VVVRROOOMM Auto Racing Thread (NASCAR, F1, etc)

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:05 am

That's awesome! Where'd she watch the race from? I'm likely getting tickets for Miami next year, and I can't figure out where to sit.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:56 am

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:05 am That's awesome! Where'd she watch the race from? I'm likely getting tickets for Miami next year, and I can't figure out where to sit.

She sat at T18. She originally was looking at a spot closer to, or in the grand stand and she said she was very glad not to be there, because you really only saw limited view from that spot.

I guess what I'm saying is that she liked to be in a spot where you can see more of the overall track.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:54 pm

yeah that was a main reason we sat in T12 for the NASCAR race and not on the frontstretch. you hardly see anything at all from that side of the track.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:56 pm

I suppose the tower is the best spot at COTA, but ideally I'd like to either be across from pit lane, or at a spot where you'd see overtakes, or in the shade.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:59 pm

being across from pit lane is very overrated

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:32 pm

Whycome?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:48 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:59 pm being across from pit lane is very overrated

Does Liberty still sponsor a car in NASCAR, Bronto? If so, time to get your Moskovitz on and ask why!

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:19 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:32 pm Whycome?

simply from the action standpoint. much more of the race to be seen from a part of the track where multiple corners are visible than a section of grandstands where you see pit stops and then a straight line part of the track

same principle applies at a place like Indianapolis that doesn't have grandstand views of the whole track. more fun to sit in a turn and have them coming at you (and see more of the track) than at start finish

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:17 am

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:19 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:32 pm Whycome?
simply from the action standpoint. much more of the race to be seen from a part of the track where multiple corners are visible than a section of grandstands where you see pit stops and then a straight line part of the track

same principle applies at a place like Indianapolis that doesn't have grandstand views of the whole track. more fun to sit in a turn and have them coming at you (and see more of the track) than at start finish

This conversation is the reason short-track NASCAR (Bristol, Richmond) is the greatest for in stadium experience for racin'.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:36 am

I'm still only about 40 laps into this weekend's race, but I kind of feel like this was what I was expecting when I started watching F1 this year. Lots of "racing", more pit stops than normal F1 races, big crowds. It's been a good first 2/3 of the race.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Hamilton is disqualified from qualifying over a rear-wing infringement

Must start sprint from back of grid

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:10 pm

it's funny how controversial it is to say that Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:12 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:10 pm it's funny how controversial it is to say that Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world

He is very good. But best in the world? Hard to say because of how much benefit he gets from having the strongest team in the world. (I am a much better soccer coach when I have better players). It is a reasonable argument, maybe even scientifically measurable at this point. But put the man in a early 90 IROC trans am and lets see him show it on the track.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:07 pm

the best drivers in the world get the best equipment in the world because they're the best -- not one single person is picking a driver in a shitbox car as the best driver in the world

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:17 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:07 pm the best drivers in the world get the best equipment in the world because they're the best -- not one single person is picking a driver in a shitbox car as the best driver in the world

Of course..my reference to IROC was not about the particular car. The point of the IROC, Race of Champions, Superstar Racing Experience and such was to put drivers in equal cars and see who is the best. None of them really every figured out how to do it, but guessing with today's virtual racing rigs they could answer this question in a cost effective way...and have Twitch pay for it.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:58 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:17 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:07 pm the best drivers in the world get the best equipment in the world because they're the best -- not one single person is picking a driver in a shitbox car as the best driver in the world
Of course..my reference to IROC was not about the particular car. The point of the IROC, Race of Champions, Superstar Racing Experience and such was to put drivers in equal cars and see who is the best. None of them really every figured out how to do it, but guessing with today's virtual racing rigs they could answer this question in a cost effective way...and have Twitch pay for it.

the bolded part lasted less than a season in NASCAR FWIW

also, it's absolutely hilarious to see the most successful driver of all time -- by every benchmark -- in the prime of his career in the pre-eminent motorsport series in the world get "well actuallyed" like this.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:27 am

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:58 am
wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:17 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:07 pm the best drivers in the world get the best equipment in the world because they're the best -- not one single person is picking a driver in a shitbox car as the best driver in the world
Of course..my reference to IROC was not about the particular car. The point of the IROC, Race of Champions, Superstar Racing Experience and such was to put drivers in equal cars and see who is the best. None of them really every figured out how to do it, but guessing with today's virtual racing rigs they could answer this question in a cost effective way...and have Twitch pay for it.
the bolded part lasted less than a season in NASCAR FWIW

also, it's absolutely hilarious to see the most successful driver of all time -- by every benchmark -- in the prime of his career in the pre-eminent motorsport series in the world get "well actuallyed" like this.

He is amazing..but in any sport where the tools are not equally available it allows the question to be asked. I mean take the Nike Vaporfly problem. Sure the Nike athletes were the greatest runners, but had an advantage due to the tools. But with Vaporfly the sponsors of other runners said...yeah go ahead and run in them so you can compete with the same tech. But Mercedes is not allowing others to drive their cars against him.

I am trying to think of other sports that have this level of competitive advantage. Golf, cycling, and tennis come to mind..but once again I can go buy those tools in the open market to compete. Maybe the best comparison is IT/AI/Advanced stats is sports.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:30 am

lol, yes, I know mechanical advantages exist in racing

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:53 pm

I think wlu is just coming from the place a lot of people are in the hybrid-turbo era where clearly Mercedes figured out some fundamental issues that others just didn't. The Mercedes domination makes people question things.

To me, though, it's like questioning Tom Brady, laying all the success on the genius of Belichek.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:11 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:53 pm I think wlu is just coming from the place a lot of people are in the hybrid-turbo era where clearly Mercedes figured out some fundamental issues that others just didn't. The Mercedes domination makes people question things.

Michael Schumacher won five consecutive titles with Ferrari (Lewis is currently at 4). No one questions his credentials because Ferrari was so good.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:14 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:11 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:53 pm I think wlu is just coming from the place a lot of people are in the hybrid-turbo era where clearly Mercedes figured out some fundamental issues that others just didn't. The Mercedes domination makes people question things.
Michael Schumacher won five consecutive titles with Ferrari (Lewis is currently at 4). No one questions his credentials because Ferrari was so good.

Oh, yeah. I know the subtext and it's certainly problematic.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:19 pm

then color me perplexed why the default excuse of Mercedes dominance should get any credence

Post by **brian** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 am

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:32 am

Fuck yes

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:04 am

That's fantastic.

Post by **brian** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:07 am

Hope every country in the World Cup next year (other than Qatar) wears some kind of a rainbow patch or something like that. Fuck those assholes.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:23 am

Some driver in her day, those Group B rally cars were beasts

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ated-sport

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:34 pm

Sir Frank Williams, founder and former team principal of the Williams Racing Formula 1 team, has died aged 79.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59453378

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:30 am

Unbelievable end to a fantastic season.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:40 pm

This will end up at the CAS

serrano · Post by **serrano** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:26 am

Nick, Is there a history of the FIA making strange decisions at critical moments of races or is this something that you think is very much influenced by being on the Netflix series and making it good for TV?

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:08 pm

serrano wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:26 am Nick, Is there a history of the FIA making strange decisions at critical moments of races or is this something that you think is very much influenced by being on the Netflix series and making it good for TV?

I've been thinking about this since Sunday and I think the FIA would be well-served to do an explainer of sorts to help figure this out.

It's also really weird. We live in this world where the NBA issues the two-minute reports and other US sports leagues will admit after the fact that rules were/weren't followed in crucial situations in games... but we can't get that from the FIA because they legally can't admit a screwup with the Mercedes appeal going on.

I've been trying to think of a good officiating parallel in another sport. It's not like it's a blown ball or strike call or judgment call in the moment. It's a race director and crew blatantly not following two rules as written in a rush to get the race restarted.

it sucks that Red Bull is in this situation -- and that Red Bull and Horner are very good at PR and spinning their side of the story. Mercedes has an incredibly good case, but it's also worth considering the precedent that overturning the race result would set. I'm not a fan of reversing outcomes but, man, the FIA sure screwed this up. And I have no idea how or why.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:08 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:08 pm
serrano wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:26 am Nick, Is there a history of the FIA making strange decisions at critical moments of races or is this something that you think is very much influenced by being on the Netflix series and making it good for TV?
I've been thinking about this since Sunday and I think the FIA would be well-served to do an explainer of sorts to help figure this out.

It's also really weird. We live in this world where the NBA issues the two-minute reports and other US sports leagues will admit after the fact that rules were/weren't followed in crucial situations in games... but we can't get that from the FIA because they legally can't admit a screwup with the Mercedes appeal going on.

I've been trying to think of a good officiating parallel in another sport. It's not like it's a blown ball or strike call or judgment call in the moment. It's a race director and crew blatantly not following two rules as written in a rush to get the race restarted.

it sucks that Red Bull is in this situation -- and that Red Bull and Horner are very good at PR and spinning their side of the story. Mercedes has an incredibly good case, but it's also worth considering the precedent that overturning the race result would set. I'm not a fan of reversing outcomes but, man, the FIA sure screwed this up. And I have no idea how or why.

I don't have the time to go find it, but one of the articles I read stated that there were 3 clauses(sic) at play here. One was for Verstappen moving slightly ahead of Hamilton during the safety car (yellow), but they dismissed that straight off because it was a minuscule amount of time he did that and he ceded the turf prior to the actual start.

The other two had to do with when the safety car was supposed to exit. The FIA are standing by a clause that essentially gives the race stewards REALLY broad leeway to determine when the race re-starts, which supersedes the clause that talks about lapped cars and restarting after the safety car has cleared them and all that. Basically, there is a clause that says the stewards can do what they did... But it's pretty nebulous.

I, very clearly, don't really understand it all... Or more accurately, didn't really retain the full explanation. But the article seemed to think they had some legs to stand on.

=-=-=-=-=

But to serrano's original point, or the path he was down... It's really rough when a sport has ambiguity in its rules. We've all lived the multitude of ambiguity around the changes to NFL and college football over the years.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:42 am

Mercedes protested 48.8 and 48.12.

48.8 was the one immediately dismissed

With the exception of the cases listed under a) to h) below, no driver may overtake another car on the track, including the safety car, until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3) for the first time after the safety car has returned to the pits.

48.12 is the one that is a much better case because it's blatantly obvious that the rules were not followed as written

If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.

EDIT, should add the 15.3 clause that appears to be "overruling" 48.12

The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
e) The use of the safety car.

obviously that's easy to point to -- but if the race director can do anything he wants with the safety car, why do the rules exist in the first place?

that's the frustrating part of this -- and NASCAR's except in rare instances clause. there's a detailed rulebook that can just get thrown out the window because of a phrase in it whenever the race director wants to have something happen.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:19 pm

At least the Speedy Swampers title wasn't as controversial.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:16 pm

Trying to find a way to gently make fun of the grown man in the crowd wearing an M&Ms shirt and mirrored wrap around sunglasses cursing after the car with M&Ms on it was involved in a crash without sounding, I don’t know, classist or something. Anyway I don’t think anyone was hurt and I’m glad I turned on the race just prior to that.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:40 am

Now Bronto has a conflict of interest!

cerranoredux · Post by **cerranoredux** » Sun May 08, 2022 2:09 pm

Watching Martin Brundle get big timed by Venus Williams and misidentifying Patrick Mahomes live on the broadcast is just been hilarious.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sun May 08, 2022 2:47 pm

cerranoredux wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 2:09 pm Watching Martin Brundle get big timed by Venus Williams and misidentifying Patrick Mahomes live on the broadcast is just been hilarious.

That sounds hilarious, but my #1 fear with my F1 fandom is that whoever gets the rights next will try and add their own spin and abandon Sky coverage.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Sun May 29, 2022 8:57 am