a reverse Carlos Boozer.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:00 pm

Sweet. Clearly there are clowns. I want to know if they will also have elephants, lion tamers, and those crazy high-wire trapeze people at this circus.

My favorite part is where the hundreds of NBA players, friends, agents, and execs are supposed to live up to the vague rules and non-binding agreements, even with gazillions of dollars at stake. That's a sure-fire recipe for fun.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:43 pm

They're all at Jordan's house, until midnight, to make him sign. This shit is hilarious on the twitter.

Ray Ratto ‏@RattoCSN 1h1 hour ago

Ray Ratto retweeted Ramona Shelburne

Griffin makes the s'mores, Rivers organizes the pillow fight, Paul finds the Twister game

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:45 pm

That Blake tweet made my life

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:53 pm

It was pretty great.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:00 pm

Blake Griffin now offering to exchange jerseys with Jordan so he'll have to take DeAndre's foul shots in the fourth quarters. Also okay with just changing his name to Jordan if that's what it takes. Still holding on to 'Blake' as that's not on the jersey.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:52 am

Such an asshole move to not even take their calls. At least give them the courtesy to tell them yourself you've had a change of heart.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:18 am

You know what, I'm starting to think Dallas may have dodged a bullet here. Certainly they'll be worse this upcoming season without Jordan, especially since he cost them a chance to pursue other impact players, but really, they were about to commit a massive chunk of cap space to a guy with a limited skill set whose success so far has been highly dependent on his current team's system and personnel. Maybe they'd be better in the short term, but flash-forward two years to when Dirk is retired and they're trying compete in the West with a team built around a guy with a 3-foot range and who has to be carefully stage-managed.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:20 am

In two years he would take up like 25% of their cap. I think it would have been a great signing for Dallas.

The Clippers are the ones with the depth problems. Watching Clippers fans on Facebook walk back their criticisms from last weekend has been awesome.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:57 am

I live for moments when fans who marry themselves to the team side, but under the guise of objective opinion, in every single situation have to navigate when the team side reverses course.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:00 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:You know what, I'm starting to think Dallas may have dodged a bullet here. Certainly they'll be worse this upcoming season without Jordan, especially since he cost them a chance to pursue other impact players, but really, they were about to commit a massive chunk of cap space to a guy with a limited skill set whose success so far has been highly dependent on his current team's system and personnel. Maybe they'd be better in the short term, but flash-forward two years to when Dirk is retired and they're trying compete in the West with a team built around a guy with a 3-foot range and who has to be carefully stage-managed.

Part of the reason I'm upset about this!

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:02 am

Gunpowder wrote:Watching Clippers fans on Facebook walk back their criticisms from last weekend has been awesome.

Both of them?

I'm working up a healthy hatred for the Clips.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:09 am

Far as im concerned, you can never really go wrong signing a top tier defensive post, especially one that can run the court. Thats exactly what you can build around. You can find a big stiff to jump shoot if youre scheme wants to go big and you can go get a scoring 4 if you go smaller. Both of those types are available pretty readily.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:17 am

Giff wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:You know what, I'm starting to think Dallas may have dodged a bullet here. Certainly they'll be worse this upcoming season without Jordan, especially since he cost them a chance to pursue other impact players, but really, they were about to commit a massive chunk of cap space to a guy with a limited skill set whose success so far has been highly dependent on his current team's system and personnel. Maybe they'd be better in the short term, but flash-forward two years to when Dirk is retired and they're trying compete in the West with a team built around a guy with a 3-foot range and who has to be carefully stage-managed.
Part of the reason I'm upset about this!

Please, there's no way you'd rather they sign Jordan. Houston dunked all over that team and ran them off the court.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:36 am

Gunpowder wrote:
Giff wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:You know what, I'm starting to think Dallas may have dodged a bullet here. Certainly they'll be worse this upcoming season without Jordan, especially since he cost them a chance to pursue other impact players, but really, they were about to commit a massive chunk of cap space to a guy with a limited skill set whose success so far has been highly dependent on his current team's system and personnel. Maybe they'd be better in the short term, but flash-forward two years to when Dirk is retired and they're trying compete in the West with a team built around a guy with a 3-foot range and who has to be carefully stage-managed.
Part of the reason I'm upset about this!

Please, there's no way you'd rather they sign Jordan. Houston dunked all over that team and ran them off the court.

Mavs improvement to still non-contender status > Clippers being completely removed from contender status. And now they have money to throw at Josh Smith if they want, so definitely a lose-lose for Rockets fans.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:42 am

Giff wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
Giff wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:You know what, I'm starting to think Dallas may have dodged a bullet here. Certainly they'll be worse this upcoming season without Jordan, especially since he cost them a chance to pursue other impact players, but really, they were about to commit a massive chunk of cap space to a guy with a limited skill set whose success so far has been highly dependent on his current team's system and personnel. Maybe they'd be better in the short term, but flash-forward two years to when Dirk is retired and they're trying compete in the West with a team built around a guy with a 3-foot range and who has to be carefully stage-managed.
Part of the reason I'm upset about this!

Please, there's no way you'd rather they sign Jordan. Houston dunked all over that team and ran them off the court.
Mavs improvement to still non-contender status > Clippers being completely removed from contender status. And now they have money to throw at Josh Smith if they want, so definitely a lose-lose for Rockets fans.

Ahhh. Yeah from a Clips standpoint I get that.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:32 pm

Justin Anderson is off to a pretty good start on Dallas's summer league team.

https://vine.co/v/er51wTeMWuH

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:12 am

Josh Smith a Clipper. That is just perfect.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:20 am

Its funny that, for all the shit NBA players get from the general public, they're by far the most unselfish in terms of passing up more money.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:26 am

howard wrote:Josh Smith a Clipper. That is just perfect.

Needs a 2,000-word DC47 think piece, stat.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:17 pm

I was perfectly content the moment Josh Smith left Detroit. It was a sign that the roster was going to be torn down, which was years in coming. And I would not have to watch what I had been watching.

Though perhaps I did get a tiny bit of added comfort when he signed with another team and was safely out of Detroit's reach.

Josh Smith is not simply a bad player. He's a mediocre player when -- and this has been rare -- the team and coach around him somehow cause him to reign in the outside shots and he plays with energy. And he has to play against PFs.

It was clear that this couldn't happen in Detroit. And paying him umpteen gazillion, and then running the offense through him much of the time, was a nightly demonstration of low basketball IQ and managerial insanity.

For minimum money on a short-term deal, with a powerful superstar point-guard and coach, and surrounded by veteran players, Josh Smith is a smart move. If he will 'get it' anywhere, he will get it with the Clippers. It's a low-commitment, medium-upside thing. I root for Smith to make it work.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:14 am

So Becky Hammon was the head coach of the summer league Spurs team that just won the title. Women now undefeated in championship opportunities at the NBA level.

So what's the O/U on when or if she actually gets a head coaching spot? I think her best shot is probably when Pop hangs it up, IMO.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:12 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:The "snake in the grass" tweets are hilarious as a long-running gag on Twitter from NBA players who hate Karl - Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala, JR Smith, and Ty Lawson. Add Cousins and that is a formidable starting five, just need to fill out the bench. And emojis made Boogie's the best:

Bump.

While he deleted the tweet, you can add Seth Curry to the list.

Article has the added bonus or reports of Kings management trying to convince George Karl to retire so they don't have to pay him an extra $10 million after this season. I mention that due to the upthread mention of the disaster zone that is Sacramento's front office.