The Sybian wrote:And why is a gun registry "lumping you in with criminals" but registering your vehicle isn't?
I know this is fucking old, but I'm responding anyway...
The difference that I see, is that driving a car is a privilege granted by the state whereas owning a gun is a right recognized by the constitution. So if the state make registration a condition required to be granted said privilege, that seems a valid trade-off to me.
Also, you don't have to register a car. Sure, some municipalities might require you to keep that car under a cover, in a garage, or in your back yard, but you really only need to register it if you want to be granted the privilege to drive.
Concerning those RIP bullets, I have to imagine they'll give ER docs fits. It's bad enough when a regular or hollow point happens to break up into bits as it enters the body. These fuckers are designed specifically to do that. Though, given the claims made in the video, it would seem more morticians will deal with those bits than ER docs.
Sure, you don't have to register a car, but if you get pulled over, the cops don't have to let you leave or give you your car back. In that sense, you don't have to obey any law.
That is a good distinction with the Federal Constitution, but it doesn't quite play out that way. States can still regulate gun ownership. For example, a lot of states don't allow convicted felons to own guns, or people with a history of mental health issues. The intent of the 2nd Amendment is also highly debatable, I really don't want to get into a debate on this, but a strong argument is there that the 2nd amendment was only in place because an organized military did not exist, and it was necessary for citizens to have guns for national and state defense from foreign invaders. The 2nd Amendment also doesn't grant absolute right to firearms. Laws are in place to prohibit rocket launchers, bazookas, etc... And requiring registration does not prevent you from owning a gun, it just means the gun needs to be on file.
I've wondered the same thing - where does the 2nd amendment say that felons can't own guns? Should we be defending the rights of these felons?
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
I realize that I'm a giant pussy, but if these dudes walk into Chipotle while I'm eating my burrito, I'm getting a little nervous.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Too bad I don't patronize shitpole, or I would stop eating there. Bless them that they are exercising their rights to ban guns from their establishment. Hate for anyone to be nervous.
This makes me nervous, on the street or in a restaurant. Clothes make the man, I guess:
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Sabo wrote:
There is NO need for open carry, especially when you're going to damned chain restaurant.
Commie.
Clearly. I guess I should just throw all of my firearms away since as a pinko commie liberal I'm not fit to own any. I could sell them of course, but that's not behavior befitting a commie.
I bet a lot of the people boycotting Chipotle would be equally freaked out if they were just having lunch with their kids and a guerilla conference broke out.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Some people are comforted by armed uniformed police (not me, but to each his own.) Personally, I am comforted by law-abiding citizens carrying firearms. Just me.
But being comforted by a sign (and a policy) that bars law-abiding citizens from legally carrying firearms, that I just do not understand. But it works for millions. Comfort sure substitutes for a myriad of things.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
howard wrote:
Some people are comforted by armed uniformed police (not me, but to each his own.) Personally, I am comforted by law-abiding citizens carrying firearms. Just me.
I dunno - the thought of being in close proximity to a lethal weapon doesn't comfort me in the least.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
A victim's father stated this on the news in the aftermath:
Sad. But blaming the NRA and politicians is stupid. An idiot with opportunity and a mental problem did this. You literally live in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws in America. If you have a California ID and wish to buy a gun out of state, you will not be granted one. I've personally seen this.
Ya know, living in Germany and Korea these last couple years has provided me with a unique perspective. One in which I live in an area with no worry that something like this will happen. The reason for this is clear: it's cultural. As cultural as drinking beer is at every event (I went drinking and indoor rock climbing Friday) or buying soju because it's cheaper than water. As cultural as Germany being effectively "closed" on Sunday. The only place open is the base. Every other place I can shop isn't open. Even semi-trucks aren't allowed to drive on the autobahn on Sundays. As cultural as blowing off fireworks in the middle of downtown Berlin on New Years while police officers do nothing more than direct traffic because streets are halfway closed down because...beer/wine stands are set up. As cultural as having one of the most densely populated cities on the planet be within striking distance from one the saddest, most reclusive places on earth and not giving the slightest of fucks when that neighboring leader threatens war every year.
The culture in America is greed and entitlement. *I* deserve everything because *I* have to deal with this. This is *my* right to being who *I* want to be. The sickness festers everywhere. And only the symptoms are half-heartedly treated via fierce words and dormant actions. Slacktivism, really. That's our culture. Mass shootings are a byproduct like corporate greed and people just generally only giving a shit about themselves.
Korea especially and, in some cases, Germany just don't act like that. (German customer service, on the other hand...) So this will continue and keep continuing. Fingers will be pointed at each other, the media will glorify and overreact with indignation, and nothing will change. The next big media story will come along and attract our ADD-riddled attention spans.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Johnnie wrote:That UCSB student was a whacko, huh? Apparently he was also the son of the assistant director on The Hunger Games too. Odd footnote.
A victim's father stated this on the news in the aftermath:
Sad. But blaming the NRA and politicians is stupid. An idiot with opportunity and a mental problem did this. You literally live in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws in America. If you have a California ID and wish to buy a gun out of state, you will not be granted one. I've personally seen this.
Ya know, living in Germany and Korea these last couple years has provided me with a unique perspective. One in which I live in an area with no worry that something like this will happen. The reason for this is clear: it's cultural. As cultural as drinking beer is at every event (I went drinking and indoor rock climbing Friday) or buying soju because it's cheaper than water. As cultural as Germany being effectively "closed" on Sunday. The only place open is the base. Every other place I can shop isn't open. Even semi-trucks aren't allowed to drive on the autobahn on Sundays. As cultural as blowing off fireworks in the middle of downtown Berlin on New Years while police officers do nothing more than direct traffic because streets are halfway closed down because...beer/wine stands are set up. As cultural as having one of the most densely populated cities on the planet be within striking distance from one the saddest, most reclusive places on earth and not giving the slightest of fucks when that neighboring leader threatens war every year.
The culture in America is greed and entitlement. *I* deserve everything because *I* have to deal with this. This is *my* right to being who *I* want to be. The sickness festers everywhere. And only the symptoms are half-heartedly treated via fierce words and dormant actions. Slacktivism, really. That's our culture. Mass shootings are a byproduct like corporate greed and people just generally only giving a shit about themselves.
Korea especially and, in some cases, Germany just don't act like that. (German customer service, on the other hand...) So this will continue and keep continuing. Fingers will be pointed at each other, the media will glorify and overreact with indignation, and nothing will change. The next big media story will come along and attract our ADD-riddled attention spans.
Well said, Johnnie. I think everyone should spend time submersed in another culture to get some perspective on their own. Living in Russia sure knocked any materialism I had out of my system. Made me appreciate living in US, despite all of its shortcomings, too.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
It's definitely cultural and not guns. Kids are entitled in Canada as well and we just saw a kid stab 5 University kids in Calgary last month. Who needs guns?
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
It's definitely cultural and not guns. Kids are entitled in Canada as well and we just saw a kid stab 5 University kids in Calgary last month. Who needs guns?
Yeah, but that's an anomaly, both for it occurring in Canada and for the weapon that was used.
Johnnie's post hits the nail right on the head -
That's our culture. Mass shootings are a byproduct like corporate greed and people just generally only giving a shit about themselves.
Korea especially and, in some cases, Germany just don't act like that. (German customer service, on the other hand...) So this will continue and keep continuing. Fingers will be pointed at each other, the media will glorify and overreact with indignation, and nothing will change. The next big media story will come along and attract our ADD-riddled attention spans.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
Part of me just thinks that CNN is capitalizing on his grief right now. I want to hear from the other parents too.
But you notice that he was the one that expressed a quality soundbite for the media initially, and there he goes giving them another one.
The truth is nothing will be done because too much money is at stake -- both in manufacturing (jobs) and selling (revenue) -- to ever change a cultural history and mention in our 'sacred' document.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
I have written about stuff like this in the past on the Swamp and I still don't get it....
Living in the UK and has given me a different perspective on guns. For example, the UK Olympic shooting team has to train abroad because our gun laws forbid them from doing so in the UK.
This is a cultural issue and I can never quite get my head around all the deaths that are gun related in the US.
I don't understand the need for different bullets (even after the explanation that you are trying to stop the bullet from passing through the target and hitting something behind it).
I don't understand the 'If a cop has one, I should have one' argument.
I don't understand why, if there is a culture of hunting (and possibly a need to protect livestock from animal attacks), people are allowed anything other than non self loading (I don't know the terms) hunting rifles, single and double barreled shot guns.
I don't understand the 'I need a gun at home because I might get robbed/attacked at home argument', if people were not allowed guns that they could easily conceal, this would not be as big an issue.
I was driving home from work in Bristol about 5 years ago and saw a guy walking along the pavement with what looked like a rifle holder over his shoulder. I pulled in immediately (well, out of sight of him) and called the police on my mobile as I was concerned about a guy carrying what could to be a rifle over his shoulder. The lay-by I pulled into was full, it had 3 cars in it. All of the drivers were out pacing, making the same call. I freely admit, when I saw the guy, I starting shitting myself, thinking, why the fuck would anybody carry a rifle around in public. The guy could have been carrying fishing rods, but it looked dodgy, so I made the call. Within minutes there were a lot of police cars screaming past us and on the national BBC news that night was a story about a man carrying a rifle.
This kind of stuff just does not happen over here. I love visiting the US, but your laws around gun ownership appear to be fucking mad. What is worst is that you have these mad laws and like every country in the world, you have some mad people living there. Mad people and guns, mean mad people with guns (or so it appears from over the pond).
I stayed with friends in Sharon, PA about 15 years back (could be longer) and on my first night there, a woman shot her and killed her husband with a handgun following an argument. It was on the local news as the third story behind the high school football game and something about tax.
At about 11pm that evening, I was in a bar having seen the high school game at the stadium. A siren had gone off earlier around the town and when I asked about it, I was told that it was a curfew siren for kids to be indoors. I laughed as I thought this was a joke, but it was not...
In the land of the free, I had just seen a local news program in a bar that gave priority to a local sports event over a murder of a local person and at the same time was being told that all kids under 16 or 17 (I don't recall) had to be indoors after a certain time, or they could be picked up by the police and returned home. It all seemed a bit odd to me...
I remember when I went to Texas in the mid 90's and there were rules in bars about having your shirt tucked in because of people carrying concealed weapons. Also stickers on buses about not smoking, drinking or carrying guns. What got me, was that you needed to remind people of this... I mean, carrying a gun on a bus is illegal right, why the fuck would you need reminding of this? ignorance of the law is no defense right?
Why the fuck would you carry a gun on a bus in the first place. I asked friends about this and I imagined they would say something about needing to protect themselves, but nobody did. They all said that it was their right to carry a gun and they needed to be reminded where they were not allowed to carry one (because you could carry a concealed weapon just about everywhere and you needed to be reminded about where you could not carry it).
I have a friend who while working in Atlanta (having attended Emory law and passed the bar) told me she had a handgun in her flat because if she was woken during the night by someone in her flat, she would shoot and ask questions later. She pointed out that she would not wait to find out if the other party had a gun, because they could have a gun. In the UK you would do time for this (shooting someone in your own home), she believed that there would not be a court in the US that would see her face trial.
There are probably lots of you reading this who just don't get my perspective because of the cultural differences you have regarding guns (or you just think I am full of shit). You may think I am a liberal, maybe even a lefty. I just don't get this stuff and whenever I bring it up, someone usually does not understand my point of view.
In the UK we occasionally have crimes of passion where a husband/wife/partner is stabbed 57 times after years of issues/abuse. People will throw themselves in front of trains and off bridge and will kill their own kids. All of this is sad and all of this usually involves some kind of mental health concern (once the media have had a good root around).
I can think of 4 mass killings in the UK (Dunblane - 18 dead - Thomas Hamilton, Hungerford -15 dead - Michael Ryan, Cumbria - 13 dead - Derrick Bird and Northumbria - 3 - Raoul Moat - The man hunt made it huge news too) in my lifetime. There could have been more, but those must have stuck in my mind because they are so rare and therefore I can remember where they happened and the killers names.
In the US, these type of killings seem to happen a lot and kind of like the reporting of shootings, knee cappings and bombings during 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, after a bit you kind of get use to hearing about it that you don't recall the specifics.
It is sad, but it is also true. The fact that what was happening in N.I. was/is referred to as 'the troubles' is disrespectful and sad enough (3526 people on all sides got murdered between 1969 and 2001), but sadder is the fact that the death and maiming became so everyday, that we treated the news just like one of those things...
It feels like there is a lot of talk over there in the US when nutters shoot lots people in the US, but very little action. I have no idea how many people get killed each year in the US by nutters with guns, but I would imagine the number of deaths is hell of a lot higher than when a bunch of nutters smashed a couple of planes into buildings in NYC. None of this is right, but the response is very, very different.
When I go to the US, I have a to get my fingerprints taken, queue up for ages me with people carrying guns eyeballing me, take my shoes and belt off, feel really, really uncomfortable and not at all welcome. This is all down those nutters on those planes. I accept that that is part of visiting a country I love visiting. I get on a plane and know that when I arrive I am going to go through that shit. It is fine I get it...
However, it does seem pretty fucking ridiculous that when American nutters are killing American people left, right and centre with guns in their own neighborhoods, that so many people are so apposed to tighter gun restrictions and more federal enforcement.
How is heroin and methamphetimine restriction by the government working out?
The practicality of gun restriction is never rationally considered. The fantasy idea that guns can be retroactively eliminated from society in the USA is powerful and overwhelms reality.
The guns are not going anywhere. The more the government tries to restrict them, with more and more laws and regulations, the effect will be the exact same as the effect on prohibition on drugs. There is already potent evidence--the cities where gun control is most restrictive, Chicago, New York, DC, how's the gun crime there?
This is not theory, belief or dogma. This is reality. Gun control attempts only prevent law-abiding citizens from the means of self defense, keeps the guns in the hands of the bad guys, and enlarges the black market for guns. The historic facts are deniable only with tremendous doses of fantasy.
And, three students were knifed to death. A half dozen others had their bodies mangled by an automobile. The death toll in Isla Vista from vehicular massacre by crazed, prescription drug addled monsters in the 21st century is still automobile 4-handgun 3. Yet we persist in this delusional discussion.
Guns are here. They are not leaving. Laws and governments will not disarm the bad guys. Only the honest, law abiding. The culture of mass murder will not be changed by more gun laws. There are so many practical ways to begin to change the culture, (um, like not using guns and more powerful weapons to massacre brown people who live on top of oil,) to change the worship of violence and death. But, gun control is much more emotionally satisfying, and satisfying to these powerful and seductive fantasies of the government taking all the guns away and making us safe.
Get a time machine; go back to 1968. The USA had a choice wrt handguns. There were few enough in circulation, it was possible that laws, enforcement and a cultural will could've arrested the proliferation in its cradle. The murder of Robert Kennedy with a cheap revolver was the political impetus for changing our path. The politicians of that day actually responded to the will and voice of the people.
We chose this path. We are stuck with it. Fantasies about going back and taking a different path are just fantasies. If only we had that time machine.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
howard wrote:How is heroin and methamphetimine restriction by the government working out?
The practicality of gun restriction is never rationally considered. The fantasy idea that guns can be retroactively eliminated from society in the USA is powerful and overwhelms reality.
The guns are not going anywhere. The more the government tries to restrict them, with more and more laws and regulations, the effect will be the exact same as the effect on prohibition on drugs. There is already potent evidence--the cities where gun control is most restrictive, Chicago, New York, DC, how's the gun crime there?
This is not theory, belief or dogma. This is reality. Gun control attempts only prevent law-abiding citizens from the means of self defense, keeps the guns in the hands of the bad guys, and enlarges the black market for guns. The historic facts are deniable only with tremendous doses of fantasy.
And, three students were knifed to death. A half dozen others had their bodies mangled by an automobile. The death toll in Isla Vista from vehicular massacre by crazed, prescription drug addled monsters in the 21st century is still automobile 4-handgun 3. Yet we persist in this delusional discussion.
Guns are here. They are not leaving. Laws and governments will not disarm the bad guys. Only the honest, law abiding. The culture of mass murder will not be changed by more gun laws. There are so many practical ways to begin to change the culture, (um, like not using guns and more powerful weapons to massacre brown people who live on top of oil,) to change the worship of violence and death. But, gun control is much more emotionally satisfying, and satisfying to these powerful and seductive fantasies of the government taking all the guns away and making us safe.
Get a time machine; go back to 1968. The USA had a choice wrt handguns. There were few enough in circulation, it was possible that laws, enforcement and a cultural will could've arrested the proliferation in its cradle. The murder of Robert Kennedy with a cheap revolver was the political impetus for changing our path. The politicians of that day actually responded to the will and voice of the people.
We chose this path. We are stuck with it. Fantasies about going back and taking a different path are just fantasies. If only we had that time machine.
I spoke initially and mostly about culture Howard and only right at the end did I mention restrictions and more federal enforcement... I have no idea how to solve this issue and I know guns are not going anywhere. It just seems to me there is little or no will to change anything and if someone says things should change (let alone how to change them), they are usually held up as anti-American, not respecting the 2nd Amendment, naive and/or a communist.
We had knife and gun amnesties in the UK following recent tragedies, where people could hand over weapons and would not be prosecuted. Thousands of weapons were handed over, but I would imagine that would get laughed at in the US...
Like I said, I don't have the answers, but it seems to me that whatever is being done right now is not working.
At what point does "well, too far gone to do anything about it" refuse to accept responsibility for down the road, even way down the road? I know we're pretty established not giving a shit about 3 years from now let alone 30, but it should be a factor.
Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
howard wrote:The practicality of gun restriction is never rationally considered. The fantasy idea that guns can be retroactively eliminated from society in the USA is powerful and overwhelms reality.
(Specifically, this. There's an unstated (or should be stated) "in my lifetime" here. 50 years from now, guns could look like cars in Cuba.)
Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
Pruitt wrote:Those words make so much sense to me.
But I am an outsider, so it's not my battle to fight. I am just thankful that I live in a country where this isn't an issue.
It's difficult to regulate here as well Pruitt. Remember the Liberals introducing the gun registry? It loses over 50 million dollars a year and keep getting amended.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
Don't take my comments personally. This was not a measured, formal answer to your post, point by point. Just a post on the internet, not a deconstruction or a debate response. Of course I can do that if you like (but no one wants to see that.)
Some points I see as more relevant than the bs people want to indulge. Like magical thinking, 'if only we so something, things will wonderfully be better 50 years from now'.
The effects of choices we made as a society 50 years ago are coming home to roost. Many of those effects are permanent, or by now, the cure (full police state, government searching every home to confiscate weapons) is far far worse than the disease. But, we are inching toward that cure anyway. And plenty of folks on the teevee are screeching, 'why didn't the cops search this guy's apartment'? So, progress.
Culture, Tom. Yeah. America has been a violent gun loving place for a long ass time. I started thinking about the English history in Ireland, how that related to the gun violence of the mid 20th century in Ulster. But, yeah history is long and stubborn.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Don't take my comments personally. This was not a measured, formal answer to your post, point by point. Just a post on the internet, not a deconstruction or a debate response. Of course I can do that if you like (but no one wants to see that.)
Some points I see as more relevant than the bs people want to indulge. Like magical thinking, 'if only we so something, things will wonderfully be better 50 years from now'.
The effects of choices we made as a society 50 years ago are coming home to roost. Many of those effects are permanent, or by now, the cure (full police state, government searching every home to confiscate weapons) is far far worse than the disease. But, we are inching toward that cure anyway. And plenty of folks on the teevee are screeching, 'why didn't the cops search this guy's apartment'? So, progress.
Culture, Tom. Yeah. America has been a violent gun loving place for a long ass time. I started thinking about the English history in Ireland, how that related to the gun violence of the mid 20th century in Ulster. But, yeah history is long and stubborn.
Not taken personally at all Howard and kind of like Pruitt (not really my problem). I just cannot, for whatever reason, get my head around people thinking that there is not a problem (I think lots of Americans think this way) and that the people owning guns is ever a good idea.
