The Swamp

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:44 pm**

howard wrote:No excuse for trying to fuck a 14yo child, much less actually fuck a child. Homo or hetero. I'm pretty firm on this point, and I'm not even a parent.

I've been really drunk plenty of times, but never drunk enough to lie on top of a 14yo child. This is a serious crime, and I cannot imagine an explanation that would convince me otherwise.

ETA: almost forgot. The kid who leveled the accusation is named Anthony Rapp. One commentator, apparently in defense of Spacey, said simply, "bum rap."

Hey, I'm harsh, but I still have my sense of humor.

top shelf. ive been drunk high stoned and my mind shredded by xanax abd ive never been lay on a minor fucked up so im not buying it either really. i guess id feel differemtly or stronger if he actually gave the kid the prize behind door number 2

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:36 pm**

Sure, I can give him a little credit for not actually forcing himself onto the kid all the way. He could've committed a worse crime. Reminds me of a joke a friend of mine liked.

He said, "you know, I prevented a rape last night."

"Wow, that's amazing, what happened?"

"I changed my mind."

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:37 pm**

im definitely stealing that

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 am**

Not victim blaming AT ALL. Wondering why a 14 year old was alone at a party where alcohol was being served. Wondering why he was alone in a bedroom with a 26 year old man. Where were his parents? As a parent, I’d be chaperoning my son if he were invited to a party like that, for sure. Fuck Spacey, creepy asshole.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:58 am**

Shirley wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:What's not being discussed is the long held belief that gay male = sexual deviant. In many cases, gay men are portrayed as being sexual predators and in a lot of depictions is is an older gay male praying on a young guy. When you hear about violence against gays, a lot of what fuels these acts is this belief that all gay men are predatory deviants, cruising for young boys to molest.

Yeah, I agree that this is probably the key reason so many in the gay community are outraged about this. But I'm not sure if it makes a difference that he came out in his apology. Either way, he was an older man coming on to a 14-year-old boy. Expressly coming out is almost redundant in that case.

I've reread this post several times, and I'm either reading it wrong, or you are contradicting Nonlinear's point you start off agreeing with. A lot of the prejudice and discrimination against gay men comes from a perpetuation that gay men are sexually deviant, and homosexuality is conflated with pedophilia. Are you saying an adult man coming on to a 14 year old boy means the man is gay? This is exactly what the LGBT community is fighting. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, even a man who targets boys.

-I'm going on the assumption here that the victim in this instance, as I've read, looked like a child a the time. If he looked like an adult, that's a different story.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:01 am**

bfj wrote:Not victim blaming AT ALL. Wondering why a 14 year old was alone at a party where alcohol was being served. Wondering why he was alone in a bedroom with a 26 year old man. Where were his parents? As a parent, I’d be chaperoning my son if he were invited to a party like that, for sure. Fuck Spacey, creepy asshole.

It was 1986. Nobody was chaperoned anywhere.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:09 am**

The Sybian wrote:Are you saying an adult man coming on to a 14 year old boy means the man is gay? This is exactly what the LGBT community is fighting. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, even a man who targets boys.

I understand how this applies to little kids, but does that apply when we're talking about teenagers? I guess I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old boy is gay. And I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old girl is straight.

This does not imply that gays are more likely to hit on teenagers than other guys, or that gays are more likely to hit on little kids than other guys.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:14 am**

degenerasian wrote:
bfj wrote:Not victim blaming AT ALL. Wondering why a 14 year old was alone at a party where alcohol was being served. Wondering why he was alone in a bedroom with a 26 year old man. Where were his parents? As a parent, I’d be chaperoning my son if he were invited to a party like that, for sure. Fuck Spacey, creepy asshole.

It was 1986.

You know, I feel like it's wrong to say this, but why is Spacey's career and legacy destroyed over one allegation from 30 years ago? Yes, it is horrible and inexcusable, but it was 30 years ago, and it wasn't a sexual assault as far as I've heard. OTOH, his comment that he doesn't remember it, but he doesn't deny it makes it seem like it was something he probably did frequently.

As others said, I have been extremely drunk in the past, even blackout drunk, but I am 100% confident I never sexually propositioned a boy. I'm 95% sure I never drunkenly sexually harassed a minor girl, because I was too much of a pussy in HS to make a move.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:20 am**

I think Steve is right here. The issue isn't a child molester vs gay gap, its the (I thought old) stereotype that gays are far more likely to target the underage. Spacey linking the two revived that bullshit.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:21 am**

The Sybian wrote:You know, I feel like it's wrong to say this, but why is Spacey's career and legacy destroyed over one allegation from 30 years ago?

https://twitter.com/billjamesonline/sta ... 2937275395

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:23 am**

Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Are you saying an adult man coming on to a 14 year old boy means the man is gay? This is exactly what the LGBT community is fighting. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, even a man who targets boys.

I understand how this applies to little kids, but does that apply when we're talking about teenagers? I guess I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old boy is gay. And I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old girl is straight.

This does not imply that gays are more likely to hit on teenagers than other guys, or that gays are more likely to hit on little kids than other guys.

I hear ya, that's why I prefaced my assumption based on an article that said the victim looked like a child. I'll concede the point with a teenager. That is a lot different than abusing a 5 year old.

My apologies, Shirley. I get set off by the anti-Gay Marriage arguments that homosexuality leads to pedophilia. I know you weren't making that point, and I know you don't hold that belief, but I felt the need to respond. It's funny, shit that affects me personally doesn't set me off as much people attacking gay rights.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:26 am**

The Sybian wrote:
Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Are you saying an adult man coming on to a 14 year old boy means the man is gay? This is exactly what the LGBT community is fighting. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, even a man who targets boys.

I understand how this applies to little kids, but does that apply when we're talking about teenagers? I guess I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old boy is gay. And I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old girl is straight.

This does not imply that gays are more likely to hit on teenagers than other guys, or that gays are more likely to hit on little kids than other guys.

I hear ya, that's why I prefaced my assumption based on an article that said the victim looked like a child. I'll concede the point with a teenager. That is a lot different than abusing a 5 year old.

My apologies, Shirley. I get set off by the anti-Gay Marriage arguments that homosexuality leads to pedophilia. I know you weren't making that point, and I know you don't hold that belief, but I felt the need to respond. It's funny, shit that affects me personally doesn't set me off as much people attacking gay rights.

Maybe you need to start being honest with yourself, Syb.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:44 am**

The Sybian wrote:
Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Are you saying an adult man coming on to a 14 year old boy means the man is gay? This is exactly what the LGBT community is fighting. There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, even a man who targets boys.

I understand how this applies to little kids, but does that apply when we're talking about teenagers? I guess I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old boy is gay. And I'd assume that a man hitting on a 14-year-old girl is straight.

This does not imply that gays are more likely to hit on teenagers than other guys, or that gays are more likely to hit on little kids than other guys.

I hear ya, that's why I prefaced my assumption based on an article that said the victim looked like a child. I'll concede the point with a teenager. That is a lot different than abusing a 5 year old.

My apologies, Shirley. I get set off by the anti-Gay Marriage arguments that homosexuality leads to pedophilia. I know you weren't making that point, and I know you don't hold that belief, but I felt the need to respond. It's funny, shit that affects me personally doesn't set me off as much people attacking gay rights.

Just catching up here. Yeah, I don't really think of going after a 14-year-old boy as pedophilia. Or at least, not at all the same thing as folks who like 6-year-olds. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just assume that a man that hits on a post-pubescent boy is gay or bisexual (and a creep), but not necessarily a pedophile.

BTW, did anyone read the original Buzzfeed article about Rapp's accusation? It mentioned that in the play Rapp was acting in at the time (which is why he was in NYC and going to parties with adult actors), there's a scene where his father - played by Ed Harris - drunkenly scoops him up and then lies down on him, mistakenly trying to have sex with him. That's a hell of a coincidence if Spacey wasn't reenacting that scene. Not sure what to think about that either.

Oh, one more BTW - I realized yesterday that Rapp was actually the blond nerd kid with glasses and long hair in Dazed and Confused.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:24 pm**

Related, are we approaching a point where some dudes is going to proactively resign from a prominent position?

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:29 pm**

mister d wrote:
The Sybian wrote:You know, I feel like it's wrong to say this, but why is Spacey's career and legacy destroyed over one allegation from 30 years ago?

https://twitter.com/billjamesonline/sta ... 2937275395

What qualifies as "evidence"? A supporting statement from a third party? A videotape? The claim itself?

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:36 pm**

It appears that Bill James may have finally decided that wasn't a great poll.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:39 pm**

Back to the old pork and beans factory, I guess.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:52 pm**

Shirley wrote:Just catching up here. Yeah, I don't really think of going after a 14-year-old boy as pedophilia. Or at least, not at all the same thing as folks who like 6-year-olds. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just assume that a man that hits on a post-pubescent boy is gay or bisexual (and a creep), but not necessarily a pedophile.

BTW, did anyone read the original Buzzfeed article about Rapp's accusation? It mentioned that in the play Rapp was acting in at the time (which is why he was in NYC and going to parties with adult actors), there's a scene where his father - played by Ed Harris - drunkenly scoops him up and then lies down on him, mistakenly trying to have sex with him. That's a hell of a coincidence if Spacey wasn't reenacting that scene. Not sure what to think about that either.

Oh, one more BTW - I realized yesterday that Rapp was actually the blond nerd kid with glasses and long hair in Dazed and Confused.

Yeah, he’s a creepy, bisexual, pedophile for hitting on a 14 year old. A 14 year old shouldn’t be alone at a party with drunk adults. Bad parenting. I think a good clue for Spacey would be that if there was no audience watching, that scene doesn’t need to be re-enacted.

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:13 pm**

sancarlos wrote:https://twitter.com/jonnytudor1/status/925326133939359745

just snarfed my coffee

Posted: **Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:14 pm**

mister d wrote:Related, are we approaching a point where some dudes is going to proactively resign from a prominent position?

Not hugely prominent for us, but...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:17 am**

Nonlinear FC wrote:
mister d wrote:Related, are we approaching a point where some dudes is going to proactively resign from a prominent position?

Not hugely prominent for us, but...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Its about to lay waste to the UK parliament, a list of 40 Tory MP's is circulating the UK press, Labour will be getting theirs just as clearly in a few days or weeks

Politics is another well well kept secret. Women get abused psychologically for sure and maybe even sexually. People wonder why women make up 50% of the population but only 20% of the seats in politics.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 pm**

degenerasian wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
mister d wrote:Related, are we approaching a point where some dudes is going to proactively resign from a prominent position?

Not hugely prominent for us, but...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Its about to lay waste to the UK parliament, a list of 40 Tory MP's is circulating the UK press, Labour will be getting theirs just as clearly in a few days or weeks

Politics is another well well kept secret. Women get abused psychologically for sure and maybe even sexually. People wonder why women make up 50% of the population but only 20% of the seats in politics.

A secret to who?

Just like with the Hollywood stuff, everyone knows this stuff is going on. I can tell you specific senators and congressmen that are notorious for this stuff. It's just that up until recently, the risk/reward for calling them on it just wasn't worth it. The stigma surrounding the accuser made it a no-win situation, even for those out of the "business."

I suspect a bunch of old farts in Washington are freaking out these days. Only a matter of time before we have our own list circulating.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:31 pm**

And when those names come out, you can be sure atleast some of them are held accountable right along party lines.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:41 pm**

Just to keep the original post alive in the conversation... CNN had a reporter do some digging with folks on the House of Cards set... Shit is not good. Opposite of good.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/02/media/h ... 704PMStory

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:53 pm**

The Sybian wrote:You know, I feel like it's wrong to say this, but why is Spacey's career and legacy destroyed over one allegation from 30 years ago?

I guess it wasn't so much the single allegation from 30 years ago, but the knowledge of all his other bad conduct that was about to become public on the heels of that allegation.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:19 pm**

OK, well that definitely changes the tone of the whole thing, from what's going to happen to his career (likely done) to how I view that original story. As a one-off from 30 years ago when he was drunk, I was willing to give Spacey the benefit of the doubt. Now, not so much.

At this point, the best anyone can hope for is that he never actually raped or seriously assaulted anyone (beyond the groping mentioned in that CNN article).

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:31 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:You know, I feel like it's wrong to say this, but why is Spacey's career and legacy destroyed over one allegation from 30 years ago?

I guess it wasn't so much the single allegation from 30 years ago, but the knowledge of all his other bad conduct that was about to become public on the heels of that allegation.

Yeah, that CNN report changed everything. Like the reporter said, it seemed odd that Netflix was so quick to drop a flagship show over this allegation, but they must have been aware of his behavior on set. I thought he was an amazing actor, but he was just being himself when he used his power to seduce and sexual assault people on the show.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:49 pm**

So we now all agree that laying on top of a 14 year old boy was real bad, right?

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:31 pm**

mister d wrote:So we now all agree that laying on top of a 14 year old boy was real bad, right?

Clearly he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:18 pm**

mister d wrote:So we now all agree that laying on top of a 14 year old boy was real bad, right?

Maybe he just respected he way he handled his rig.

#bobandtom #truckerclock #whowantsit

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:39 pm**

mister d wrote:So we now all agree that laying on top of a 14 year old boy was real bad, right?

Hey everyone, Mr D is better than me!!

(lying)

Posted: **Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:07 pm**

C’mon, man. That was leeway granted because you really liked the actor. You can admit that.

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:48 am**

mister d wrote:C’mon, man. That was leeway granted because you really liked the actor. You can admit that.

It was leeway granted to a single-person's accusation based on memory of a drunken encounter from over 30 years ago. I like Spacey as an actor, but I'm not a particular fan (never seen an episode of House of Cards). As I said multiple times in my first post, I didn't know what to think about the accusation. Since then, more evidence has come out that Spacey is a creep towards young men, so now I DO know what to think.

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:35 pm**

Shirley wrote:
mister d wrote:C’mon, man. That was leeway granted because you really liked the actor. You can admit that.

It was leeway granted to a single-person's accusation based on memory of a drunken encounter from over 30 years ago. I like Spacey as an actor, but I'm not a particular fan (never seen an episode of House of Cards). As I said multiple times in my first post, I didn't know what to think about the accusation. Since then, more evidence has come out that Spacey is a creep towards young men, so now I DO know what to think.

The 14 year old wasn’t drunk. The pedophile was.

Wait, you said hitting on 14 year olds doesn’t make you a pedophile, right?

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:33 pm**

My opinion of Spacey is harsh, but I think this is a bit excessive:

https://twitter.com/businessinsider/sta ... 0115518464

otoh, more evidence of past misconduct comes to light

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:24 pm**

I have this printed out at my desk because I wax poetic about retirement saying "I'm going to collect my retirement check, my VA check, go to school for free on the GI Bill, and have a part time job with the least possible amount of responsibility."

Now it takes on a different meaning.

Between this and Weinstein I'm glad people are being exposed. And I hope it continues.

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:05 pm**

bfj wrote:
The 14 year old wasn’t drunk. The pedophile was.

Wait, you said hitting on 14 year olds doesn’t make you a pedophile, right?

Jesus, now Shirley is getting attacked from the other side on this comment. He said a man hitting on a 14 year old boy has a stringer correlation to the man being gay than a man attempting to sexually assault a 5 year old boy. He never said it was acceptable behavior. And a upon a quick search, the definition of pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, 13 or younger, so this doesn't make him a pedophile, just an attempted statutory rapist.

Posted: **Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:06 pm**

The Sybian wrote:
bfj wrote:
The 14 year old wasn’t drunk. The pedophile was.

Wait, you said hitting on 14 year olds doesn’t make you a pedophile, right?

Jesus, now Shirley is getting attacked from the other side on this comment. He said a man hitting on a 14 year old boy has a stringer correlation to the man being gay than a man attempting to sexually assault a 5 year old boy. He never said it was acceptable behavior. And a upon a quick search, the definition of pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, 13 or younger, so this doesn't make him a pedophile, just an attempted statutory rapist.

And I completely disagree with him (and you) on more than one point that he made in this thread. Thought I'd point it out. Ok,counselor?

Posted: **Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:25 pm**

bfj wrote:Wait, you said hitting on 14 year olds doesn’t make you a pedophile, right?

Yes, in the context of comparing people who are attracted to small children - e.g. 5-year-olds - with those who go after teens. I think there's a huge difference. And actually, so does the medical community who defines the term. Pedophilia, as described in the DSM, specifically means love of prepubescent kids, generally meaning 13 or younger. If you want your own definition, that's your call, but it makes debate about the topic difficult.

Nowhere did I say hitting on 14-year-olds was OK.

Posted: **Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:32 pm**

Shirley wrote:
bfj wrote:Wait, you said hitting on 14 year olds doesn’t make you a pedophile, right?

Yes, in the context of comparing people who are attracted to small children - e.g. 5-year-olds - with those who go after teens. I think there's a huge difference. And actually, so does the medical community who defines the term. Pedophilia, as described in the DSM, specifically means love of prepubescent kids, generally meaning 13 or younger. If you want your own definition, that's your call, but it makes debate about the topic difficult.

Nowhere did I say hitting on 14-year-olds was OK.

To me, a 14 year old is a child. Fuck the DSM. Spacey wasn’t hitting on a man, he was hitting on a boy.

I never said you said that it was ok. Your lawyer did.

The Swamp

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