Obama Administration Meltdown Thread

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:17 pm

Why didn't Obama do the executive immigration order last spring? It seems to be an issue that voters would support the Dems for, especially after the GOP is given time to screw up their response.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:23 pm

It is not new, qualitatively. But, the number of people swallowing the vast amounts of bullshit to such a complete degree is new. Or, the reaction (or lack thereof) to a particular event or bit of bullshit is so different than it would have been a few years or decades ago. Sure, I've been an outsider my whole life (not my choice, America; being black had a lot to do with it), and thank goodness there is comfort in the fact that I have a lot of experience to draw upon in processing the world today and the masses accepting what they accept.

I am under no direct attack for my viewpoints. I am, however, under constant attack wrt the weakening of the purchasing power of the dollars I collect in return for my labors, upon my right to personal privacy and the confidence that my communications are not being vacuumed up by the state intelligence services, upon my ability to deliver safe, reliable medical care to my patients rather than to most efficiently enrich the parties that have co-opted my industry at the expense of the health of the people, upon my desire for a healthy, natural supply of food, and upon my subconscious in constant efforts to influence me to buy crap I don't need or vote for clowns who will not only not represent me, but will harm me in service to the big money folks that they do represent.

But these attacks are independent upon my thoughts and opinions. They don't discriminate. Rather, it is my thoughts and opinions that recognize these attacks. Again, thank goodness. The dissonance sucks, but not fending off these forces sucks worse.

It is quite easy to understand why people swallow the delusions and bullshit they are fed. Because rejecting them is hard fucking work.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:29 pm

EdRomero wrote:Why didn't Obama do the executive immigration order last spring? It seems to be an issue that voters would support the Dems for, especially after the GOP is given time to screw up their response.

Because Democrats don't turn out in midterms to the degree Republicans do, and antagonizing conservatives would have caused the Dems to get plastered to a greater degree than they did. Obama is a cynical fuck like any other garden-variety politician.

I hate to say this, but I see Obama slowly turning into a watered-down version of what the GOP has accused him of being from the start. Not that I think he's some sort of Manchurian Candidate-foreign-born-Muslim-terrorist sympathizer, but there are legitimate concerns about his abuse of executive authority and pushing through measures the general public does not want.

Not that this gives the GOP any moral high ground after the shit Dubya and his cronies pulled.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:42 pm

I stumbled upon this essay

Possible Motives for Ousting Hagel

I think it offers an apt insight into Obama's brain, and helps explain his schizophrenic foreign policy behaviors. I've long been a big fan of Parry, and this speaks to one of my favorite bugaboos, the age of 'credentialism'. But this is calm, non-polemical (well, unless you like neo-cons I suppose) and worth a read.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:26 pm

howard wrote:I stumbled upon this essay

Possible Motives for Ousting Hagel

I think it offers an apt insight into Obama's brain, and helps explain his schizophrenic foreign policy behaviors. I've long been a big fan of Parry, and this speaks to one of my favorite bugaboos, the age of 'credentialism'. But this is calm, non-polemical (well, unless you like neo-cons I suppose) and worth a read.

Yes, it is.

Loved this quote:

Six years into his presidency, Obama still doesn’t seem to understand that just because some people have impressive credentials doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:38 pm

He finally turned us in. It's over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4WEOOoIEAEYT7D.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:07 am

Cowherd???

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:20 am

rass wrote:Cowherd???

Will he mention John Wall?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:21 am

I now support his impeachment.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:42 pm

mister d wrote:I now support his impeachment.

Once he appears on First Take with Skip and Stephen A, yes.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:51 pm

Well, he didn't close Guantanamo, but he's fixin to open the rest of the island.

U.S., Cuba to restore ties after 50 years of hostility

I wonder if Fox News will report this favorably?

Seriously, I expected this positive, incredibly overdue action to be one of the first things Obama would do. I had some ideas for maybe doing some business down there. Maybe five years late is better than never.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:17 pm

howard wrote:I had some ideas for maybe doing some business down there.

selling parts for 1950s Chevys?

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:37 pm

I wanna go before there's a Starbucks and McDonalds on every corner.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:28 pm

brian wrote:I wanna go before there's a Starbucks and McDonalds on every corner.

Buy a flight ASAP.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:58 pm

Can I ask a question? I don't really know exactly how you measure success and I know that you can't believe everything you read on the interwebs, but this seems on the surface to be fairly compelling evidence. You might even throw in Bin Laden and gas prices. So what's the rub here? Why do so many people consider this a failed presidency? Because taxes went up a little bit?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:46 pm

I imagine they'd point out unemployment doesn't include people who stopped looking, explain that number is much higher than before citing this guy they know and dismiss the other numbers along with it.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:16 pm

Jerloma wrote:Can I ask a question? I don't really know exactly how you measure success and I know that you can't believe everything you read on the interwebs, but this seems on the surface to be fairly compelling evidence. You might even throw in Bin Laden and gas prices. So what's the rub here? Why do so many people consider this a failed presidency? Because taxes went up a little bit?

Because he failed to take our guns, we still have a judicial system instead of Sharia Law, Christianity is still openly practiced (though oppression is rampant), the jackbooted thugs in Blue Helmets (UN Peacekeeping troops) haven't run amok taking over the country, all pundits criticizing Obama haven't been forced off the air, we STILL don't have our death panels...

One argument I constantly see is that the national Debt is higher under Obama. This is like blaming a relief pitcher coming into a game that is 10-0, then gives up 2 runs, for the team losing 12-0. More accurate, Clinton left the game up 2-0, Bush was yanked at 2-10, Obama at 2-14, but Obama gave up more runs than Bush, and Clinton leaving the game in the lead is not relevant.

I don't think the numbers in that image mean all that much. Like D said, unemployment rate doesn't tell the full story, a lot of the economic improvement stats are papered over and will eventually fall apart. I really don't know how much credit can be given to Obama for any of those improvements, and certainly not gas prices, yet all of those numbers were used to "prove" Obama was destroying the country 5 years ago. The best thing I saw was a clip from Fox 2 days after the election where the D-Bags were gloating that the Republican landslide caused a 100 point bump in the Dow. That proves the market approves of the Rs winning. But the 10,000 points between 2008 and today are meaningless. And seriously, 100 points? That is such an irrelevant number. Hell, the Dow went up 154 today. I think that was a direct result of Sarah Palin pimping her year old Christmas book on PalinTV. The Market approves of keeping Christ in Christmas and sticking it to those darn Atheists by making Palin's Rice Krispy Treats.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:32 pm

The healthcare debacle?

Doctors (Howard) hate it. Forced patients to make trade-offs etc....

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:46 pm

I shake my head in wonder each time a president is credited or blamed with 90% of what happens with the economy. If Bozo the Clown had been president for the past 6 (or 26) years, I think the stock market, unemployment rate, GDP growth, consumer confidence, and a raft of similar stats would be pretty much what they are today. Also, does it really escape notice that most of these statistics are highly correlated? so it's not like multiple measures of economic goodness are all amazingly ticking up.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:17 am

DC47 wrote:I shake my head in wonder each time a president is credited or blamed with 90% of what happens with the economy. If Bozo the Clown had been president for the past 6 (or 26) years, I think the stock market, unemployment rate, GDP growth, consumer confidence, and a raft of similar stats would be pretty much what they are today. Also, does it really escape notice that most of these statistics are highly correlated? so it's not like multiple measures of economic goodness are all amazingly ticking up.

But he has been!

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:11 pm

From my libertarian perspective, every presidency is a failed presidency. My military side knows why this has to be. The world doesn't run on idealism. At heart, that's what Libertarianism is. I struggle with rationalizing this all the time. It's why I'm skeptical to the whole "voting" thing and why I truly have divorced myself from feeling indignant when politicians are out there being dumb.

Now don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad presidency considering all of the incessant and rampant obstruction from the GOP, but when Wall Street walks, no one has to answer for torture, and domestic spying is at the level its at with whistleblowers either in jail or in hiding, it exactly isn't a whirlwind victory for human rights.

Bensell · Post by **Bensell** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:20 pm

Johnnie wrote:Now don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad presidency considering all of the incessant and rampant obstruction from the GOP, but when Wall Street walks, no one has to answer for torture, and domestic spying is at the level its at with whistleblowers either in jail or in hiding, it exactly isn't a whirlwind victory for human rights.

That's pretty much my view on this administration.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:41 pm

My simple view:

- Obama is better than the alternatives we were offered. But not that good.

- In the long run, is it better to have 'better' or to let the 'worse' guys run things and allow the country a real clear view of what their ideology yields?

- Are Americans smart enough to learn from that outcome?

I don't know. So, at least on the national level, I don't have a clue.

I didn't vote for Obama last time as I knew that my state was not in play, so I wouldn't help 'worse' get into office. And because I couldn't stand the odor emanating from this administration. Endless war, endless Wall Street bailouts, endless delayed half-measures (at best) on social issues. Endless people I know believing Obama is either progressive and/or a leader.

In my cranky final years I'm just saying No in many aspects of my life. I don't have time for situations and people I once tried to deal with. I was once pretty involved with politics. I have good friends who still are. I try be polite. But it's mostly noise to me now.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:29 pm

DC47 wrote:My simple view:

- Obama is better than the alternatives we were offered. But not that good.

- In the long run, is it better to have 'better' or to let the 'worse' guys run things and allow the country a real clear view of what their ideology yields?

- Are Americans smart enough to learn from that outcome?

I don't know. So, at least on the national level, I don't have a clue.

I didn't vote for Obama last time as I knew that my state was not in play, so I wouldn't help 'worse' get into office. And because I couldn't stand the odor emanating from this administration. Endless war, endless Wall Street bailouts, endless delayed half-measures (at best) on social issues. Endless people I know believing Obama is either progressive and/or a leader.

In my cranky final years I'm just saying No in many aspects of my life. I don't have time for situations and people I once tried to deal with. I was once pretty involved with politics. I have good friends who still are. I try be polite. But it's mostly noise to me now.

Interesting. I would have thought that the polarization of American politics would have made people more passionate about their side in order to fight the other side.

But in fact the rhetoric is so overwhelming that it's created a stronger point of view. The "Don't give a shit anymore" side. I would be happier if that somehow translated into a strong third party to challenge the left and right. But they truly don't give a shit.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:23 pm

Oh, I think there is tremendous polarization. My lack of passion for ripping the right is seen with suspicion. But I haven't actually grown more conservative. If anything, on many issues I deny that the 'right wing' is actually conservative. And I am far more radical than they are, in whatever direction it will be labelled (erroneously) today.

Mostly it's just that I am withdrawing from even mild bullshit in all domains of my life. People, politics, business -- I don't have time for what I once had time for. This isn't just being cranky. I'm very much at peace with most of my life. Moreso than ever. It's a combination of having seen how the movie will play out and a greater awareness of how little time I have left.

Regarding the political movie, I have a close friend who is quite far on the left. He has lived his commitments, from the days of supporting the Sandinistas with actual stuff to 2008 when he took on a role as a lead organizer for the Obama election organization. He never sold this hard to me. But we did have several serious conversations where he explained the brilliance and newness of the Obama Movement. Hope, change. Leadership that would sell progressive policies to an America that had elected him and believed in him.

I suggested that Obama would appoint Robert Rubin clones to 'fix' the collapsing economy and a bunch of Clintonites would cluster around foreign policy. Compromise on every front. Also, war without end.

After a year or so of the Obama administration, I began to dine at his expense on the bets that we made.

My friend is kind enough to still be my friend, even after the past six years. And despite the singes, he's still a highly-involved, willing-to-go-door-to-door, convention-attending progressive democrat. Just a bit less nationally focused and a bit more locally focused. Remarkably unbitter. A bit smarter perhaps. I deeply admire him.

However, events in recent years on the national, local, and personal scales have left me even more alienated and unwilling to Believe. My oldest daughter now interrupts my comments on even mundane, everyday non-political topics (e.g., youth soccer, the public schools, cell phones and cars) to summarize my viewpoint as "Yet Another Self-serving Hypocritical Scam." She's mocking me in a joking, gentle way, but I have to admit that she's pretty much got it right.

I'm also pleased that she can pretty quickly identify the YASHS in situations she runs into. She's several decades in advance of my development. Which should serve her quite well. She has experienced what I identify as self-serving hypocritical scams in several settings in her young life, and has shockingly has not instinctively rejected -- where is the teen rebellion? -- my my sophisticated analysis. She should be quick to identify the YASHS that runs wide and deep in the world she is rapidly entering.

Right now, she's doing a brilliant job of avoiding the brainwashing that is part of the elite college admission process that is peaking for high school seniors this month, and is seen as a life-altering high-stakes enterprise by her peers (and their equally clueless parents). Nothing brings a smile to my face quicker than to hear where she's at with this, in contrast to where everyone around her is. The modest price I pay is that I have to be willing to speak only vaguely on this topic at parties and parent events, lest I piss people off and generate resentment. Sometimes I tell just part of the truth -- that college applications aren't taking much time, aren't a big deal to us, and that I don't even know if my daughter will ever attend -- and let this sit there as an inexplicable mystery. But I just smile and don't explain this apparent idiocy. I admit to enjoying this tack a bit more than I should. But it does have the advantage that I am not directly criticizing the deeply held fundamental beliefs or my friends and acquaintances.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:17 pm

degenerasian wrote: Interesting. I would have thought that the polarization of American politics would have made people more passionate about their side in order to fight the other side.

But in fact the rhetoric is so overwhelming that it's created a stronger point of view. The "Don't give a shit anymore" side. I would be happier if that somehow translated into a strong third party to challenge the left and right. But they truly don't give a shit.

I think it is having both effects, and I think the power brokers played this perfectly. They have divided the country into an Us v. Them dichotomy, and we bicker incessantly over issues that the powers that be don't give a fuck about, like abortion, gay marriage, Kenyan Muslims invading the White House and destroying the country from within by instituting Sharia Law and siding with the terrorists. Christian oppression, Ebola... No matter what the issue, everyone will stay on the same side no matter what, while the powers steal all of our money, keep worker salaries at the same level despite inflation over 30+ years. The wealth transfer to the top 1% is absolutely staggering, and if people realized how bad it truly is, I think we would see a legitimate revolution. In the meantime, while we fight over the media driven issues, corporations are now people who have a constitutional right to exercise Free Speech in the form of donating millions of dollars to buy politicians, and draft legislation that the owned politicians pass without changing a word.

Many people don't give a shit anymore, because it is damned near impossible to have a conversation with anyone with opposing viewpoints. People who are starting to figure it out, re giving up. The Republican plan from the late 1970s on has been to keep people ignorant of or uninterested in the real issues, so they won't vote. They flat out said that if people knew the issues, the Republic Party would die. Then in order to maintain their power, they stole the Christian vote by pretending to be the "Family Values Party," pitting Dems as God-hating evil monsters waging war on Christmas. Meanwhile, the Dems claim to be protecting the poor and helping the middle class, while shipping 100s of billions of dollars to Wall Street to destroy the economy in order to line their pockets. And then use the money to buy more politicians to write laws allowing them to steal more from the government and population. The game is rigged, so you either bicker over Chik-Fil-A or burst a blood vessel in your brain due to anger over the reality.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:25 pm

And to add to that: Its a very weird feeling to be a (strong) beneficiary of the setup you loathe. I would more or less the poster boy if I had family wealth versus hourly wage parents; relatively lazy student who was given every opportunity not to fail until I finally came around and tried.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:48 am

And the media feeds into this by being partisan and not presenting the people the real facts?

The only solution seems to be that it gets so bad and puppet after puppet year after year sits in the Whitehouse that people get fed up and someone brilliant leads a third party. Obamamania times 1000.

Does that person exist? Is that person allowed to exist?

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:37 am

DC47 wrote:...I'm just saying No in many aspects of my life. I don't have time for situations and people I once tried to deal with. I was once pretty involved with politics. I have good friends who still are. I try be polite. But it's mostly noise to me now.

Amen.

I politely listened to a buddy of mine call our Prime Minister every name in the book, up to and including a fascist. I masterfully changed the subject to the Raptors. While I am not a major fan of Steven Harper, I have seen a lot worse in my time, and besides, educated middle-aged adults shouldn't get so riled up.

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:16 am

mister d wrote:And to add to that: Its a very weird feeling to be a (strong) beneficiary of the setup you loathe.

Curt Schilling disagrees!

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:35 am

degenerasian wrote:And the media feeds into this by being partisan and not presenting the people the real facts?

The only solution seems to be that it gets so bad and puppet after puppet year after year sits in the Whitehouse that people get fed up and someone brilliant leads a third party. Obamamania times 1000.

Does that person exist? Is that person allowed to exist?

I don't think the MSM is nearly as biased as it gets made out to be. It is lazy, reports bullshit in a shitty way, while failing to hold leaders responsible for anything, but it doesn't have the Liberal bias Conservatives constantly cry about. Going back to 2000, the network news programs gave close to equal positive and negative stories on Presidential nominees. In 2000, the networks total stories and airtime actually weighed slightly in Bush's favor over Gore, but that is when the Liberal Media battle cry really took off. I constantly hear the argument that Fox is the Conservative equivalent of MSNBC, CNN, and network news. That is complete bullshit. None of those networks is a branch of the Democratic Party. Roger Ailes first incarnation of FoxNews was actually called GOPTV, but they changed the slogan to "Fair and Balanced," giving Hannity the sniveling weasel Colmes as the proof of presenting both sides. Fox watchers parrot what they are told, and are trained to think anything that disproves or argues against Fox is a Liberal lie, and anyone who believes otherwise is mindless sheep blindly following every news source other than Fox. Snopes is Liberal propaganda, Wikipedia is controlled by the Democrats, all neutral nonpartisan sources and facts are biased. Fox, Drudge, World News Daily and the like are the only sources brave enough to tell the truth, and everyone who points out their lies is afraid of hearing an opposite viewpoint.

Is MSNBC a Liberal biased channel? Absolutely, they never pretended to be otherwise. They also don't pretend to be a news network, but a channel of mostly Liberal pundits stating their opinions. MSNBC also gave a Conservative former Congressman the prime morning slot. It used to be 3 hours, not sure now. Despite the general argument, I have never once heard or read anyone parroting Al Sharpton or Ed Schultz talking points, and they frequently criticize Obama. AFAIK, they have no coordinated "talking points memo" requiring every host discuss the same issue in the same terms. I also love the cognitive dissonance when I hear in the same sentence "you are all just MSNBC drones, and MSNBC is a joke because nobody watches it."

As for your question about the ideal candidate, no, that candidate cannot exist, as they will never get the money needed to become a serious candidate, and the campaign finance laws just got much worse. Giant Corporations and big money contributors will never back an honest candidate working in the interest of the American people. The media will not give that candidate air time necessary to get their message out. Grassroots organizing is expensive and difficult to get going without huge support. Plus the two major parties will crush any movement of a 3rd party to rise up. My hope is that when income inequality gets bad enough that people can't afford basic necessities or at least minimal luxuries, people will wake up and force a change. Historically, there is a tipping point in wealth inequality where a revolution takes hold. We are moving towards that point, and the greedy won't be able to stop themselves from compiling wealth before they hit the tipping point. Look at the Koch Brothers. They are each worth over $40 Billion dollars, yet they are merciless in preventing workers rights laws, fighting welfare programs, pushing hard to eliminate any funding or authority to the EPA... and funding politicians down to school board elections to ensure their will is met and they can accumulate more wealth. At some point, doesn't increasing your wealth reach a point of diminishing returns? Does having $45 Billion dollars really improve your life any more than have $40 Billion? FFS, these two assholes are worth over $81 Billion dollars! How much can they really spend? How much do you need to leave your children? The only explanation is that it is a compulsive need for money and power. Clearly they aren't making money to improve their lives. Sure they donate to the arts, but they fight hard to allow their businesses to pollute with impunity and strive for a Libertarian free market economy where they can do whatever the fuck they want, making more money while fucking over as many people as they can.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:36 am

The saddest people on Earth are middle aged dudes who care so damn much about meaningless political things.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:09 pm

Gunpowder wrote:The saddest people on Earth are middle aged dudes who care so damn much about meaningless political things.

Ouch. How dare you call me middle aged. I have 7 years until I hit that mark.

I do agree, and need to stop myself from clicking on FB links HDO comments on. This shit does matter though, as the uninformed Conservatives vote in much bigger percentages than Liberals. Personally, I don't want my laws governed by a 2000 year old book. I don't want the EPA disbanded and allowing corporations to dump toxic shit into rivers, water tables and the air at will with no consequences. I don't want the masses convinced that reducing worker wages and exponentially increasing executive and board members multi-million dollar bonuses is somehow in their interest while the number of people below the poverty line drastically increases and the middle class spirals down.

Shit like the 2008 financial collapse were completely avoidable and inevitable, and that deeply impacted my life. I was working as a legal headhunter on 100% commission with a wife on maternity leave. I was looking at a likelihood of a year with no income if I stayed, because lawyers from the firms and financial institutions I worked with were laying off thousands of attorneys a month, and nobody was going to pay recruiter fees when thousands of Ivy League attorneys with immaculate credentials were out of work and desperate. I had to leave a job and career I loved to go back to a career I hated at the shitiest place imaginable with half the pay promised, and it took me 4 years to get out. This also forced my wife to leave a job she loved that allowed her more time with the kids for a high stress, enormous hours job, and that damned near ruined my marriage while I watched the value of my house plummet. So yeah, this shit matters to me.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:55 pm

The Sybian wrote:
degenerasian wrote:And the media feeds into this by being partisan and not presenting the people the real facts?

The only solution seems to be that it gets so bad and puppet after puppet year after year sits in the Whitehouse that people get fed up and someone brilliant leads a third party. Obamamania times 1000.

Does that person exist? Is that person allowed to exist?
As for your question about the ideal candidate, no, that candidate cannot exist, as they will never get the money needed to become a serious candidate, and the campaign finance laws just got much worse. Giant Corporations and big money contributors will never back an honest candidate working in the interest of the American people. The media will not give that candidate air time necessary to get their message out. Grassroots organizing is expensive and difficult to get going without huge support. Plus the two major parties will crush any movement of a 3rd party to rise up. My hope is that when income inequality gets bad enough that people can't afford basic necessities or at least minimal luxuries, people will wake up and force a change. Historically, there is a tipping point in wealth inequality where a revolution takes hold. We are moving towards that point, and the greedy won't be able to stop themselves from compiling wealth before they hit the tipping point. Look at the Koch Brothers. They are each worth over $40 Billion dollars, yet they are merciless in preventing workers rights laws, fighting welfare programs, pushing hard to eliminate any funding or authority to the EPA... and funding politicians down to school board elections to ensure their will is met and they can accumulate more wealth. At some point, doesn't increasing your wealth reach a point of diminishing returns? Does having $45 Billion dollars really improve your life any more than have $40 Billion? FFS, these two assholes are worth over $81 Billion dollars! How much can they really spend? How much do you need to leave your children? The only explanation is that it is a compulsive need for money and power. Clearly they aren't making money to improve their lives. Sure they donate to the arts, but they fight hard to allow their businesses to pollute with impunity and strive for a Libertarian free market economy where they can do whatever the fuck they want, making more money while fucking over as many people as they can.

I was going to answer that "that person" would have to be a billionaire who would be happy to lose that status spending on a legitimate presidential campaign. And get trashed by the media. And have his/her whole life go under a microscope.

Of course, that person would need voters to actually vote on what is best for themselves/the country instead of coming down to one reason that they believe in their heart, for example, voting for someone who is anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage or whatever, and voting on that opinion/belief only.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:22 pm

When did it get to the point that political campaigns cost millions if not billions of dollars?
From a small place like Canada, this seems out of control.

Here, the Prime Minister is just a Member of Parliament from a district (riding) of the country who happens to be the leader of the parties with the most riding wins.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:29 pm

degenerasian wrote:When did it get to the point that political campaigns cost millions if not billions of dollars?

Go back to the comment about corporations being able to pump in unlimited amounts of money into elections...

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:32 pm

Syb, that's a brutal story. And one that's being played out in similar versions in hundreds of thousands of households across the country. I'm so sorry you and your wife are going through this.

Politics certainly matter, in that lives are affected. I think the problem for many of us is that we're skeptical about whether anything we can do in the political sector will matter. Ultimately, whether the current state of the democratic system is all that democratic. Or if it's a game that is rigged against us.

Freakish politicians who lack both character and intelligence. Big money in campaigns. Gerrymandered districts. Dysfunctional news media causing a misinformed populace.

These factors, and others, that dominate politics, are hard to get past for me. I rarely find a candidate that I'm even a bit inclined to support, from the local to the national level.

I've been politically involved. I've run local candidate campaigns and led three successful ballot initiatives. But I'm at a loss as to how to be constructively involved in politics right now, at any level.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:49 pm

brian wrote:
degenerasian wrote:When did it get to the point that political campaigns cost millions if not billions of dollars?
Go back to the comment about corporations being able to pump in unlimited amounts of money into elections...

There are no limits? We have donation laws in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_po ... _in_Canada" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/laws.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it's important to care but also see both sides and not be entrenched. I have friends who are have been entrenched on both sides. For example when they were single they wanted the government to subsidize university tuition but not daycares. When they have young children they want daycare subsidies and not tuition subsidies. And when their kid gets to university it'll flip again.

When they build Calgary transit, people say I don't need it, why build it? I need it everyday.

Very narrow-minded views on both sides.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:58 pm

Most of the shit absolutely does not matter. The things we have political arguments on, by and large, do not really matter. We ferociously argued about Terri GD Schaivo.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:59 pm

degenerasian wrote:
brian wrote:
degenerasian wrote:When did it get to the point that political campaigns cost millions if not billions of dollars?
Go back to the comment about corporations being able to pump in unlimited amounts of money into elections...
There are no limits? We have donation laws in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_po ... _in_Canada" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/laws.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it's important to care but also see both sides and not be entrenched. I have friends who are have been entrenched on both sides. For example when they were single they wanted the government to subsidize university tuition but not daycares. When they have young children they want daycare subsidies and not tuition subsidies. And when their kid gets to university it'll flip again.

When they build Calgary transit, people say I don't need it, why build it? I need it everyday.

Very narrow-minded views on both sides.

Peeps probably complained when Eisenhower was building stupid Interstate highways through Texas. I'm all for progress that I don't need.