The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

[rass]

hey

[Joe K]

President due process

I hate playing the "If Obama had said this..." game, but if a Democratic President had said something like this, Republicans would be drawing up Articles of Impeachment...and they'd probably be justified in doing so.

They absolutely would not be justified in drawing up Articles of Impeachment. And I don't see anything legally or morally objectionable about what Trump said. We already, in multiple contexts, have procedures that remove the imminent danger first, and then provide for due process second. Take involuntary mental health commitment. If my family or co-workers (or the police) think I'm having a psychotic break and am a danger to myself or others, they can have me immediately committed against my will. Eventually, a judge must hold a hearing to assess the reasonableness of my continued commitment, but that due process comes after the initial commitment. The same is true of orders of protection: at least in many states the alleged victim can obtain an ex parte 10-day restraining order. Before extending that order, the judge must allow the other side to come in and present evidence. But the same idea holds: we address the imminent danger of violence first and provide full due process later.

Think about the logistics here too with someone like Cruz. If someone reported to law enforcement that they were really concerned that he was planning an imminent mass shooting, isn't there a risk in allowing him to hold his guns while we give him notice of the allegations, schedule a hearing before a judge, subpoena witnesses, etc.? Isn't the better trade off to confiscate his guns for the interim period before a hearing can be held? So while I'm admittedly extremely anti-gun, and would be fine with repealing the Second Amendment altogether, I also really don't think this is a good example of a case where Democrats should play the "what if Obama said it" game.

[rass]

My "President due process" comment was in reference to Trump's whining about due process during the Porter controversy last month.

Yesterday's press conference was sort of what I always figured "best" case scenario could be with him, but I have no doubt someone will get in his ear, explain the political inexpediency of pissing off the NRA and he'll do a full reversal. Unless F&F went all in on supporting his comments (this is one morning where maybe I should have looked for the Fox News TV at the gym)..

[Joe K]

I agree that Trump will likely just fall in line with the NRA. But I worry that the Democrats will view his unartfully worded comments about due process as an opportunity to poke fun or score points with swing voters, as opposed to a potential opening for reasonable gun control. If I were Schumer or Pelosi, I’d be in Trump’s ear as much as possible reminding him of his comments yesterday that he’d be able to succeed where Obama couldn’t and get meaningful gun control passed. Who cares if he’s just motivated by ego — IMO, the upside to gun control legislation is worth handing him that “victory.”

[A_B]

I agree that Trump will likely just fall in line with the NRA. But I worry that the Democrats will view his unartfully worded comments about due process as an opportunity to poke fun or score points with swing voters, as opposed to a potential opening for reasonable gun control. If I were Schumer or Pelosi, I’d be in Trump’s ear as much as possible reminding him of his comments yesterday that he’d be able to succeed where Obama couldn’t and get meaningful gun control passed. Who cares if he’s just motivated by ego — IMO, the upside to gun control legislation is worth handing him that “victory.”

This will sound cynical,but the dems should only do that AFTER the mid terms. Don't give these people anything to hang their hat on.

[brian]

I'm not sure the timing matters. Even if you assume the Dems could get enough votes in the House (which they wouldn't/couldn't), it's not a victory that's going to drive R turnout in the midterms. If anything, it might convince more Republicans to stay at home.

[The Sybian]

I would love to see a chronological list of gun control stances Trump has taken in the past 2 weeks. He has agreed with, and opposed, every single idea mentioned to him. He has absolutely no clue, and no interest in understanding the issues. I feel like he is searching for the words to say to make the conversation end, and that changes depending on the audience. I really enjoy watching people chastise him, and he crosses his arms and seethes. I'm expecting him to turn into a cartoon with a rising line of redness creeping over his face followed by steam shooting out his ears and eyes with a teapot whistle.

[degenerasian]

Congress just needs to put something on his desk. He said he would sign anything.
And if he doesn't sign it then call him a coward. But as it stands now, he can say whatever he wants.

[P.D.X.]

Congress just needs to put something on his desk. He said he would sign anything.
And if he doesn't sign it then call him a coward. But as it stands now, he can say whatever he wants.

So, basically what he said for immigration.

[Rex]

I would love to see a chronological list of gun control stances Trump has taken in the past 2 weeks. He has agreed with, and opposed, every single idea mentioned to him. He has absolutely no clue, and no interest in understanding the issues. I feel like he is searching for the words to say to make the conversation end, and that changes depending on the audience. I really enjoy watching people chastise him, and he crosses his arms and seethes. I'm expecting him to turn into a cartoon with a rising line of redness creeping over his face followed by steam shooting out his ears and eyes with a teapot whistle.

But the weird thing here is he can make the conversation end simply by talking about something else. Because whatever he wants to talk about on a given day, that's what all the lemmings end up talking about. Surely he knows that, it may be the only thing he actually understands. So why keep talking about it?

[The Sybian]

I would love to see a chronological list of gun control stances Trump has taken in the past 2 weeks. He has agreed with, and opposed, every single idea mentioned to him. He has absolutely no clue, and no interest in understanding the issues. I feel like he is searching for the words to say to make the conversation end, and that changes depending on the audience. I really enjoy watching people chastise him, and he crosses his arms and seethes. I'm expecting him to turn into a cartoon with a rising line of redness creeping over his face followed by steam shooting out his ears and eyes with a teapot whistle.

But the weird thing here is he can make the conversation end simply by talking about something else. Because whatever he wants to talk about on a given day, that's what all the lemmings end up talking about. Surely he knows that, it may be the only thing he actually understands. So why keep talking about it?

I meant when he is in a room addressing people, like the Governors' conference, or the Parkland families.

[Pruitt]

[rass]

It's easy!

[tennbengal]

Is that the Onion?

[Rex]

[A_B]

It's easy!

So sick of winning.

[sancarlos]

WASHINGTON — A day after President Donald Trump stunned many by appearing to embrace gun control, Warriors head coach Steve Kerr compared Trump to a fictional, dimwitted weather forecaster in San Diego.

“I think he had forgotten which side he was on,” Kerr said of Trump’s new stance on gun control. “It reminded me of ‘Anchorman’ when Brick ends up on the wrong side of a fight, and he’s like, ‘Yeah!’ They’re like, ‘No, Brick, you’re on this side,’ and he’s like, ‘Oh, OK.’”

[EnochRoot]

I'm Ron Burgundy?

[Johnnie]

So Hope Hicks got tired and turned off by his advances, but ended up tricking herself into liking him and fucking him anyway. Makes sense.

[sancarlos]

So Hope Hicks got tired and turned off by his advances, but ended up tricking herself into liking him and fucking him anyway. Makes sense.

Plot of an upcoming porn video?

[degenerasian]

So Hope Hicks got tired and turned off by his advances, but ended up tricking herself into liking him and fucking him anyway. Makes sense.

Plot of an upcoming porn video?

Absolutely, I think porn has parodied everything.

nsfw

[+] spoiler

[L-Jam3]

Maybe that’s the musical I need to show the woman to prep her for her first Broadway show.

[Brontoburglar]

what a shitshow

[Steve of phpBB]

what a shitshow

Apparently Fox and Friends aired an ad in favor of steel tariffs that morning.

[degenerasian]

EU knows where to hit back to get the attention of those who are really in charge

The European Union is weighing potential tariffs on U.S. goods ranging from Levi's jeans to Harley-Davidson motorcycles, the president of the EU's legislative body said Friday.

The proposed tariffs come in response to President Trump's Thursday announcement that he will impose a 25 percent tariff on steel imports and a 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports next week.

"We will put tariffs on Harley-Davidson, on bourbon and on blue jeans — Levi's,” European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said on German television, according to Reuters.

Trump's announcement has drawn condemnation across the globe, with several countries threatening retaliation if he imposes the duties.

"We would like a reasonable relationship to the United States, but we cannot simply put our head in the sand," Juncker said.

The products listed by Juncker appeared to target industries based in the home states of congressional leaders. Harley-Davidson is based in Wisconsin, the home state of Speaker Paul Ryan (R); Levi Strauss & Co. is headquartered in House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's (D) hometown of San Francisco; and bourbon is made in Kentucky, the home state of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R).

[The Sybian]

what a shitshow

Apparently Fox and Friends aired an ad in favor of steel tariffs that morning.

What incredible luck for longtime Trump friend and advisor Carl Icahn, he just sold his $31 Million holding in a company heavily dependent on the price of steel.

Trump clearly has no concept of how tariffs work, and it's frightening. I don't see how the GOP can trust him in power, because he will turn on their strongest held beliefs, like free trade and blocking gun restrictions, without notice, or within hours of promising not to impose limits of gun rights. A bunch of GOP Congressmen and pundits who usually support Trump came out bashing him. Shitshow is the best descriptor. Even Tucker Carlson did a segment blasting Trump for his comment that he wants to take guns first, then give due process after. Carlson said that if Obama said that, he and his ilk would have called him a dictator and called for his impeachment. Of course, he prefaced by saying Trump is great, and has defeated Liberals, who must be stopped because they all hate this country and your freedoms. He is such a despicable worm.

[P.D.X.]

Yeah it kills me that "they're gonna take away our gunz and freedomz" still works after 8 years of no one's guns or freedom being taken away. But this time they really will!

[Rex]

what a shitshow

Apparently Fox and Friends aired an ad in favor of steel tariffs that morning.

Oh that's just great. Next week's policy proposal will be "Call J.G. Wentworth"

[Pruitt]

Paul Ryan Doesn't Like Tariffs

[Pruitt]

Former Trump Aide Ignoring Mueller Subpoena

Can you actually do that? Isn;t there a penalty for not appearing before a grand jury?

[brian]

Former Trump Aide Ignoring Mueller Subpoena

Can you actually do that? Isn;t there a penalty for not appearing before a grand jury?

Yeah, not complying with a federal grand jury subpoena could result in arrest for contempt of court and possibly some other charges as well. Assuming Nunberg isn't just putting on an act and actually follows through, Mueller could have him arrested. If he does so would depend on a lot of factors up to and including not wanting to set a precedent for future Trumpkins who try and pull the same act.

[govmentchedda]

Former Trump Aide Ignoring Mueller Subpoena

Can you actually do that? Isn;t there a penalty for not appearing before a grand jury?

No. Yes, likely contempt.

[brian]

For whatever it's worth, when you hear of journalists going to jail rather than exposing a source (arguably the biggest badge of honor in a professional journalist's career), 90+ percent of the time it is for ignoring a grand jury subpoena or something of that nature.

[Steve of phpBB]

For whatever it's worth, when you hear of journalists going to jail rather than exposing a source (arguably the biggest badge of honor in a professional journalist's career), 90+ percent of the time it is for ignoring a grand jury subpoena or something of that nature.

And while there is a body of legal authority that provides a privilege for journalists to refuse to testify, there is no such privilege for former campaign aides.

One can object to a subpoena for being unduly burdensome, and theoretically he could raise an objection to portions of the document subpoena, but I doubt that would go very far.

[brian]

For whatever it's worth, when you hear of journalists going to jail rather than exposing a source (arguably the biggest badge of honor in a professional journalist's career), 90+ percent of the time it is for ignoring a grand jury subpoena or something of that nature.

And while there is a body of legal authority that provides a privilege for journalists to refuse to testify, there is no such privilege for former campaign aides.

One can object to a subpoena for being unduly burdensome, and theoretically he could raise an objection to portions of the document subpoena, but I doubt that would go very far.

Yeah, good point to clarify. I wasn't trying to equate the two, just pointing out that some people wonder how it's possible for journalists to go to jail for "doing their jobs", but it's almost always going to be for contempt of court.

[brian]

This is pretty concise.

[brian]

Nunberg decided to follow his batshit crazy interview on MSNBC by calling in to CNN and doubling down on the crazy. There's a legit chance he's high on something.

[The Sybian]

Nunberg decided to follow his batshit crazy interview on MSNBC by calling in to CNN and doubling down on the crazy. There's a legit chance he's high on something.

I've seen a bunch of interviews he's done in the past couple of weeks. He is clearly not mentally stable. I don't know if he was always like this or snapped, but I know everyone supposedly hated him and nobody respected him while he was working for Trump, so maybe he was always nuts. The MSNBC interview is great. Katy Tur asks if he is prepared to go to jail, and he sneered and said Mueller wouldn't go after him. Tur points out that Mueller needs t set the precedence, otherwise everyone will refuse to comply. He made it sound like it's too much effort to produce the documents, so shouldn't have to. He also said he doesn't want to produce anything negative about his mentor and idol, Steve Bannon, but he is confident Mueller has Trump nailed for crimes. Fucking loon.

[mister d]

40th (I can't remember what dimension we're on now) dimensional chess pretending he's insane in interviews so nothing he ever said or wrote will matter.

[P.D.X.]

Mueller seems like the type that'll just let things slide.