MLB Offseason 2016-17

[Ryan]

Hey, who votes for the Hall of Fame by the way?

[Giff]

Pretty nice day for the Astros lineup yesterday.

[mister d]

Kinda surprised at the lack of top-ish end return but he may have limited the teams he'd accept and I'm just sort of happy he's gone. Never liked him and now hopefully he can grow out some facial hair and look less like a mad turtle.

[mister d]

Don't have an answer on how to fix it but it's obvious a lot of these guys don't give a fuck or really put much effort into their voting.

If they really cared, there would be a little committee to identify outliers (leaving Verlander off your ballot / voting for David Segui for HoF) and then have the voter justify their vote. If its laziness / pettiness / attention grabbing, suspend their vote the next year.



(LOL just kidding, we know the BBWAA and institutions like that don't believe in accountability.)

[rass]

As much fun as some people make of PK and his veneration for the pro football HoF selection process, I guess it is much more similar to what you're describing?

[EnochRoot]

Kinda surprised at the lack of top-ish end return but he may have limited the teams he'd accept and I'm just sort of happy he's gone. Never liked him and now hopefully he can grow out some facial hair and look less like a mad turtle.

The arms they got back may well turn out to be of value down the line...But the guy I wanted was Joe Musgrove. Fastball, slider and changeup guy with impeccable control. Oy.

I think the quality of return they got back was largely due to how much they were willing to eat of the $ owed McCann though..

[Ryan]

As much fun as some people make of PK and his veneration for the pro football HoF selection process, I guess it is much more similar to what you're describing?

And Kate Upton is there.

[mister d]

As much fun as some people make of PK and his veneration for the pro football HoF selection process, I guess it is much more similar to what you're describing?

Hell yeah, man. I'd still mock the tone, but atleast the process would be correct.

[mister d]

The arms they got back may well turn out to be of value down the line...But the guy I wanted was Joe Musgrove. Fastball, slider and changeup guy with impeccable control. Oy.

I think the quality of return they got back was largely due to how much they were willing to eat of the $ owed McCann though..

Musgrove is a weirdo. Looks like he should throw 100.

I don't want to think about the money thing; I'd prefer it was the Astros being one of the few destinations and protecting their better prospects and the Yankees conceding that but just reducing the money on principle.

[sancarlos]

I guess the Yankees are convinced Gary Sanchez is the real deal for the long haul. What are the odds he becomes the best Yankee catcher since Thurman Munson? And, what are the odds that he falls on his face in a big sophomore slump?

[mister d]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Thurman Munson isn't the best Yankees catcher since Thurman Munson.

[sancarlos]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Thurmon Munson isn't the best Yankees catcher since Thurmon Munson.

You think Posada was better? I'm usually very deferential to an advanced stats argument, but imho, Munson also brought a lot of leadership, heart and guts, too. [/old guy]

[Giff]

Kinda surprised at the lack of top-ish end return but he may have limited the teams he'd accept and I'm just sort of happy he's gone. Never liked him and now hopefully he can grow out some facial hair and look less like a mad turtle.

I hate unwritten rules of baseball, so I'm not going to like him all that much.

[mister d]

You think Posada was better? I'm usually very deferential to an advanced stats argument, but imho, Munson also brought a lot of leadership, heart and guts, too. [/old guy]

Munson's top comp on BR is Yadier Molina. Sooooooo ...



(Posada's age 33-retirement comp is Fisk.)

[EnochRoot]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Thurman Munson isn't the best Yankees catcher since Thurman Munson.

Munson was a lot better than Jorge Posada, and if Sanchez' arm is as good as the runners he's gunned down suggests it is, I'm going to be a happy camper.

[mister d]

There's eventually going to be tremendous retrospective love for Posada's ranking as an all-time great offensive catcher.

[Joe K]

There's eventually going to be tremendous retrospective love for Posada's ranking as an all-time great offensive catcher.

Agreed. Because of its importance defensively, I think there's a tendency to somewhat underrate the value of elite offensive catchers.

[mister d]

Which is kind of funny because the poster boy for defensive "you're mistaking passable at the major league level for actual badness" was his teammate.

[brian]

Dietrich Enns makes Yankees 40-man roster. Guess they figured he'd be a Rule 5 pick.

[DC47]

Which is kind of funny because the poster boy for defensive "you're mistaking passable at the major league level for actual badness" was his teammate.

Jeter was pretty bad in the field for most of his career. Towards the end, he was terrible. Would he make the Hall so easily if he had been moved to a position where he was even (potentially) major-league slightly-below-average for a starter, like CF or 3B?

[DC47]

Munson > Posada. But only one > sign. And Munson's early death makes it a difficult comparison. So too, the lack of advanced defensive metrics for both. I'm assuming a big advantage to Munson.

[mister d]

Would he make the Hall so easily if he had been moved to a position where he was even (potentially) major-league slightly-below-average for a starter, like CF or 3B?

1. Craig Biggio (825) *
2. Paul Molitor (798) *
3. Robin Yount (793) *
4. Roberto Alomar (752) *
5. Charlie Gehringer (729) *
6. Cal Ripken (720) *
7. Joe Morgan (700) *
8. Ivan Rodriguez (700)
9. Johnny Damon (695)
10. Eddie Collins (695) *

[mister d]

And he probably would have been a very solid 3B with Rodriguez at SS. He had the hands and arm, could play balls in the air and go right pretty well. The whole "going left" thing would have been mitigated over there.

[DC47]

I agree that Jeter might have been adequate or even better at third. Probably a bit less likely at second or CF. But quite possible. If he had to play LF, his HOF case would go downhill quite a bit unless he was surprisingly good at it.

What are the numbers to the right of the list of players?

[mister d]

Its a similarity score. He's a safe HoFer unless you're moving him to 1B or something.

[DC47]

I agree he's safe even if he played a mediocre 3B or CF. Less so at 1B or LF. And this is especially so as I think HOF standards are a bit low.

Several of those guys play premium positions (C, SS) or were great defenders, or both (e.g., Pudge). I don't think they are good comps except as hitters.

But, without looking at stats, I think Yount is a decent comp for what Jeter might have been if he had been moved to CF or 3B for, say, the back half of his career and could play well out there. In the real world where he was exclusively a SS, I think Jeter was about as good as Larkin and Trammel. But of course, I think both of those guys are above-average compared to shortstops in the HOF. Larkin is in, and Trammel should obviously join him. This makes Jeter much less than a no-brainer first-ballot HOF player in my view. But of course, he will be. This will be assured by being a golden age Yankee, the shroud of his mystique, and (especially) getting out before defensive metrics get good (and are better accepted).

[mister d]

That's where he gets underrated. Better rate stat hitter despite playing for a lot longer than either Larkin or Trammell.

[EnochRoot]

Gleyber Torres' HOF ticket gets punched in the year 2042.

[mister d]

So he's retiring at 40???

[EnochRoot]

So he's retiring at 40???

Not at all. His numbers wound up being so absurd the Hall of Fame waived the five year waiting period.

[DC47]

That's where he gets underrated. Better rate stat hitter despite playing for a lot longer than either Larkin or Trammell.

True. But vastly weaker at SS. Larkin and Trammell were among the top 10% of SS starters for most of their careers. Jeter in the bottom 20%. At SS this makes a big difference.

[EnochRoot]

That's where he gets underrated. Better rate stat hitter despite playing for a lot longer than either Larkin or Trammell.

True. But vastly weaker at SS. Larkin and Trammell were among the top 10% of SS starters for most of their careers. Jeter in the bottom 20%. At SS this makes a big difference.

Larkin's problem is he couldn't stay healthy enough to make a serious assault on 3,000 hits. Still, he's in the HOF due to his balance of a great glove and a dynamic bat.

Derek Jeter is 6th all time in hits, and he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer because of it. Obviously it won't hurt him that he was a 14x all star and owns 5 World Series rings as a New York Yankee, But the "golden age" talk is entirely inconsequential.

He always had range problems to his right. That's what tanked his defensive metrics. His fielding % is about equal to Trammell's, and a tick above Larkin's.

[mister d]

Listen, you have the tangibles, but consider how wide my application of the intangibles might be.

[A_B]

Your intangible range is epic to the left I agree

[mister d]

"Oh, oh, ok, 150 more career HR. But consider I say his defense is worse and we should reset to even, ok?"

[DC47]

Larkin's problem is he couldn't stay healthy enough to make a serious assault on 3,000 hits. Still, he's in the HOF due to his balance of a great glove and a dynamic bat.

Derek Jeter is 6th all time in hits, and he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer because of it.

No doubt. Longevity is good. But I probably place less emphasis on counting stats than you may.

Obviously it won't hurt him that he was a 14x all star and owns 5 World Series rings as a New York Yankee, But the "golden age" talk is entirely inconsequential.

Uh, right. ESPN is no doubt also irrelevant.

He always had range problems to his right. That's what tanked his defensive metrics. His fielding % is about equal to Trammell's, and a tick above Larkin's.

He was a bad fielder. That it was largely due to his range in one direction doesn't make this less factual.

Still, Jeter was a great player. In my personal HOF where merit matters more than it does at Coopersown and thus the bottom third enshrined there is simply tossed out, Jeter would still make the cut. But he wouldn't be one of the best in the DC47 HOF. It might take a few ballots, depending on the competition. In the real world one, he'll no doubt make it on the first ballot, as one of the most over-rated ever.

[DC47]

"Oh, oh, ok, 150 more career HR. But consider I say his defense is worse and we should reset to even, ok?"

Quite possibly. I haven't looked at it in ages. But I recall credible advanced stats that put Jeter in the same class as Larkin and Trammell. Seems about right to me. Jeter is lucky his career ended before better defensive stats were developed. Of he might not actually be in that class after all.

[EnochRoot]

Larkin's problem is he couldn't stay healthy enough to make a serious assault on 3,000 hits. Still, he's in the HOF due to his balance of a great glove and a dynamic bat.

Derek Jeter is 6th all time in hits, and he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer because of it.

No doubt. Longevity is good. But I probably place less emphasis on counting stats than you may.

Obviously it won't hurt him that he was a 14x all star and owns 5 World Series rings as a New York Yankee, But the "golden age" talk is entirely inconsequential.

Uh, right. ESPN is no doubt also irrelevant.

He always had range problems to his right. That's what tanked his defensive metrics. His fielding % is about equal to Trammell's, and a tick above Larkin's.

He was a bad fielder. That it was largely due to his range in one direction doesn't make this less factual.

Still, Jeter was a great player. In my personal HOF where merit matters more than it does at Coopersown and thus the bottom third enshrined there is simply tossed out, Jeter would still make the cut. But he wouldn't be one of the best in the DC47 HOF. It might take a few ballots, depending on the competition. In the real world one, he'll no doubt make it on the first ballot, as one of the most over-rated ever.

Is it your intent to drop scorching #HotTakes? In what world would 6th All Time Hits not warrant first ballot consideration? I have no idea why you mentioned the bottom third of the HOF. Jeter's entering the HOF in rarified air. He's not bottom third, despite the incendiary nature of your take here.

Are there guys who are in the Hall that shouldn't be? Yeah. Are there guys who aren't in that probably deserve to be? You bet. But to suggest Jeter would need to wait for the right year based on the competition? That's nonsense.

[mister d]

That's where he gets underrated. Better rate stat hitter despite playing for a lot longer than either Larkin or Trammell.

In the real world one, he'll no doubt make it on the first ballot, as one of the most over-rated ever.

Which is kind of funny because the poster boy for defensive "you're mistaking passable at the major league level for actual badness" was his teammate.

Jeter is lucky his career ended before better defensive stats were developed. Of he might not actually be in that class after all.

/fin

[rass]

Um? Oh, and what?

Eight Texas Rangers prospects were questioned by police in the Dominican Republic after a video showed a group of players sexually assaulting an underage teammate in a hazing incident that targeted players new to the team’s Dominican complex, sources familiar with the case told Yahoo Sports.

While prosecutors in the Dominican Republic have yet to press charges for the alleged assault, they told the court they intend to charge at least four players who held down a teammate and masturbated him, sources told Yahoo Sports.

Among those expected to be charged are the younger brother of Rangers second baseman Rougned Odor, also named Rougned, and Yohel Pozo, a top catching prospect, both 19 years old. The players facing potential charges have been told not to leave the country, according to sources.