Three Very Important Travel Safety Questions

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:00 pm

govmentchedda wrote:The search for the missing/eaten two year old at Disney seems like an exercise in futility to me.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chi ... rt-n592641

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:03 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:The search for the missing/eaten two year old at Disney seems like an exercise in futility to me.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chi ... rt-n592641

I was wrong. I hope finding him provides the family some comfort. Horrible story, I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.

I've heard before that alligators can barrel roll their prey into drowning, and then work later to actually eat what they've caught. Forgot about that until now. What a terrible accident.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:06 pm

The Sybian wrote:1.) Let the Evil One swim, but not the Ginger.

2.) Not worth the risk, IMO. I think you'd be better off having it in your carryon. Checked luggage goes through screening, and probably has dogs sniffing the luggage. On an X-ray, I assume they come out looking like regular cookies, and the TSA people looking at the carryon stuff won't stop it. You run the risk or a random drug dog walking through the airport picking up on it, but most of the wandering security dogs aren't drug sniffers. At least not on drug sniffing duty, they could be trained to detect drugs, though. Pretty much nothing prevents dogs from smelling weed. Air tight, exploded aeresol scent can, in a pool of hot sauce and they smell through it all.

As bad a rap as airport screeners get, I've seen to much to fuck with them. Granted TSA is a fucking joke, but they have some sick equipment and virtually unlimited authority to search.

My thought re: checking vs. carry on is that if found in checked process, that your brownies just get taken. Having them on you leads to criminal possession issues.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:21 am

govmentchedda wrote:
The Sybian wrote:1.) Let the Evil One swim, but not the Ginger.

2.) Not worth the risk, IMO. I think you'd be better off having it in your carryon. Checked luggage goes through screening, and probably has dogs sniffing the luggage. On an X-ray, I assume they come out looking like regular cookies, and the TSA people looking at the carryon stuff won't stop it. You run the risk or a random drug dog walking through the airport picking up on it, but most of the wandering security dogs aren't drug sniffers. At least not on drug sniffing duty, they could be trained to detect drugs, though. Pretty much nothing prevents dogs from smelling weed. Air tight, exploded aeresol scent can, in a pool of hot sauce and they smell through it all.

As bad a rap as airport screeners get, I've seen to much to fuck with them. Granted TSA is a fucking joke, but they have some sick equipment and virtually unlimited authority to search.
My thought re: checking vs. carry on is that if found in checked process, that your brownies just get taken. Having them on you leads to criminal possession issues.

Does state law apply there at all? Possession is decriminalized in RI.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:42 am

Jerloma wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
The Sybian wrote:1.) Let the Evil One swim, but not the Ginger.

2.) Not worth the risk, IMO. I think you'd be better off having it in your carryon. Checked luggage goes through screening, and probably has dogs sniffing the luggage. On an X-ray, I assume they come out looking like regular cookies, and the TSA people looking at the carryon stuff won't stop it. You run the risk or a random drug dog walking through the airport picking up on it, but most of the wandering security dogs aren't drug sniffers. At least not on drug sniffing duty, they could be trained to detect drugs, though. Pretty much nothing prevents dogs from smelling weed. Air tight, exploded aeresol scent can, in a pool of hot sauce and they smell through it all.

As bad a rap as airport screeners get, I've seen to much to fuck with them. Granted TSA is a fucking joke, but they have some sick equipment and virtually unlimited authority to search.
My thought re: checking vs. carry on is that if found in checked process, that your brownies just get taken. Having them on you leads to criminal possession issues.
Does state law apply there at all? Possession is decriminalized in RI.

Aren't airports under federal jurisdiction?

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:44 am

I guess so. Are there federal marijuana laws? If so, why do states get to override them?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:46 am

Jerloma wrote:I guess so. Are there federal marijuana laws? If so, why do states get to override them?

Tenth Amendment bitches.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:49 am

Jerloma wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
The Sybian wrote:1.) Let the Evil One swim, but not the Ginger.

2.) Not worth the risk, IMO. I think you'd be better off having it in your carryon. Checked luggage goes through screening, and probably has dogs sniffing the luggage. On an X-ray, I assume they come out looking like regular cookies, and the TSA people looking at the carryon stuff won't stop it. You run the risk or a random drug dog walking through the airport picking up on it, but most of the wandering security dogs aren't drug sniffers. At least not on drug sniffing duty, they could be trained to detect drugs, though. Pretty much nothing prevents dogs from smelling weed. Air tight, exploded aeresol scent can, in a pool of hot sauce and they smell through it all.

As bad a rap as airport screeners get, I've seen to much to fuck with them. Granted TSA is a fucking joke, but they have some sick equipment and virtually unlimited authority to search.
My thought re: checking vs. carry on is that if found in checked process, that your brownies just get taken. Having them on you leads to criminal possession issues.
Does state law apply there at all? Possession is decriminalized in RI.

Possession is starting to become punishable by citation in Florida, on a city by city basis. No idea about Federal laws at airports.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:21 am

I'm guessing that federal authorities at airports hopefully have bigger fish to fry than a couple of pot cookies in checked baggage.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:48 am

Jerloma wrote:I guess so. Are there federal marijuana laws? If so, why do states get to override them?

States don't get to override them, actually. It's just that the feds recently decided not to go after marijuana possession that is legal in the various states.

It wasn't always like that. Several years back there were some high-profile arrests of people involved in medical marijuana in California.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:31 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Jerloma wrote:I guess so. Are there federal marijuana laws? If so, why do states get to override them?
States don't get to override them, actually. It's just that the feds recently decided not to go after marijuana possession that is legal in the various states.

It wasn't always like that. Several years back there were some high-profile arrests of people involved in medical marijuana in California.

Yep. Eric Holder held a press conference a few years ago announcing that the Feds would no longer prosecute marijuana offenses. A lot of people shit their pants. Like Steve said, the Feds raided dispensaries and arrested the owners despite them being properly licensed in California. No idea why they would bother, but it had a chilling effect on others running legitimate (under state law) dispensaries and growing operations. Colorado's Supreme Court recently held that an employer could fire an employee for failing a drug test, even with prescription marijuana in pill form that did not get the guy high. The employee was a paraplegic call center drone, so about as sympathetic as it gets. Since weed is still illegal under Federal law, employers can fire legal users, even if they never use on the job. Weed also isn't recognized by the ADA or any other Fed statute. Soon.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:51 am

I'm fully aware that it's no consolation but these people are gonna get paid big time. I'm seeing reports that Disney was well aware they had a gator problem but they didn't remove them because their high income guests enjoyed feeding them.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:33 am

Jerloma wrote:I'm fully aware that it's no consolation but these people are gonna get paid big time. I'm seeing reports that Disney was well aware they had a gator problem but they didn't remove them because their high income guests enjoyed feeding them.

Kind of tired of American litigious bullshit. Disney had a sign up warning people not to go in the water. Which is a sign I would take quite seriously almost anywhere, but especially in Florida as I'm not fond of being eaten by alligators. When I'm in Cabo in vacation, you're not supposed to swim in the ocean at most of the resorts by the marina because of currents. So I don't swim in the ocean because I'm fond of not drowning.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:48 am

They don't say not to go in the water

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:48 am

"No swimming" and "watch out for hungry gators" are two entirely different signs.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:54 am

govmentchedda wrote:"No swimming" and "watch out for hungry gators" are two entirely different signs.

Not in Florida. At least not to me. I'd assume any fresh water in Florida is potentially hosting gators.

And I absolutely wouldn't let my toddler (or dog) walk in shallow lake water at night. That just seems incredibly irresponsible.

That said, I'm not mad at the parents. They fucked up, and they more than paid the price for it. I can't imagine how they feel. I don't want to try to imagine.

But let's not pretend that nobody could have foreseen this.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:56 am

Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:59 am

Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts

Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:00 am

Yeah, I see people trying to draw a parallel between this and the bear parents and I don't think its even remotely close.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:01 am

Yeah, I will assume these little fuckers are all over the place.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:02 am

Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in the middle of Disney World?

fixed?

Makes a big difference, at least.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:03 am

Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?

I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.

Do you think that Disney didn't put "Gators" on their sign because "Duh..who doesn't know there are gators in Florida" or because a "Beware of gators" sign is bad for business?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:12 am

brian wrote:
Jerloma wrote:I'm fully aware that it's no consolation but these people are gonna get paid big time. I'm seeing reports that Disney was well aware they had a gator problem but they didn't remove them because their high income guests enjoyed feeding them.
Kind of tired of American litigious bullshit. Disney had a sign up warning people not to go in the water. Which is a sign I would take quite seriously almost anywhere, but especially in Florida as I'm not fond of being eaten by alligators. When I'm in Cabo in vacation, you're not supposed to swim in the ocean at most of the resorts by the marina because of currents. So I don't swim in the ocean because I'm fond of not drowning.

I agree that it is typical litigious American bullshit. But, they will get courted by a number of attorneys, they will select their Saul Goodman, they will sue, and they will get 2/3 of a large sum. (full disclosure: my brother is a personal injury lawyer.)

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:28 am

Jerloma wrote:
Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?
I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.

...with family events (the good ones being after dark) at every resort beach in the complex.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:42 am

howard wrote:Yeah, I will assume these little fuckers are all over the place.

Florida has got to be the only place in the world that has cayman, alligators, American crocodiles, and Nile crocodiles.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:50 am

Ryan wrote:
Jerloma wrote:
Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?
I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.
...with family events (the good ones being after dark) at every resort beach in the complex.

I guess. Gators get into people's swimming pools. I wouldn't assume that large lake like that one could be kept gator-free. That said, if folks (including you guys, it sounds like) didn't realize that Florida lakes - regardless of where they are - could have alligators, they should have signs saying so.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:52 am

Caveat - I let my kids go in the ocean in NC, even after recent shark attacks.

Not at night though.

duff · Post by **duff** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:54 am

Disney should have been safe about it. Always assume people don't recognize the danger or realize that alligators could be living at a resort at the 'Happiest Place on Earth'.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:56 am

For guys who have been there (I haven't been since I was a kid) - isn't this resort outside of the main Disney World? That lake looks really big to me on a map, and it's connected to another bigger lake. Those aren't all inside Disney walls, are they?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:00 pm

I don't know what you mean by walls, but yes all those resorts are within the same complex. Grand Floridian is right next door to the Magic Kingdom.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:00 pm

Yeah, man...Disney World is like as big as my state at this point.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:03 pm

Shirley wrote:For guys who have been there (I haven't been since I was a kid) - isn't this resort outside of the main Disney World? That lake looks really big to me on a map, and it's connected to another bigger lake. Those aren't all inside Disney walls, are they?

It's definitely on the property of the overall resort.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:11 pm

Ryan wrote:I don't know what you mean by walls, but yes all those resorts are within the same complex. Grand Floridian is right next door to the Magic Kingdom.

Yup.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:20 pm

Jerloma wrote:
Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?
I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.

Do you think that Disney didn't put "Gators" on their sign because "Duh..who doesn't know there are gators in Florida" or because a "Beware of gators" sign is bad for business?

Dingdingding... Winner!

There are definitely "No Swimming" signs along the shores. There are very few signs, I believe none but I'm not positive that say anything about gators. The few signs that exist other than No Swimming mention not to feed/interact with the wildlife with a picture/icon of a bird on it.

Disney absolutely took the calculated risk that folks hanging out on man made beaches (!) were going to actually stay out of the water, Have you guys ever been to Disney World? If you have, you know that a) the vast majority of people there are rubes and/or b) foreign with limited grasp of the english language.

You put a sign up with No Swimming and a gator right in the middle of the fucking sandy beach. I, frankly, can't believe this hasn't happened more often. It's almost like the gators came up with the idea of luring people down to the shore with the enticing sand and beach chairs strewn about.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Jerloma wrote:
Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?
I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.

Do you think that Disney didn't put "Gators" on their sign because "Duh..who doesn't know there are gators in Florida" or because a "Beware of gators" sign is bad for business?

Dingdingding... Winner!

There are definitely "No Swimming" signs along the shores. There are very few signs, I believe none but I'm not positive that say anything about gators. The few signs that exist other than No Swimming mention not to feed/interact with the wildlife with a picture/icon of a bird on it.

Disney absolutely took the calculated risk that folks hanging out on man made beaches (!) were going to actually stay out of the water, Have you guys ever been to Disney World? If you have, you know that a) the vast majority of people there are rubes and/or b) foreign with limited grasp of the english language.

You put a sign up with No Swimming and a gator right in the middle of the fucking sandy beach. I, frankly, can't believe this hasn't happened more often. It's almost like the gators came up with the idea of luring people down to the shore with the enticing sand and beach chairs strewn about.

Come on.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:39 pm

A_B wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Jerloma wrote:
Shirley wrote:
Ryan wrote:Well its a good thing Walt Disney World is a local attraction that hosts only the finest of Southeastern U.S. mid-tropical ecosystem experts
Do people really not know there are alligators in Florida?
I can see how people might not realize that there are gators in a man made beach with a man made lagoon in the center of an enormous tourist attraction.

Do you think that Disney didn't put "Gators" on their sign because "Duh..who doesn't know there are gators in Florida" or because a "Beware of gators" sign is bad for business?

Dingdingding... Winner!

There are definitely "No Swimming" signs along the shores. There are very few signs, I believe none but I'm not positive that say anything about gators. The few signs that exist other than No Swimming mention not to feed/interact with the wildlife with a picture/icon of a bird on it.

Disney absolutely took the calculated risk that folks hanging out on man made beaches (!) were going to actually stay out of the water, Have you guys ever been to Disney World? If you have, you know that a) the vast majority of people there are rubes and/or b) foreign with limited grasp of the english language.

You put a sign up with No Swimming and a gator right in the middle of the fucking sandy beach. I, frankly, can't believe this hasn't happened more often. It's almost like the gators came up with the idea of luring people down to the shore with the enticing sand and beach chairs strewn about.
Come on.

As someone who lives in Las Vegas I'm going to defend NLFC's characterization.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:44 pm

As someone who has never been to Disney (or Florida), I choose to believe that characterization and assume the inverse as well.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:48 pm

Oh yeah? Well would a rube do THIS?!?!

(Brandishes $45 limited edition Duffy the Disney Bear collectible pin)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:02 pm

Let me add a couple of points:

* I work in communications for a water utility. People routinely swim in our reservoirs despite a ton of very clear signage explicitly stating it is forbidden. I've been here a little over 3 years, 5 people have drowned in that time.

* I'm going to just echo ard go deeper on the "on property" issue. Disney goes WAY out its way to make you feel like you've entered another place/domain once you drive onto their massive, sprawling complex. They invite you to believe you have entered the happiest place on earth. Everything is manicured and sculpted to make you buy into this.

So, yeah... It is fucking stupid to hang out in a lagoon in FL. But I also don't expect a family from Middle of Fucking Nowhere, Nebraska to fully grasp that danger. Particularly when there aren't any signs up stating EXPLICITLY why you shouldn't be hanging near the water's edge, despite the beautiful, inviting beach Disney provides it's guests.

Look, I'm not some Fuck Disney guy. I've spent thousand of dollars and had great times down there. But, in my opinion, they were negligent here.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:39 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Disney goes WAY out its way to make you feel like you've entered another place/domain once you drive onto their massive, sprawling complex. They invite you to believe you have entered the happiest place on earth. Everything is manicured and sculpted to make you buy into this.

I was just thinking about this too. The shores behind Wilderness Lodge seem about as far from the Everglades as you could possibly be. It's Lake Tahoe back there. If this were a TV show case, and it went to trial, this would be the angle the smart new attorney would nail them on.