The Swamp

The idea that it's somehow worse for people to get murdered in a place of worship than say at a concert or a nightclub is not only bullshit but morally reprehensible.

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:16 am The idea that it's somehow worse for people to get murdered in a place of worship than say at a concert or a nightclub is not only bullshit but morally reprehensible.

Is it also morally reprehensible that ICE will arrest undocumented immigrants pretty much everywhere *except* a place of worship?

Let me try that again - is it morally reprehensible that ICE will refrain from arresting undocumented immigrants in a place of worship, when they won't refrain from arresting them elsewhere?

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:16 am The idea that it's somehow worse for people to get murdered in a place of worship than say at a concert or a nightclub is not only bullshit but morally reprehensible.

How so? It's obviously horrible for anyone to be murdered anywhere, but if a person of faith is murdered specifically because of that faith in a place that is supposed to be spiritually holy for them, that's worse than being murdered in a Burger King bathroom.

You could say the same thing about someone being murdered in their own home. I think it's a fair statement that it's worse for someone to be murdered in their bed as they sleep than it would be for them to be shot sitting at a slot machine in Atlantic City. You have an expectation of safety in your own home that you don't have in public.

Also, "morally reprehensible"? Save some of your outrage for the fucking murderer, bro.

Agree with what Brian said and also think it’s understandable that people are particularly troubled by events like the Tree of Life and Christchurch massacres when some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

I think I know where Jerloma's coming from.

It's similar to how I feel about police officers getting a pass on things (I'm talking about everything, all the way down to things like a free slice of pizza).

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:35 pm I think I know where Jerloma's coming from.

It's similar to how I feel about police officers getting a pass on things (I'm talking about everything, all the way down to things like a free slice of pizza).

I know where he's coming from too but "morally reprehensible" is a bit much, even for him.

If you say that it's a greater tragedy for someone to be blindly murdered due to the activity or the place they happen to be in at he time of their murder, you're placing a higher value on someone's life simply based on those things. Not their character. Not their actions throughout their life. Just because of what they were doing at the time they were killed.

If it's just a greater tragedy because you'd have a greater expectation of being murdered in a burger king bathroom than a church...it's an irrational expectation. The numbers don't add up. That's not really morally reprehensible, but kind of dumb. As Joe pointed out...

some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

...and yet we still "expect' churches to be safe harbors?

Maths.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:54 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:16 am The idea that it's somehow worse for people to get murdered in a place of worship than say at a concert or a nightclub is not only bullshit but morally reprehensible.

Is it also morally reprehensible that ICE will arrest undocumented immigrants pretty much everywhere *except* a place of worship?

Let me try that again - is it morally reprehensible that ICE will refrain from arresting undocumented immigrants in a place of worship, when they won't refrain from arresting them elsewhere?

Yes?

Just really not something I care to even debate, really.

Really REALLY down the list of shit to give a shit about.

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:55 pm If you say that it's a greater tragedy for someone to be blindly murdered due to the activity or the place they happen to be in at he time of their murder, you're placing a higher value on someone's life simply based on those things. Not their character. Not their actions throughout their life. Just because of what they were doing at the time they were killed.

If it's just a greater tragedy because you'd have a greater expectation of being murdered in a burger king bathroom than a church...it's an irrational expectation. The numbers don't add up. That's not really morally reprehensible, but kind of dumb. As Joe pointed out...

some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

...and yet we still "expect' churches to be safe harbors?

Maths.

I think it is worse, because they were targeted because of their identity. Same way I think it's worse if a gunman specifically targets a gay nightclub. It's the difference between a terrorist act and a hate crime vs a random shooting. In addition to the victims in the building, the attack is an attack on all Muslims, homosexuals, Jews, or whatever group is targeted. I don't value the lives of those shot more because they were Muslim or in a Mosque, but I think it's more significant, because it was an act of hate against Muslims, and it injures all Muslims.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:50 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:55 pm If you say that it's a greater tragedy for someone to be blindly murdered due to the activity or the place they happen to be in at he time of their murder, you're placing a higher value on someone's life simply based on those things. Not their character. Not their actions throughout their life. Just because of what they were doing at the time they were killed.

If it's just a greater tragedy because you'd have a greater expectation of being murdered in a burger king bathroom than a church...it's an irrational expectation. The numbers don't add up. That's not really morally reprehensible, but kind of dumb. As Joe pointed out...

some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

...and yet we still "expect' churches to be safe harbors?

Maths.

I think it is worse, because they were targeted because of their identity. Same way I think it's worse if a gunman specifically targets a gay nightclub. It's the difference between a terrorist act and a hate crime vs a random shooting. In addition to the victims in the building, the attack is an attack on all Muslims, homosexuals, Jews, or whatever group is targeted. I don't value the lives of those shot more because they were Muslim or in a Mosque, but I think it's more significant, because it was an act of hate against Muslims, and it injures all Muslims.

Perfectly stated.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:50 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:55 pm If you say that it's a greater tragedy for someone to be blindly murdered due to the activity or the place they happen to be in at he time of their murder, you're placing a higher value on someone's life simply based on those things. Not their character. Not their actions throughout their life. Just because of what they were doing at the time they were killed.

If it's just a greater tragedy because you'd have a greater expectation of being murdered in a burger king bathroom than a church...it's an irrational expectation. The numbers don't add up. That's not really morally reprehensible, but kind of dumb. As Joe pointed out...

some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

...and yet we still "expect' churches to be safe harbors?

Maths.

I think it is worse, because they were targeted because of their identity. Same way I think it's worse if a gunman specifically targets a gay nightclub. It's the difference between a terrorist act and a hate crime vs a random shooting. In addition to the victims in the building, the attack is an attack on all Muslims, homosexuals, Jews, or whatever group is targeted. I don't value the lives of those shot more because they were Muslim or in a Mosque, but I think it's more significant, because it was an act of hate against Muslims, and it injures all Muslims.

Yeah, that's actually well done. I'll give it to ya.

(Climbs down from high horse)

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:42 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:50 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:55 pm If you say that it's a greater tragedy for someone to be blindly murdered due to the activity or the place they happen to be in at he time of their murder, you're placing a higher value on someone's life simply based on those things. Not their character. Not their actions throughout their life. Just because of what they were doing at the time they were killed.

If it's just a greater tragedy because you'd have a greater expectation of being murdered in a burger king bathroom than a church...it's an irrational expectation. The numbers don't add up. That's not really morally reprehensible, but kind of dumb. As Joe pointed out...

some of the worst atrocities of the 20th and 21st Centuries have been directed at vulnerable religious minorities.

...and yet we still "expect' churches to be safe harbors?

Maths.

I think it is worse, because they were targeted because of their identity. Same way I think it's worse if a gunman specifically targets a gay nightclub. It's the difference between a terrorist act and a hate crime vs a random shooting. In addition to the victims in the building, the attack is an attack on all Muslims, homosexuals, Jews, or whatever group is targeted. I don't value the lives of those shot more because they were Muslim or in a Mosque, but I think it's more significant, because it was an act of hate against Muslims, and it injures all Muslims.

Yeah, that's actually well done. I'll give it to ya.

(Climbs down from high horse)

I do know what you were getting at, and if the debate was Mosque vs Halal restaurant, the general public would say the Mosque was so much worse because they were praying, and you could make a strong argument that the restaurant was equivalent, because it doesn't matter that they were praying.

Respect, J-lo.

This is a weird fucking corner of the internet, man. People agreeing to disagree and ceding to valid points.

Bunch of fucking weirdos.

If it wasn't a fucking tragedy the power that the NRA and the GOP wields, this would almost be comical. This country is so fucked.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:07 am If it wasn't a fucking tragedy the power that the NRA and the GOP wields, this would almost be comical. This country is so fucked.

Holy fuck. Reading further tweets, teachers stood outside the room listening to screams from the teachers in the room, and then the next 4 were brought in and injured. Fucking weird. How does crouching and getting shot with a pellet or paint gun or whatever they used help anyone? They should bring back the 1950s nuclear bomb drills of duck and cover under the desk, then detonate a bomb in the room so teachers can get the full experience.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:07 am If it wasn't a fucking tragedy the power that the NRA and the GOP wields, this would almost be comical. This country is so fucked.

HOO HOO HOO, HOOSIERS!

Fuck me.

This sounds wildly expensive for the district.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:01 am This sounds wildly expensive for the district.

i think the "projectiles" can be reloaded into the nerf guns and reused

WTF...I read the thread and could not figure out what district.

I know I posted the story about my wife's experience in an "active shooter" drill. It didn't deal with a shooter, but someone that was able to get past the office and into the school without authorization.

It really has scarred her. She has always been a bit skeptical of people, but now she is even more so. It affects her when in crowds or when she sees someone with a backpack that looks slightly suspicious. The whole scenario had the whole school shook. Kids were crying. Teachers were scared out of their minds. I still think the union should have filed suit because it was not processed through them or even the administration.

If you don't know the story, I will find it on here.

Parkland shooting survivor Sydney Aiello takes her own life

Fuck. That's awful.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:50 pm Parkland shooting survivor Sydney Aiello takes her own life

Fuck. That's awful.

Fucking hell, that makes me so sad and angry. And I feel horrible for her parents, I can't imagine the grief, guilt and second guessing...

Gilroy Garlic Festival

Four dead and fifteen injured.

...Paz said he was about 80 feet away from the shooter, who he described as being in his 30s and armed with a rapid-fire, assault rifle. “He came ready to shoot because he was wearing a protective vest,” Paz said. “He was shooting left; he was shooting right without any particular aim...

One was a 6 year old boy. Fucking awful.

I remember going there as a kid when I lived in Salinas. It was awesome. So that shocked me to read yesterday.

El Paso this time. Chrissakes.

Bet anything it’s a right-wing anti-Hispanic nutter.

...and it appears that I'm right. This guy allegedly posted a manifesto on 8chan before the shooting.

If you want to read it. https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e1363 ... d39934.pdf

And inevitably, the murderer is a white Christian.

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:11 pm If you want to read it. https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e1363 ... d39934.pdf

My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news. Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.

Uh huh.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:31 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:11 pm If you want to read it. https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e1363 ... d39934.pdf

My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news. Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.

Uh huh.

Kills 20 people, but bitches about the unfair media.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:35 pm

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:31 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:11 pm If you want to read it. https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e1363 ... d39934.pdf

My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news. Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.

Uh huh.

Kills 20 people, but bitches about the unfair media.

Attempted to drag other candidates into the mix to further normalize Trump, too.

And for the record, fuck yes Trump deserves his share of the blame. You know, an amount commensurate to a world leader who emboldens angry young people to take up arms for their oppressed white brothers.

It's such a sad point in time.

He’s right that the Republican rhetoric and racism towards Latinos and Muslims pre-dates Trump but that sure as hell doesn’t absolve Trump and it fucking goddamned sure doesn’t absolve the Republican Party.

Radical white terrorist who drove to majority Latino El Paso on back to school tax free weekend to shoot up a Wal-Mart.

Fucking hell, the planning.

ETA:

'Murica

Another in Ohio. Yeah America!

More than worried now. We know who largely has the guns - the only check on them is the government - and we know what the current government is.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:11 pm 'Murica

From The Post:

Walmart is one of the largest gun retailers in the world and has been under pressure to curtail firearms sales.

Last year, the store announced that it was changing the minimum age required to buy a firearm or ammunition at Walmart from 18 to 21 “in light of recent events,” according to a statement by the company. The decision came two weeks after the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., that left 17 people dead.

... and add Dayton to the list. Nine dead, 26 injured, and the shooter was killed less than a minute after the shooting started.

But yeah, I'm sure a high-capacity magazine for this rifle wasn't a factor in 35 people being dead or injured in less than a minute.

I used to work in an office about two blocks from where this attack occurred a little more than 20 years ago. When I was there, it was a depressed area that was slowly being revitalized. Now it's full of bars and restaurants and probably was very busy at the time of the shooting.

And now I have to worry about whether the folks I know in Dayton are dead or injured. Fuck, this sucks.