The Swamp

It's that time in the barrel for old A_B and his oldest. One of the things I've learned fairly early on is that those tuition numbers listed on US News and World reports rankings is not a true cost, back to a lot of schools making it easier financially with grants and whatnot. basically it boils down to "if you get accepted here we can work out a price that is much easier to handle based on your financials" so we haven't ruled out any but the most expense (FUCK YOU GEORGE WASHINGTON U) because I'm not in the dream-killing mode at this moment.

Anyway, we have scheduled a trip to Johns Hopkins in a couple of weeks, but I'm only going to drive that far if I can squeeze at least one more college in to the rotation. I said I haven't ruled out a lot, but the problem is that a place like Georgetown and even the University of Maryland end up being nearly twice the true cost of even Johns Hopkins, so those are not really on the table.


Here's what I know about her college expectations:

- Preferably in decent proximity to a city
- Wants a traditional college feel, not a concrete jungle

And that's it. This is nascent, but we don't want to fall behind. Here are the schools she is considering

- Johns Hopkins
- University of Chicago
- Boston U (considering a Boston trip for spring break next year)

I realize these are all pretty elite schools, but like I said I am not in the dream-killing phase and to be perfectly honest she is a really good student so I think these at least are not entirely out of the realm of possibility. We are making her visit the in-town schools here in Lexington (UK and Transylvania) but she is very cool on both of those. Wants to get away, I guess.

Anyway, the question is, does anyone have any recommendations for schools even generally in the route to Baltimore from Lexington that would be worth checking out? I want to find a state school or two to look at, but out of state prices almost preclude them and the private schools become better options.

Boston isn't NYC, but BU is definitely concrete jungle, and smack dab in the middle of the city. The Citgo sign that you see during Red Sox games is atop the school bookstore.

govmentchedda wrote:Boston isn't NYC, but BU is definitely concrete jungle, and smack dab in the middle of the city. The Citgo sign that you see during Red Sox games is atop the school bookstore.

OK. I didn't know that, but she has researched that one, so I dunno. This is all very preliminary!

Yeah, BC is actually a less urban setting than BU if there's any overlap there, although I think they let you into BU no questions asked if you assure them its not your second choice behind BC or third behind Notre Dame and BC. And maybe a slight counterpoint to the BU comment is that Boston is a very comfortable city and the college definitely doesn't get lost in the neighborhood. If you're looking upscale-college-near-a-major-city, Villanova might be worth a check too since there's very close proximity to Philadelphia with the ability to completely ignore Philadelphia if you're a typical Villanova student. Sounds like you have a pretty smart kid on your hands if she's focusing on heading towards the coast.

Okay so it sounds like a road trip from KY to Baltimore. Got the slightly southern route (i.e. 81 v 64). Without taking into account $ I would consider the following on your road trip.

Pick one way on the outbound and another on the return

* Richmond
* UVA--Cville is a big enough city
* Maryland College Park
* If you are at JHU you could consider Loyola, MD (although does not sound like it fits the college setting or maybe her academic sites)


If you are going to cruise up the 81 you will pass lots of smaller schools not near cities. It is worth popping in one just to confirm that the bias for a big school near a city is real. I highly recommend Washington & Lee (especially if she is thinking about JHU...creates a very good contrast of two academic schools), but you could look at James Madison (not as academic as others you are mentioning but has some good programs and I had a GREAT intern from there), Mary Washington is pretty close to DC.

Depending on what kind of school she is looking at you could also consider Pitt or Carnegie Mellon

And Yes nobody pays retail....

wlu_lax6 wrote:Okay so it sounds like a road trip from KY to Baltimore. Got the slightly southern route (i.e. 81 v 64). Without taking into account $ I would consider the following on your road trip.

Pick one way on the outbound and another on the return

* Richmond
* UVA--Cville is a big enough city
* Maryland College Park
* If you are at JHU you could consider Loyola, MD (although does not sound like it fits the college setting or maybe her academic sites)


If you are going to cruise up the 81 you will pass lots of smaller schools not near cities. It is worth popping in one just to confirm that the bias for a big school near a city is real. I highly recommend Washington & Lee (especially if she is thinking about JHU...creates a very good contrast of two academic schools), but you could look at James Madison (not as academic as others you are mentioning but has some good programs and I had a GREAT intern from there), Mary Washington is pretty close to DC.

Depending on what kind of school she is looking at you could also consider Pitt or Carnegie Mellon

And Yes nobody pays retail....

I came here to say Richmond and UVA. I'm not a fan of College Park at all.

EnochRoot wrote:

wlu_lax6 wrote:Okay so it sounds like a road trip from KY to Baltimore. Got the slightly southern route (i.e. 81 v 64). Without taking into account $ I would consider the following on your road trip.

Pick one way on the outbound and another on the return

* Richmond
* UVA--Cville is a big enough city
* Maryland College Park
* If you are at JHU you could consider Loyola, MD (although does not sound like it fits the college setting or maybe her academic sites)


If you are going to cruise up the 81 you will pass lots of smaller schools not near cities. It is worth popping in one just to confirm that the bias for a big school near a city is real. I highly recommend Washington & Lee (especially if she is thinking about JHU...creates a very good contrast of two academic schools), but you could look at James Madison (not as academic as others you are mentioning but has some good programs and I had a GREAT intern from there), Mary Washington is pretty close to DC.

Depending on what kind of school she is looking at you could also consider Pitt or Carnegie Mellon

And Yes nobody pays retail....

I came here to say Richmond and UVA. I'm not a fan of College Park at all.

Me Neither except for the Hoops, soccer, and lacrosse team. However, academically it is getting stronger and stronger. Especially in the business and engineering schools. My friends who went there loved it though.

Richmond was a gorgeous campus but is Richmond itself a real "big city"?

My niece is a soph at the University of DE and loves it. It's in the area you are visiting and certainly hits the "college feel" and "proximity to a city" marks. Plus she is attending as a non-resident and managed to get the price tag to something somewhat palatable to my wife's sister and brother-in-law.

mister d wrote:Richmond was a gorgeous campus but is Richmond itself a real "big city"?

Looks like it is about same size as Lexington. She doesn't have to have a metropolis, I don't think just wants to have access to things to do that a school in a very secluded setting might not be able to offer. Definitely going to have her look at Richmond to see waht she thinks.

Heard their basketball conference is really exciting.

We have an official scheduled tour and info session on Nov 12 at JHU. Want to do at least one more official, then may try to do a swing through self-tour somehwere else.

You are in my wheel house. We just started one kid in Boston and and have junior in high school. I also attended Hopkins, so I've got a decent handle on the Baltimore scene.

Others have already touched on it, but Loyola is literally right up the road. Towson is a little bit further out, but might present a better campus feel. I mean, not to be snooty, but there's a pretty substantial academic gap between those two and Hopkins.

Depending on what your daughter is thinking of majoring in, you might want to consider a trip to American in DC. VERY good communications and political science programs.

In terms of Boston, I would agree that BU is just a funky campus. It's essentially stretched along the river and feels like it's 2 miles end to end. We didn't really dig it. If you do make a trip up there, I'd strongly suggest looking at Northeastern and Emerson. (Emerson only if she's into Communications or the Arts.)

I'd also suggest taking a look at Fordham in NYC. It has two campuses, one in downtown Manhattan and the main one in the Bronx. It has that Georgetown campus feel, and they provide multiple ways to get into Manhattan. Kind of felt like the best of both worlds. (We also visited NYU and it was just way too much of university wedged into a massive city.)

mister d wrote:Yeah, BC is actually a less urban setting than BU if there's any overlap there, although I think they let you into BU no questions asked if you assure them its not your second choice behind BC or third behind Notre Dame and BC. And maybe a slight counterpoint to the BU comment is that Boston is a very comfortable city and the college definitely doesn't get lost in the neighborhood. If you're looking upscale-college-near-a-major-city, Villanova might be worth a check too since there's very close proximity to Philadelphia with the ability to completely ignore Philadelphia if you're a typical Villanova student. Sounds like you have a pretty smart kid on your hands if she's focusing on heading towards the coast.

Yeah, Boston is very livable as big cities go, and BU isn't in the Financial District or anything, but it's not college campus near a city, it's college campus in a city. (How'd I ever get into, and out of, college and law school with run-ons like that?)

Def hit up Loyola if you all are going to be at Hopkins. Almost right next door to each other. If you want a small liberal arts feel in a big city, there is a school right next to Loyola - Notre Dame of Maryland Universtiy - look that up as well and see if worth your time... another small liberal arts school in Towson is Goucher. Maybe look that one up as well.

If big city private universities are on the table close to Baltimore, don't forget Philly - Temple might be worth a visit too.

ETA - whoops, Temple is public? The more you know...

Everyone's right on BU. If you ask for a river view, its probably the best urban campus in the country. Otherwise it's the world's brickiest subway platform

A_B wrote:

mister d wrote:Richmond was a gorgeous campus but is Richmond itself a real "big city"?

Looks like it is about same size as Lexington. She doesn't have to have a metropolis, I don't think just wants to have access to things to do that a school in a very secluded setting might not be able to offer. Definitely going to have her look at Richmond to see waht she thinks.

I think Richmond has more of a city-style downtown than Lexington. But UR isn't really in that. If Richmond's too small, Charlottesville will be right out. But it's a great town.

And I guess if you want to go a bit farther south, you can check out the Triangle schools. Duke is beautiful and in Durham, which has a downtown and is roughly Richmond-sized. Carolina has a great campus too and has the nice feel of a college town while being pretty close to Durham. And obviously despite your sports hatred of both, they both have a ton of school spirit around their successful athletic departments (not just basketball).

And then you could check out Wake Forest (in Winston-Salem, kind of a dying city) and/or Davidson (just outside of Charlotte).

Didn't see that one coming.

And a huge "NO!" on Temple given the criteria above. Same as La Salle, its a "that way is ok, that way if you're in a group, don't go that way or that way" campus.

Shirley wrote:And I guess if you want to go a bit farther south, you can check out the Triangle schools. Duke is beautiful and in Durham, which has a downtown and is roughly Richmond-sized. Carolina has a great campus too and has the nice feel of a college town while being pretty close to Durham. And obviously despite your sports hatred of both, they both have a ton of school spirit around their successful athletic departments (not just basketball).

And then you could check out Wake Forest (in Winston-Salem, kind of a dying city) and/or Davidson (just outside of Charlotte).

I'm not against Duke or UNC as both are great schools. She doesn't seem to be much interested in going south, however. due east and all points north, at the moment.

tennbengal wrote:Def hit up Loyola if you all are going to be at Hopkins. Almost right next door to each other. If you want a small liberal arts feel in a big city, there is a school right next to Loyola - Notre Dame of Maryland Universtiy - look that up as well and see if worth your time... another small liberal arts school in Towson is Goucher. Maybe look that one up as well.

If big city private universities are on the table close to Baltimore, don't forget Philly - Temple might be worth a visit too.

ETA - whoops, Temple is public? The more you know...

Loyola's price is about 50% higher than Hopkins. All those numbers are pre merit-based scholarships, as well, so it's likely that the real cost will be even lower than what I am looking at, but when her #1 school is also lowest, definitely going to check it out. Maybe we do a Loyola drop in on the campus but nothing official.

Maybe not terribly helpful, but Wash U was in the same athletic conference (the UAA) as Johns Hopkins back when I was there. All of the schools were strong academic schools, mostly in the north east or midwest. Wash U, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, JHU (left eventually), Rochester, Brandeis, NYU, and Emory. Of those, I would think Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, NYU, and Rochester would all fit your daughter's broad requirements.

That said, I didn't much like the campuses of Case Western or Carnegie Mellon. Both are geared toward tech studies as well. Great schools though, if that's what she likes.

If and when you do go to Boston, Brandies is very nice. Beautiful campus and a short train ride into Boston.

Wellesley might be somewhere to look at too, all girls yes, but they share a lot of academics with MIT. Family friend had a daughter that went there and she absolutely loved it. If ends up going there I can get her a job in the library (I'm friends with the circulation department head.)

That's an easy ... and not one I'm willing to go with.

Did I miss area of study? I looked back and didn't see it. Charlottesville is a fun town.

Shirley wrote:Maybe not terribly helpful, but Wash U was in the same athletic conference (the UAA) as Johns Hopkins back when I was there. All of the schools were strong academic schools, mostly in the north east or midwest. Wash U, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, JHU (left eventually), Rochester, Brandeis, NYU, and Emory. Of those, I would think Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, NYU, and Rochester would all fit your daughter's broad requirements.

That said, I didn't much like the campuses of Case Western or Carnegie Mellon. Both are geared toward tech studies as well. Great schools though, if that's what she likes.

Yeah, ditto on Carnegie Mellon... Not sure what it is, but I just didn't like the place. Granted, we visited them in soccer and it was a shitty night and we lost on a PK, so...

testuser2 wrote:Did I miss area of study? I looked back and didn't see it. Charlottesville is a fun town.

You didn't miss it. She doesn't know. Which makes all this a bit harder for sure.

Shirley wrote:Maybe not terribly helpful, but Wash U was in the same athletic conference (the UAA) as Johns Hopkins back when I was there. All of the schools were strong academic schools, mostly in the north east or midwest. Wash U, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, JHU (left eventually), Rochester, Brandeis, NYU, and Emory. Of those, I would think Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, NYU, and Rochester would all fit your daughter's broad requirements.

That said, I didn't much like the campuses of Case Western or Carnegie Mellon. Both are geared toward tech studies as well. Great schools though, if that's what she likes.

[threadjack]

My daughter is probably a D3 level softball player, so I have been looking at D3 programs at schools that match her other filters (wants to be in or near a decent sized city, she's into Communications, not too psyched about going south.)

So, I was looking at the UAA (I think they swapped out a few years before I got to Hopkins, or might've even been transitioning while I was there). Anyways, the point is that I don't understand how that athletic conference makes any sense. That's a bonkers amount of travel for non-revenue earning (to say the least) sports programs.

Do you have any insight on that? Are they all under-written by alumni or something? If I'm a non-athlete student at one of those schools, I'm raising a serious ruckus about the costs associated with a D3 soccer team flying to Atlanta, Boston, St. Louis, Chicago and New York.

[/threadjack]

This is all good info for me, too. My daughter is a junior, and is a very high achiever, but hasn't figured out what she wants to study yet. And, all she says on location is "in a city, west coast or northeast coast". We've got a long ways to go, yet.

Nonlinear FC wrote:

Shirley wrote:Maybe not terribly helpful, but Wash U was in the same athletic conference (the UAA) as Johns Hopkins back when I was there. All of the schools were strong academic schools, mostly in the north east or midwest. Wash U, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, JHU (left eventually), Rochester, Brandeis, NYU, and Emory. Of those, I would think Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, NYU, and Rochester would all fit your daughter's broad requirements.

That said, I didn't much like the campuses of Case Western or Carnegie Mellon. Both are geared toward tech studies as well. Great schools though, if that's what she likes.

[threadjack]

My daughter is probably a D3 level softball player, so I have been looking at D3 programs at schools that match her other filters (wants to be in or near a decent sized city, she's into Communications, not too psyched about going south.)

So, I was looking at the UAA (I think they swapped out a few years before I got to Hopkins, or might've even been transitioning while I was there). Anyways, the point is that I don't understand how that athletic conference makes any sense. That's a bonkers amount of travel for non-revenue earning (to say the least) sports programs.

Do you have any insight on that? Are they all under-written by alumni or something? If I'm a non-athlete student at one of those schools, I'm raising a serious ruckus about the costs associated with a D3 soccer team flying to Atlanta, Boston, St. Louis, Chicago and New York.

[/threadjack]

No, we're too busy congratulating ourselves for being in such a strong academic conference. There's a lot of elitism built in there. For me, I was on the track team, and we only competed against those other schools once per season - at the conference meet.

mister d wrote:Richmond was a gorgeous campus but is Richmond itself a real "big city"?

Compared to most college towns, I think so.

Back to the topic at hand... If we are talking about NC, I would add UNC-Wilmington to the list. Wilmington is a decent sized city with character, and she'd be right next to some really good beaches... if she's into that sort of thing.

Elon is another to look at, though it's about 20 minutes outside of Greensboro. I hear the town adjacent to campus is "quaint." But, really, the reason I find it intriguing is that it's growing in size and stature at a pretty tremendous rate. Basically, they started a drive in the 90s to turn it into a legit school (it's reputation was pretty shitty when I was looking at schools in the late 80s). They had multiple fundraising drives and by 2005 or so, they were being called one of fastest rising schools in the country.

I kind of see it like a Northeastern, where 15 - 20 years ago they were a nondescript commuting school without a lot of character. Now they are 39th on US News, they have updated most of their facilities, and there's a significant buzz about where they're headed.

A bunch of the southern schools have made leaps. You look at schools like Elon, Davidson, Sewanee (School of the South), UNC-W, and SCAD. These all seem to be moving up academic rankings all of the time (while providing great atmosphere).

I think Davidson has always been a pretty strong school.

Quite a few Univ of the South (Sewanee) grads here in Tampa for some reason. It sounds very similar to Davidson, and makes me jealous that I didn't go to either.

govmentchedda wrote:Quite a few Univ of the South (Sewanee) grads here in Tampa for some reason. It sounds very similar to Davidson, and makes me jealous that I didn't go to either.

I enjoyed college, but wish I had gone somewhere that had more than low to middling athletic success.

wlu_lax6 wrote:A bunch of the southern schools have made leaps. You look at schools like Elon, Davidson, Sewanee (School of the South), UNC-W, and SCAD. These all seem to be moving up academic rankings all of the time (while providing great atmosphere).

My wife went to Elon, back when it was just a college. It's a full-fledged university now. She's maintained a relationship with a couple of her professors, and obviously the lifelong friends she met there at school.

Rush2112 wrote:

govmentchedda wrote:Quite a few Univ of the South (Sewanee) grads here in Tampa for some reason. It sounds very similar to Davidson, and makes me jealous that I didn't go to either.

I enjoyed college, but wish I had gone somewhere that had more than low to middling athletic success.

I did have the big time SEC school experience with all that goes along with it, including the first FB National Championship for the school. It was fun, but I think I would have gotten more out of a smaller school experience.

govmentchedda wrote:

Rush2112 wrote:

govmentchedda wrote:Quite a few Univ of the South (Sewanee) grads here in Tampa for some reason. It sounds very similar to Davidson, and makes me jealous that I didn't go to either.

I enjoyed college, but wish I had gone somewhere that had more than low to middling athletic success.

I did have the big time SEC school experience with all that goes along with it, including the first FB National Championship for the school. It was fun, but I think I would have gotten more out of a smaller school experience.

I hear ya. UNM is pretty big, but ver departmental. I am glad that I went to somewhere kind of big as it broke me out my small town mentality, but I think I would have enjoyed UGA (another top choice) or the like.

Back to the Boston schools, if you look at BU you should also go to BC for the contrast. They are about 3 miles apart, straight shot down Commonwealth Ave, but completely different schools. Ryan nailed it with BU being a brick subway platform. I liked the campus for grad school, but for undergrad, I preferred having a true campus, separated from the city. BC has a great campus feel, but you are a short train ride into the city, and even a short walk into more urban environs.

The sense I had of BC, and this is 15+ years ago, was extremely preppy kids. Not quite the country club Biff and Muffys, but close. Everyone dressed the same and seemed like really plain vanilla frat boy types. BU undergrad, the girls anyways, seemed like the product of trophy wives. Lots of really rich, hot chicks and designer high end clothing. Mostly black. The clothes, not the girls. There were a ton of uber-wealthy kids from Asia, though the Asian market collapse sent most of them home. Just completely opposite ends of the spectrum campus wise. I knew a couple of girls who went to Brandeis. Seems like a nice school, but you may have to have your daughter Bat Mitzvahed to get in.