Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am
It's the sixth version of The Swamp. What could possibly go wrong?
http://www.sportsfrog.net/phpbb/
Yup. To them the otherside is much worse.Joe K wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:28 am Being a Republican critic of Trump is the easiest way to get TV time or newspaper space. People so desperately want to believe that there will be a bipartisan groundswell against Trump that even obvious frauds like Christie get a platform. When in fact the party and its voters have completely fallen in line, and Trump has like a 90% approval rating among the GOP electorate.
True, Giuliani said that once a President is impeached, than he could be charged, but what kind of an analogy is that for a representative of the President to use?Giuliani: Under constitution, Trump could shoot Comey and not be indicted
If only it were so simple to say that Trump is only getting support from poor, uneducated white people. The fact that he has an 87% approval rating among Republicans shows that there are an awful lot of people with advanced degrees and six-figure salaries who are supporting him.L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:58 am But whatabout Obummer? He should've never been elected? He wasn't born here!
Fucking shitbags. It's too bad we can't use the word "contards" like they do. What a fucking joke. The liberals are the ones with the advanced degrees and the six-figure white collar jobs.
sure! for the tax breaks!Joe K wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:19 amIf only it were so simple to say that Trump is only getting support from poor, uneducated white people. The fact that he has an 87% approval rating among Republicans shows that there are an awful lot of people with advanced degrees and six-figure salaries who are supporting him.L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:58 am But whatabout Obummer? He should've never been elected? He wasn't born here!
Fucking shitbags. It's too bad we can't use the word "contards" like they do. What a fucking joke. The liberals are the ones with the advanced degrees and the six-figure white collar jobs.
Yeah, I'd guess 80% of corporate vice presidents consistently vote Republican.Joe K wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:19 amIf only it were so simple to say that Trump is only getting support from poor, uneducated white people. The fact that he has an 87% approval rating among Republicans shows that there are an awful lot of people with advanced degrees and six-figure salaries who are supporting him.L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:58 am But whatabout Obummer? He should've never been elected? He wasn't born here!
Fucking shitbags. It's too bad we can't use the word "contards" like they do. What a fucking joke. The liberals are the ones with the advanced degrees and the six-figure white collar jobs.
So when the Dems fuck up the mid-terms, he can pardon himself and congress will say a clean slate is necessary to move the country forward.Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 pm I feel like there's a Trailer Park Boys parody for Trump about "self pardon myself."
So there's a paradox here, right? He pardons himself so that means he has to admit guilt. Which means there's grounds to impeach and eventually remove. So what he's saying is that "I'm insulated by Congress. Do something."
TPM already finger pointing at Bernie.mister d wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:50 amSo when the Dems fuck up the mid-terms, he can pardon himself and congress will say a clean slate is necessary to move the country forward.Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 pm I feel like there's a Trailer Park Boys parody for Trump about "self pardon myself."
So there's a paradox here, right? He pardons himself so that means he has to admit guilt. Which means there's grounds to impeach and eventually remove. So what he's saying is that "I'm insulated by Congress. Do something."
A lot of strong Trump supporters have already said if Trump pardons himself, he will immediately be impeached. Of course, they have said a lot of things, then said the exact opposite once Trump changed the game board. Rachel Maddow had a really interesting point about the indicted Russians and Russian company running the troll farm. If Trump tries to preemptively pardon every potential target of the Mueller probe to justify ending the probe, he will have to pardon 13 Russians and a Russian company indicted for crimes of disrupting our Presidential election. None of the Russians will ever stand trial, but the optics of pardoning hostile foreigners for crimes of tampering with our Presidential election would be a massive move. I've been shocked at how much the GOP Congressmen have allowed Trump to get away with, but could they risk the legacy of letting this happen?Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 pm I feel like there's a Trailer Park Boys parody for Trump about "self pardon myself."
So there's a paradox here, right? He pardons himself so that means he has to admit guilt. Which means there's grounds to impeach and eventually remove. So what he's saying is that "I'm insulated by Congress. Do something."
Uh, yes. They're craven power hoarders who will stop at nothing to maintain a disgustingly lopsided inequality state while wrapping themselves in the flag and Jesus. Donald Trump would have had articles of impeachment drawn up by the House and a conviction in the Senate by now if these people had any honor.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:24 pm ... but could they risk the legacy of letting this happen?
I'd guess he wouldn't pardon the Russians, because they won't ever stand trial in the U.S. anyway, and the optics wouldn't be good for his nationalist supporters. He'll just pardon the good 'Muricans.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:24 pmA lot of strong Trump supporters have already said if Trump pardons himself, he will immediately be impeached. Of course, they have said a lot of things, then said the exact opposite once Trump changed the game board. Rachel Maddow had a really interesting point about the indicted Russians and Russian company running the troll farm. If Trump tries to preemptively pardon every potential target of the Mueller probe to justify ending the probe, he will have to pardon 13 Russians and a Russian company indicted for crimes of disrupting our Presidential election. None of the Russians will ever stand trial, but the optics of pardoning hostile foreigners for crimes of tampering with our Presidential election would be a massive move. I've been shocked at how much the GOP Congressmen have allowed Trump to get away with, but could they risk the legacy of letting this happen?Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 pm I feel like there's a Trailer Park Boys parody for Trump about "self pardon myself."
So there's a paradox here, right? He pardons himself so that means he has to admit guilt. Which means there's grounds to impeach and eventually remove. So what he's saying is that "I'm insulated by Congress. Do something."
WRT indicting the Russians, I always saw that as setting the foundation of a crime to indict Americans of conspiracy to commit these crimes.
The point Maddow was making was that Trump's legal team's memo to Mueller was a sign they intended to pardon everyone to end the probe. If there are open indictments, even if only against foreign people who will never stand trial in the US, the argument for ending the probe is gone.sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:05 pmI'd guess he wouldn't pardon the Russians, because they won't ever stand trial in the U.S. anyway, and the optics wouldn't be good for his nationalist supporters. He'll just pardon the good 'Muricans.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:24 pmA lot of strong Trump supporters have already said if Trump pardons himself, he will immediately be impeached. Of course, they have said a lot of things, then said the exact opposite once Trump changed the game board. Rachel Maddow had a really interesting point about the indicted Russians and Russian company running the troll farm. If Trump tries to preemptively pardon every potential target of the Mueller probe to justify ending the probe, he will have to pardon 13 Russians and a Russian company indicted for crimes of disrupting our Presidential election. None of the Russians will ever stand trial, but the optics of pardoning hostile foreigners for crimes of tampering with our Presidential election would be a massive move. I've been shocked at how much the GOP Congressmen have allowed Trump to get away with, but could they risk the legacy of letting this happen?Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:06 pm I feel like there's a Trailer Park Boys parody for Trump about "self pardon myself."
So there's a paradox here, right? He pardons himself so that means he has to admit guilt. Which means there's grounds to impeach and eventually remove. So what he's saying is that "I'm insulated by Congress. Do something."
WRT indicting the Russians, I always saw that as setting the foundation of a crime to indict Americans of conspiracy to commit these crimes.
I don't mean short-term image, but 20 - 50 years from now, no matter how much support lobbyists and donors give, history will not look kindly on Republicans who let a criminal President pardon himself and everyone involved in a conspiracy to rig the Presidential election. I don't see any way in which the future does not project Trump for what he is, and make us all look foolish for electing such a blatantly obvious conman and mentally ill wannabe tyrant with absolutely no understanding of the government he runs, diplomacy, or any of the issues other than how to abuse the system to line his pockets.
Counterpoint: Reagan and Bush I are lionized in American political culture despite their roles in the Iran-Contra scandal and the subsequent pardons. He’ll never be popular with Dems or independents but I bet that in 40 years Republicans will talk about Trump the same way they talk about Reagan today.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pmI don't mean short-term image, but 20 - 50 years from now, no matter how much support lobbyists and donors give, history will not look kindly on Republicans who let a criminal President pardon himself and everyone involved in a conspiracy to rig the Presidential election.
6 years from Nixon's resignation to Reagan's election.Joe K wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:33 pmCounterpoint: Reagan and Bush I are lionized in American political culture despite their roles in the Iran-Contra scandal and the subsequent pardons. He’ll never be popular with Dems or independents but I bet that in 40 years Republicans will talk about Trump the same way they talk about Reagan today.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pmI don't mean short-term image, but 20 - 50 years from now, no matter how much support lobbyists and donors give, history will not look kindly on Republicans who let a criminal President pardon himself and everyone involved in a conspiracy to rig the Presidential election.
I'm legitimately starting to get scared about what he can get away with.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pmI don't mean short-term image, but 20 - 50 years from now, no matter how much support lobbyists and donors give, history will not look kindly on Republicans who let a criminal President pardon himself and everyone involved in a conspiracy to rig the Presidential election. I don't see any way in which the future does not project Trump for what he is, and make us all look foolish for electing such a blatantly obvious conman and mentally ill wannabe tyrant with absolutely no understanding of the government he runs, diplomacy, or any of the issues other than how to abuse the system to line his pockets.
I am starting to feel the same way.Giff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:13 pmI'm legitimately starting to get scared about what he can get away with.The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pmI don't mean short-term image, but 20 - 50 years from now, no matter how much support lobbyists and donors give, history will not look kindly on Republicans who let a criminal President pardon himself and everyone involved in a conspiracy to rig the Presidential election. I don't see any way in which the future does not project Trump for what he is, and make us all look foolish for electing such a blatantly obvious conman and mentally ill wannabe tyrant with absolutely no understanding of the government he runs, diplomacy, or any of the issues other than how to abuse the system to line his pockets.
This. Unless shame and guilt exists within the culture that propped up this scumbag, people's future feelings about the past is pointless. (And tangentially speaking, using the phrase "wrong side of history" is a bit too tsk tsk and uppity for the person saying it.)