Jeeves is too specific for Getting the Spins

[BSF21]

Anyone of you fucking hipsters out there have experience with vinyl/turntable setups?

BSFGF just got me a really nice turntable for my birthday and I've not the slightest clue of where to start. I like listening to records. I'm going to like having this in our front room/sitting area. I've done some basic research. Where would one start with getting some basic powered speakers that aren't going to break the bank? My knowledge of audio is "sounds good" or "sounds like dogshit", so I'm not overly concerned about quality, though I'd like them to sound nice and be able to fill up the front of my house when have the records on.

Anyone out there?

[A_B]

I think Howard still spins the vinyl.

[P.D.X.]

Anyone of you fucking hipsters out there have experience with vinyl/turntable setups?

BSFGF just got me a really nice turntable for my birthday and I've not the slightest clue of where to start. I like listening to records. I'm going to like having this in our front room/sitting area. I've done some basic research. Where would one start with getting some basic powered speakers that aren't going to break the bank? My knowledge of audio is "sounds good" or "sounds like dogshit", so I'm not overly concerned about quality, though I'd like them to sound nice and be able to fill up the front of my house when have the records on.

Anyone out there?

What table did you get?

What's your budget for amplification/speakers?

[govmentchedda]

I've been in the market for a set up for a while. I've been told repeatedly to go to pawn shops for everything. All you need is amp/receiver, speakers, turntable, and records.

[P.D.X.]

I've been in the market for a set up for a while. I've been told repeatedly to go to pawn shops for everything. All you need is amp/receiver, speakers, turntable, and records.

If you're gonna go the cheap route, I'd recommend a store that sells refurbished equipment. At least then you have recourse if something doesn't work, not to mention someone who knows their stuff helping you put together a set-up. You can definitely gat more bang for the buck buying hi-fi gear used, but I wouldn't recommend just getting whatever from a pawn shop.

[P.D.X.]

Lots of good info in this thread:

http://boards.vinylcollective.com/topic/88504-beginner" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;’s-guide-to-turntables-hi–fi-read-1st-page-before-posting-new-threads-basic-questions/

[BSF21]

Anyone of you fucking hipsters out there have experience with vinyl/turntable setups?

BSFGF just got me a really nice turntable for my birthday and I've not the slightest clue of where to start. I like listening to records. I'm going to like having this in our front room/sitting area. I've done some basic research. Where would one start with getting some basic powered speakers that aren't going to break the bank? My knowledge of audio is "sounds good" or "sounds like dogshit", so I'm not overly concerned about quality, though I'd like them to sound nice and be able to fill up the front of my house when have the records on.

Anyone out there?

What table did you get?

What's your budget for amplification/speakers?

This bad boy is currently still boxed up in my office.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/turnt ... 3a8662772/

No hard budget. Just don't want to go way down the rabbit hole and not get enjoyment out of it. If I have to drop a couple hundred on speakers I will, but I tend to look at everything from opportunity cost perspective. Can I get by on 100$ speakers? It is silly to even buy them at all if I can't afford 500$ speakers? I'm lost.

[howard]

Rather than powered speakers, I would suggest an old timey (or brand new) receiver or amplifier that has phonograph inputs.

Traditionally, the speakers were unpowered, as was the turntable; the signal from the turntable was very weak, and needed to be amplified before being sent to the speakers. Your new turntable may send a signal strong enough for powered speakers to accept, it may have a built-in amplifier, I don't know.

About five years ago I was going to spend a bunch of money on new sound gear. Instead, I discovered a whole world of vintage and refurbished stereo equipment, and instead I started accumulating gear from the 70s and 80s. On Ebay and some specialty sites, lots of gear at reasonable prices. You could match your turntable with an amplifier and pair of speakers that would sound dynamite for under $500. A couple Christmases ago a friend's teenage daughter dug out his old turntable. I got her this setup, currently on Ebay for $355 including shipping:





http://www.ebay.com/itm/70s-PIONEER-SX- ... SwUV9WmQZy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-SMALLER-ADV ... Sw585WUSia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[P.D.X.]

I've had that table. It has a built-in pre-amp, which means you can just plug it into any receiver input (doesn't have to be marked "phono"). Do you have a receiver or are you pretty much starting from scratch?

[govmentchedda]

Is that the turntable that's being reintroduced into the market that everyone was raving about a few weeks back?

[BSF21]

I've had that table. It has a built-in pre-amp, which means you can just plug it into any receiver input (doesn't have to be marked "phono"). Do you have a receiver or are you pretty much starting from scratch?

I literally have just the turntable.

From what I'm reading, I need a receiver and non-powered speakers, but a powered-speaker setup eliminates the need for a receiver because of the pre-amp that's in the turntable itself?

[P.D.X.]

Is that the turntable that's being reintroduced into the market that everyone was raving about a few weeks back?

You're probably thinking of this.

[govmentchedda]

Yep, that's the one.

[P.D.X.]

I've had that table. It has a built-in pre-amp, which means you can just plug it into any receiver input (doesn't have to be marked "phono"). Do you have a receiver or are you pretty much starting from scratch?

I literally have just the turntable.

From what I'm reading, I need a receiver and non-powered speakers, but a powered-speaker setup eliminates the need for a receiver because of the pre-amp that's in the turntable itself?

If I were you I'd get an integrated amp (this is the "receiver") that has a phono input. ("Receiver" is the term that became popular when radio tuners became bundled in with the amplifiers. If you don't need a radio tuner, stick with a pure amplifier.)

You don't need the phono input for your particular table, but I'd recommend it anyway because a) the pre-amp in that table isn't considered the highest quality and you can get better sound by turning it off {there's a switch for that} or removing it altogether {people do this – there's youtube videos} and b) if you get into vinyl more, you're going to want to upgrade your table at some point, so having an amp that already has a phono input won't mean spending more money on amplification in the future.

I have no personal experience with powered speakers but everything I've read has recommended against them unless space is such an issue that you don't have room for a stand-alone amp. Apparently the engineering compromises necessary to get amplification modules in with the speakers detracts from the overall sound quality. Again, only what I've read. I'm also not sure what options for volume control you have if plugging your TT directly into powered speakers. (And I also think if you buy powered speaks that you'll find them obsolete if you start upgrading equipment in the future.)

Virtually any integrated amplifier from the 70's would fit the bill if you go that route. There are going to be far fewer choices among modern amps if you don't want to spend a minimum of ~$500. I have a '73 Sansui that sounds golden and only cost me ~$200.

I'm not going to be much help speaker-wise, but I'd stay away from Bose. You could probably get some new Klipsch, Polk, or Wharfdale bookshelf speakers without breaking the bank (check Amazon). Vintage, speakers are probably the lowest risk among the other equipment in your chain, and I wouldn't hesitate to check 2nd-hand stores and craigslist for some. Of course, being able to listen to any before you buy them will tell you everything you need to know.

[Shirley]

Old equipment is fine, but for speakers? They decay with age, so I'd be careful with that.

[sancarlos]

Old equipment and new equipment aren't always compatible, so
A) if you have a new amplifier, make sure it has specific jacks for a turntable.
B) if you use an old amplifier, make sure it has suitable jacks for your modern speakers.

[howard]

Old equipment is fine, but for speakers? They decay with age, so I'd be careful with that.

Refurbishing old speakers is pretty cheap and easy, and many sellers do refurbish them. But many sellers do not. Yes, be careful.

[TT2.0]

I've had that table. It has a built-in pre-amp, which means you can just plug it into any receiver input (doesn't have to be marked "phono"). Do you have a receiver or are you pretty much starting from scratch?

I literally have just the turntable.

From what I'm reading, I need a receiver and non-powered speakers, but a powered-speaker setup eliminates the need for a receiver because of the pre-amp that's in the turntable itself?

If I were you I'd get an integrated amp (this is the "receiver") that has a phono input. ("Receiver" is the term that became popular when radio tuners became bundled in with the amplifiers. If you don't need a radio tuner, stick with a pure amplifier.)

You don't need the phono input for your particular table, but I'd recommend it anyway because a) the pre-amp in that table isn't considered the highest quality and you can get better sound by turning it off {there's a switch for that} or removing it altogether {people do this – there's youtube videos} and b) if you get into vinyl more, you're going to want to upgrade your table at some point, so having an amp that already has a phono input won't mean spending more money on amplification in the future.

I have no personal experience with powered speakers but everything I've read has recommended against them unless space is such an issue that you don't have room for a stand-alone amp. Apparently the engineering compromises necessary to get amplification modules in with the speakers detracts from the overall sound quality. Again, only what I've read. I'm also not sure what options for volume control you have if plugging your TT directly into powered speakers. (And I also think if you buy powered speaks that you'll find them obsolete if you start upgrading equipment in the future.)

Virtually any integrated amplifier from the 70's would fit the bill if you go that route. There are going to be far fewer choices among modern amps if you don't want to spend a minimum of ~$500. I have a '73 Sansui that sounds golden and only cost me ~$200.

I'm not going to be much help speaker-wise, but I'd stay away from Bose. You could probably get some new Klipsch, Polk, or Wharfdale bookshelf speakers without breaking the bank (check Amazon). Vintage, speakers are probably the lowest risk among the other equipment in your chain, and I wouldn't hesitate to check 2nd-hand stores and craigslist for some. Of course, being able to listen to any before you buy them will tell you everything you need to know.

This kills the TT

[DC47]

If I correctly understand the level of your interest in audio quality and cost constraints, I suggest seriously considering a powered speaker system. These are speakers with a built-in amp.

The Audioengine models A2+ and A5+ can be purchased used on e-bay for 20-40% less than the company's list prices -- which are already very reasonable and allow for a 30 day free trial if you buy from them or their dealers.

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Powered-Speaker-Systems

I believe that since you already have a built-in pre-amp in your turntable, you should be able to cable directly to an input in the Audioengine speaker containing the amp. That's all you need to run your turntable. And I think you get a remote to boot.

However, many good powered-speakers will also allow you to run the speakers directly from digital devices including computers, iDevices and TVs and get surprisingly good sound fidelity. A digital-to-analog converter (DAC) is required to convert a digital signal (e.g., MP3, Apple Loss-less tracks) to an analog signal that an amp can put out of a speaker as (analog) sound waves. And sadly many digital devices have weak DACs that cripple sound quality. Having speakers that incorporate an amp and also an adequate DAC -- as the Audioengine models do -- means a poor quality DAC can be replaced in the sound chain by a better one. This may be of value right now if you want to use digital sources in addition to a turntable on the front end of your audio system. But even moreso, this offeres flexibility if your audio interests change over time. Neither digital sources nor analog speakers are going away any time soon, so the DAC function -- somewhere in the sound chain -- is going to remain useful.

Here's a small tangent that might clear up some confusion on the DAC topic. CD players are obviously digital sources. Yet they work great when plugged into analog stereo gear (e.g., receivers), with no visible DAC. But this is only because all but high-end CD playing units have embedded DACs. The DAC aspect is invisible to most users as there are no buttons or lights with that label. The exception is with high-end gear, where the CD playing function may even be split into two separate boxes -- a CD transport and controller and a DAC.

Note also that if you want high-quality sound output for headphones in addition to speakers, you need to consider this too in buying your gear. This is simple with 'traditional' stereo system set-ups or with digital devices with relatively low audio quality (computers, iDevices). But less so in other types of systems, including some with powered speakers and turntables with pre-amps.

My recommendation assumes that I'm right about the specific cable options out from your particular turntable/pre-amp and in to the Audioengine, which you should confirm. Further, you should determine exactly where you want to set up each piece of equipment. If the cable distances are too long, you will need to buy different cables to replace or extend what you get with the gear. This is not always cheap, given how little you want to spend. Specific details matter.

If the specifics of equipment position, cabling, headphone capability work for you, then with the Audioengine powered speakers you can get sound quality at a rough level of "6.5" (A2+) to "8" (A5+), where a "10" is roughly what you'd get with a $400 amp and $800 speaker set-up. Obviously you can spend far more than another $1200 and get far higher than a "10" level of sound quality. I'm using this particular "10" as an anchor to the scale because it's the kind of stereo gear you can commonly listen to at a mid-level stereo shop (e.g, Best Buy) or perhaps a friend's house. If a "10" system sounds amazing to you, then you might be quite content with spending far less to get something that is still quite good. Too, Audioengine has dealers, so in many places you can hear them live and compare them to other options in the store.

In reality, there are many people -- perhaps most -- who cannot reliably distinguish between a system with A5+ (or even A2+) speakers and a system with $2-3K into an amp and speakers, when the system is driven by your particular turntable and with many types of vinyl recordings. Or the slight difference they hear may not matter enough to them to justify spending more on an audio system. If that's you, you're in luck!

At least until that fateful weekend when you are obsessively listening to the Allman Brothers' Fillmore East album in order to pick out the differences between the harmonic overtones coming from the guitars of Dickey and Duane. Then you're on your way to chasing the dragon of audio fidelity to where at least one zero gets added to your equipment cost in order to hear -- or do you really? -- what you are looking for.

There are good deals on Audioengines said to be lightly used. This is a nice compromise between new gear that is more likely to last longer before requiring work, and hoping-praying that '70s-80s ("Golden") era audio gear will work for a long time. This is especially true if you are not very technical, or not interested in finding a place that will work on old gear at a reasonable price (impossible for 80%+ of the USA).

Personally, I mix '70s gear with 2000s gear. But I've had to toss pre-2000s gear over the years, and I'm slightly willing to get my hands dirty under the hood. In my experience, repairs can be a bit harder than most say. For example, just getting the screws out of the back of my '70s Bozaks creates a significant risk of wrecking a speaker enclosure. And one wrong touch to a speaker diaphragm will yield 50-pound matching paper-weights.

There are several makers of good powered speakers. I mention Audioengine because they sound very good (see reviews), they can be ordered direct (that is, you don't have to find a dealer), and they are both reasonably priced when new and are often sold for a fair price on e-bay. The A2+ and A5+ models seem to best fit your cost criteria.

[P.D.X.]

Must-read article for anyone putting together a first-time set-up.

How can 30-year-old receivers sound better than new ones?

Every year receiver manufacturers pay out more and more money (in the form of royalties and licensing fees) to Apple, Audyssey, Bluetooth, HD Radio, XM-Sirius, Dolby, DTS and other companies, and those dollars consume an ever bigger chunk of the design budget. The engineers have to make do with whatever is left to make the receiver sound good. Retail prices of receivers, the ones that sell in big numbers, never go up. The $300 to $500 models are where most of the sales action is, just like 10, 20 or 30 years ago, when their $300 to $500 models weren't packed to the gills with the features I just listed. Something's got to go, and sound quality usually takes the hit.

Although the article is a bit "flawed" in that it only addresses receivers (modern 2-channel amplifiers easily compete with vintage equipment), but the real take away is: don't buy a 5.1 all-in-one A/V receiver from Best Buy or wherever and expect quality sound from your vinyl. (A trap I fell into when a noob.)