The Swamp

Ryan wrote:Anyone else hearing bad news?

mister d wrote:Reports seem shaky at best

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

howard wrote:Several news reports that he is very near the end. Mays, McCovey and Jim Brown are still hanging in, but this is the big one for me, not surprisingly.

Muhammad Ali, the three-time world heavyweight boxing champion who helped define his turbulent times as the most charismatic and controversial sports figure of the 20th century, died on Friday in a Phoenix-area hospital. He was 74.

His death was confirmed by Bob Gunnell, a family spokesman.

Ali was the most thrilling if not the best heavyweight ever, carrying into the ring a physically lyrical, unorthodox boxing style that fused speed, agility and power more seamlessly than that of any fighter before him.

But he was more than the sum of his athletic gifts. An agile mind, a buoyant personality, a brash self-confidence and an evolving set of personal convictions fostered a magnetism that the ring alone could not contain. He entertained as much with his mouth as with his fists, narrating his life with a patter of inventive doggerel. (“Me! Wheeeeee!”)

Ali was as polarizing a superstar as the sports world has ever produced — both admired and vilified in the 1960s and ’70s for his religious, political and social stances. His refusal to be drafted during the Vietnam War, his rejection of racial integration at the height of the civil rights movement, his conversion from Christianity to Islam and the changing of his “slave” name, Cassius Clay, to one bestowed by the separatist black sect he joined, the Lost-Found Nation of Islam, were perceived as serious threats by the conservative establishment and noble acts of defiance by the liberal opposition.

Loved or hated, he remained for 50 years one of the most recognizable people on the planet.

Muhammad Ali died Friday night. He was surrounded by family. There is no way to sum up his life because it was so big and contentious and fun and thrilling and, ultimately, silent. He was the most hated athlete of his time and the most beloved of all time. He was the loudmouth kid who couldn’t be touched, and the bruised warrior who would not go down, and the aging man who, though trapped by silence, talked about love. He was my father’s favorite athlete. I was raised on Ali.

No, there is no way to sum up Muhammad Ali at the end, there is simply a flood of images, Sports Illustrated covers and countless books. There are all those epic fights and special guest appearances and awards. There are all those punches and feints and Ali poems — including his shortest and most essential poem: “Me! Whee!” Brilliant writers like George Plimpton and Norman Mailer and Hunter S. Thompson and Mark Kram and Joyce Carol Oates and Gary Smith never tired of trying to unravel his magnificence. The brilliant actor Will Smith tried to recapture him on screen. Musicians across the last 50 years have tried to replay his rhythm.

But there was no one like Ali. He defined his time. Once, the writer Bob Greene asked to interview Ali for a special Esquire issue featuring the most influential people of their time. Here’s what followed in Greene’s classic story:

“I’m the most famous man in the world,” the voice said.

I said that there would be other famous people in the issue; people, perhaps, as famous as he.

“Who?” Ali said.

I said that some of the others were John F. Kennedy, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Martin Luther King.

“They’re all dead,” Ali said.

govmentchedda wrote:

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

Globally, you've got to include Pele. American? Jordan. Canadian? Gretzky.

Pruitt wrote:

govmentchedda wrote:

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

Globally, you've got to include Pele. American? Jordan. Canadian? Gretzky.

But none of them were anything other than athletes. In terms of fame, accomplishment AND relevance beyond the world of sports, there's no one who can come close.

WHEN I WAS SEVEN, I DISCOVERED THE CHAMP. TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, I KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.

degenerasian wrote:I've heard Stephen Brunt tell this story a few times.

WHEN I WAS SEVEN, I DISCOVERED THE CHAMP. TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, I KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/more/growing-up-ali/

rass wrote:Technically, roundaboutadly, he's my first kid's namesake. RIP

brian wrote:Too convoluted to get into but I had ice cream with him at least two times maybe three when I was 12 to 15.

mister d wrote:Ummm ... yeah dude. Definitely couldn't. Check the news.

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

EnochRoot wrote:

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

Sabo wrote:

EnochRoot wrote:

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

I don't dispute Ali was miles ahead of Jordan in trying to improve the human condition.

To me, a sports icon is someone who is known all over the world. That's it. And in that instance, Jordan is in the running, along with a few others like Pele. If you look at it from a global perspective, then you really are limited to athletes from a few sports: Soccer, basketball, boxing, Formula One and maybe - and I admit this is a stretch - rugby. Whether or not they're famous because of their political/social beliefs (Ali) or marketing (Jordan) is irrelevant.

Pruitt wrote:Also, Ali was the first athlete - black or white - to brag constantly and unapologetically. I think that this irritated the hell out of the old farts and the sportswriters early in his career. Ali wasn't one for false humility.

And while it would have happened eventually anyway, he set the precedent for every braggadocious athlete who followed.

EnochRoot wrote:

Sabo wrote:

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

sancarlos wrote:

Pruitt wrote:Also, Ali was the first athlete - black or white - to brag constantly and unapologetically. I think that this irritated the hell out of the old farts and the sportswriters early in his career. Ali wasn't one for false humility.

And while it would have happened eventually anyway, he set the precedent for every braggadocious athlete who followed.

I have to smile at this one. Well stated, Pruitt. This one is the reason my father didn't like Ali.