The Swamp

Kind of snuck up on us, but Florida State is on the cusp of a perfect season. They are 0-9-1 against the spread this year. Only one team in the last 25 seasons has gone winless against the spread for an entire season.

who's this Florida State?

I care about Kennesaw State and Southern Utah and the teams in the Dakotas

running a pick'em game for the FCS playoff bracket (starts Saturday!) over here, for fans of the obscure

and I know you're a fan of the obscure, otherwise you wouldn't have stuck with a sports message board all these years

who y'all got in the games that matter?

chuck

I'm not sure I'm going to subject myself to watching "The Game" on Saturday. It's going to be a bloodbath. MI lost their "starter," who was trending OK, but was never going to survive the OSU defense. MI had gotten fat in the run game playing some of the worst teams in the B1G for 3 straight weeks. Then they ran into a decent WI defense (understatement) and got squashed like bugs.

They are now forced to go back to O'Korn, who had a unicorn rainbow game against Purdue and then proceeded to shit the bed for weeks, finally relinquishing the helm to Peters who was asked to do very little in the passing game up until he was forced to drop back last week. And the pass protection was predictably bad and he got concussed.

O'Korn will either wildly miss a bunch or if he tries to actually hit receivers, he'll get picked multiple times on Saturday.

Blowout loss. 42-10. And that 10 is very optimistic.

dude, I'm watching FCS playoff games on Saturday rather than Ohio State-Michigan. Might keep a little Ohio State radio in my ear but seriously I don't see O'Korn being able to do a dang thing and I see the Michigan defense doing a lot of things and I see the game becoming a dreary rockfight. 17-6 OSU.

Arizona-Arizona State will be more interesting than Ohio State-Michigan by FAR.

and maybe a couple of other games closer to me, including one in The Loveliest Village, might be of interest as well...

chuck

Cause it's the front page cfb thread... Ucf and s lorida r ballin.

Yeah it's a fun game.

What the fuk did bielma do to get chased in season

Guess it's end of season. 29-34 kind if ugly. I still like him.

Gone

His SEC r cord was pretty terrible too.

USF alum here:

dafuk was Charlie Strong thinking not squibbing that kickoff? Unless you have a kicker who can reach the upper deck of the opposite end zone, the play there is to make the midfielders sit on the ball as it bounces around.

Fucking stupid.

EnochRoot wrote:USF alum here:

dafuk was Charlie Strong thinking not squibbing that kickoff? Unless you have a kicker who can reach the upper deck of the opposite end zone, the play there is to make the midfielders sit on the ball as it bounces around.

Neutral here:

Thank you, Charlie. That took what was already an amazing game for the neutral and made it absolutely stratospheric.

Seriously, that game between unranked USF and ranked-behind-four-loss-Mississippi-State UCF was just a trash heap.

chuck [Kirby Hocutt, you dolt]

Hopefully Frost gets woo'd to UF.

Oh well.

EnochRoot wrote:Hopefully Frost gets woo'd to UF.

Oh well.

It's Lanesanity or nothing!

Always fun to see Bama lose.

rass wrote:Always fun to see Bama lose.

A two-loss Ohio State making the playoff over Alabama and then getting curbstomped by Clemson (which they would) would be utter hilarity.

Bama losing was really bad for Ohio state. Which is weirD to say.

brian wrote:A two-loss Ohio State making the playoff over Alabama and then getting curbstomped by Clemson (which they would) would be utter hilarity.

I want no part of this narrative, and I'm not alone

https://twitter.com/MattSBN/status/934554303997644801

chuck [look I want revenge over Clemson but I'm not getting that revenge this year no matter what happens and so I'm okay with random Fiesta bowl or some\such]

In real football news, UNH won a terrible first round game 14-0 over Central Connecticut, who decided to use their backup running back at QB while down one score in their first ever playoff game for much of the 4th quarter. Why?

Well, it's the timeworn tale of a starting QB that's suspended because he hosted a campus party, a backup QB that gets hurt while driving for the tying score, and a 3rd string QB that would have lost his redshirt status the second he Moonlight Grahamed his way onto the field. Oh and the starting RB was hurt too.

Ryan wrote:In real football news, UNH won a terrible first round game 14-0 over Central Connecticut, who decided to use their backup running back at QB while down one score in their first ever playoff game for much of the 4th quarter. Why?

Well, it's the timeworn tale of a starting QB that's suspended because he hosted a campus party, a backup QB that gets hurt while driving for the tying score, and a 3rd string QB that would have lost his redshirt status the second he Moonlight Grahamed his way onto the field. Oh and the starting RB was hurt too.

see, THOSE are real college football problems

I followed the Kennesaw State-Samford playoff game yesterday off and on and they are making ALL the hay out of Turnover Plank and it's glorious

chuck [when you don't have a jeweler at your program's beck and call, you make do with found wood]

The Greg Schiano hire at Tennessee is going to be a fantastic test of the tolerance of broad-brush internet outrage.

Tennessee fans are unhappy about the hire and citing Schiano's time at Penn State as a reason why. Schiano was an assistant there from 1990-1995. In July 2016, testimony was unsealed (in relation to an insurance filing) from Mike McQueary which mentioned Schiano as a possible witness to an incident of sexual abuse by Jerry Sandusky. This information regarding Schiano was second-hand and the testimony was from 2015 -- 20 years after Schiano was last at Penn State.

Yet that second-hand testimony (thanks to the prodding of those good at sparking internet outrage) is being cited as proof that Schiano was part of the Penn State coverup and therefore is not worthy of being the Tennessee head coach. Nevermind that he's been Ohio State's defensive coordinator for two seasons.

Brontoburglar wrote:The Greg Schiano hire at Tennessee is going to be a fantastic test of the tolerance of broad-brush internet outrage.

Tennessee fans are unhappy about the hire and citing Schiano's time at Penn State as a reason why. Schiano was an assistant there from 1990-1995. In July 2016, testimony was unsealed (in relation to an insurance filing) from Mike McQueary which mentioned Schiano as a possible witness to an incident of sexual abuse by Jerry Sandusky. This information regarding Schiano was second-hand and the testimony was from 2015 -- 20 years after Schiano was last at Penn State.

Yet that second-hand testimony (thanks to the prodding of those good at sparking internet outrage) is being cited as proof that Schiano was part of the Penn State coverup and therefore is not worthy of being the Tennessee head coach. Nevermind that he's been Ohio State's defensive coordinator for two seasons.

I think that by attributing the backlash to "internet outrage," you're being way too dismissive of the concerns. The Sandusky scandal and coverup is probably the most despicable thing to ever happen in college football, and I sure as hell don't blame UTenn fans or alums for being pissed about hiring a guy who has been linked to it -- even if the testimony in question involves hearsay. Just because hearsay evidence is generally inadmissible in a court of law, it doesn't mean that the administration and AD should just ignore it altogether.

I am going out on a limb to say the outrage isn't from Sandusky. They are using that as a cover because they wanted Gruden no matter what. The Sandusky scandal gives them an out to be angry with administration.

duff wrote:I am going out on a limb to say the outrage isn't from Sandusky. They are using that as a cover because they wanted Gruden no matter what. The Sandusky scandal gives them an out to be angry with administration.

I think it's both, and I love the hire, (as a Gator fan).

Joe K wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:The Greg Schiano hire at Tennessee is going to be a fantastic test of the tolerance of broad-brush internet outrage.

Tennessee fans are unhappy about the hire and citing Schiano's time at Penn State as a reason why. Schiano was an assistant there from 1990-1995. In July 2016, testimony was unsealed (in relation to an insurance filing) from Mike McQueary which mentioned Schiano as a possible witness to an incident of sexual abuse by Jerry Sandusky. This information regarding Schiano was second-hand and the testimony was from 2015 -- 20 years after Schiano was last at Penn State.

Yet that second-hand testimony (thanks to the prodding of those good at sparking internet outrage) is being cited as proof that Schiano was part of the Penn State coverup and therefore is not worthy of being the Tennessee head coach. Nevermind that he's been Ohio State's defensive coordinator for two seasons.

I think that by attributing the backlash to "internet outrage," you're being way too dismissive of the concerns. The Sandusky scandal and coverup is probably the most despicable thing to ever happen in college football, and I sure as hell don't blame UTenn fans or alums for being pissed about hiring a guy who has been linked to it -- even if the testimony in question involves hearsay. Just because hearsay evidence is generally inadmissible in a court of law, it doesn't mean that the administration and AD should just ignore it altogether.

I think that by writing your post, you're being way too obtuse when it comes to the situation -- both what's transpired today and the impetus for it along with the Sandusky scandal -- and my knowledge of it.

Brontoburglar wrote:

Joe K wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:The Greg Schiano hire at Tennessee is going to be a fantastic test of the tolerance of broad-brush internet outrage.

Tennessee fans are unhappy about the hire and citing Schiano's time at Penn State as a reason why. Schiano was an assistant there from 1990-1995. In July 2016, testimony was unsealed (in relation to an insurance filing) from Mike McQueary which mentioned Schiano as a possible witness to an incident of sexual abuse by Jerry Sandusky. This information regarding Schiano was second-hand and the testimony was from 2015 -- 20 years after Schiano was last at Penn State.

Yet that second-hand testimony (thanks to the prodding of those good at sparking internet outrage) is being cited as proof that Schiano was part of the Penn State coverup and therefore is not worthy of being the Tennessee head coach. Nevermind that he's been Ohio State's defensive coordinator for two seasons.

I think that by attributing the backlash to "internet outrage," you're being way too dismissive of the concerns. The Sandusky scandal and coverup is probably the most despicable thing to ever happen in college football, and I sure as hell don't blame UTenn fans or alums for being pissed about hiring a guy who has been linked to it -- even if the testimony in question involves hearsay. Just because hearsay evidence is generally inadmissible in a court of law, it doesn't mean that the administration and AD should just ignore it altogether.

I think that by writing your post, you're being way too obtuse when it comes to the situation -- both what's transpired today and the impetus for it along with the Sandusky scandal -- and my knowledge of it.

Care to explain, or are you just going to be snarky? Do you think the Sandusky stuff is all just pretext on the part of the fanbase? Or do you think that McQueary gave false testimony in the litigation in question?

Regardless of the Sandusky issue, perhaps there are other reasons to mock this hire.Deadspin certainly thinks so.

Deal is dead.

https://twitter.com/mark_schlabach/stat ... 7969128448

Joe K wrote:Care to explain, or are you just going to be snarky? Do you think the Sandusky stuff is all just pretext on the part of the fanbase? Or do you think that McQueary gave false testimony in the litigation in question?

yeah, I'm the snarky one here. come on man. what did you expect with a response like you initially had?

it's convenient outrage. Schiano was not a hire that was going to excite the fanbase so

1. Schiano worked at Penn State from 1990-1995. So, 22 years ago

2. McQueary is relying on second-hand information in his testimony. As in, he's saying he was told by Tom Bradley that Schiano told Bradley about an allegation. McQueary gave his testimony in 2015 -- as part of a civil case with Penn State's insurance company -- about second-hand information from at least a decade prior

3. Tom Bradley and Greg Schiano were both never charged with any crimes or sued in relation to the Sandusky scandal. They both deny they knew anything. Schiano's word is less reliable than secondhand testimony about an event that took place 20-25 years prior to the deposition?

4. Both Bradley and Schiano are currently employed by Power Five teams as defensive coordinators. clearly institutions like UCLA and Ohio State did their due diligence, right? Where's the outrage to their current employment, not just the possible promotion? If a guy is unfit to be a head coach at a power five school because of secondhand testimony, he's unfit to be a defensive coordinator.

5. Tennessee recently paid out $2.5 million in sexual assault settlement after allegations of a hostile environment towards accusers. Butch Jones was named in the suit. The settlement happened in 2016, as Tennessee was coming off a 9-4 season. Jones, as we all know, coached in 2016 and 2017 and there were no protests to remove him from Tennessee's coach until the team started losing.

The age and secondhand nature of the allegations, while providing some reason to question them, doesn't mean that they should be ignored altogether. Aren't the vast majority of the allegations against Roy Moore secondhand allegations from decades ago? I'm not saying this to compare Schiano to Moore, but only to point out that these types of allegations should be dismissed out of hand. And it's not like Schiano is otherwise a spotless guy. His Bucs players hated him, and he was involved in all kinds of troubling issues while there.

As for my initial post, I think the fact that UT backed out this quickly shows that the pushback was a lot more than just "broad brush internet outrage," which is how you characterized it. At a minimum, we know they were getting pressure from state legislators. Presumably a number of donors, trustees, etc. we're also making noise. So this wasn't just an example of the internet outrage machine.

Joe K wrote:The age and secondhand nature of the allegations, while providing some reason to question them, doesn't mean that they should be ignored altogether. Aren't the vast majority of the allegations against Roy Moore secondhand allegations from decades ago? I'm not saying this to compare Schiano to Moore, but only to point out that these types of allegations should be dismissed out of hand. And it's not like Schiano is otherwise a spotless guy. His Bucs players hated him, and he was involved in all kinds of troubling issues while there.

bold: no....

As for my initial post, I think the fact that UT backed out this quickly shows that the pushback was a lot more than just "broad brush internet outrage," which is how you characterized it. At a minimum, we know they were getting pressure from state legislators. Presumably a number of donors, trustees, etc. we're also making noise. So this wasn't just an example of the internet outrage machine.

yes, it was an internet outrage cycle spurred on by an influential personality who lives in Tennessee. I'm not going to dive into that more because of my dislike for the toxicity and the cult of personality, but just like you'd tell me to trust you on a legal issue, I'm going to tell you to trust me on this one

Brontoburglar wrote:yes, it was an internet outrage cycle spurred on by an influential personality who lives in Tennessee. I'm not going to dive into that more because of my dislike for the toxicity and the cult of personality, but just like you'd tell me to trust you on a legal issue, I'm going to tell you to trust me on this one

I abhor Travis, but I'm skeptical that he's influential enough to have caused this. On another note, this is embarrassing stuff from Peter King. In defense of Schiano, he posted this Tweet:
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status ... 0768807937
Here's another fine bit of research by John Ziegler, the guy who King promoted and credited for researching this story:
https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/ ... 0357915650

ETA: Looks like King deleted the Tweet I referred to, in which he promoted the Ziegler article, without acknowledgement of his mistake.

Never underestimate the power of a southern football fan base motivated by an underwhelming hire to bring about meaningful societal change

As a Kentucky fan I really wanted them to hire schiano because I think he's a bad coach.

A_B wrote:As a Kentucky fan I really wanted them to hire schiano because I think he's a bad coach.

He’s got enough of a checkered history (non-PSU) that I’m dubious he’ll be able to recruit at a high level.

Brontoburglar wrote:yes, it was an internet outrage cycle spurred on by an influential personality who lives in Tennessee. I'm not going to dive into that more because of my dislike for the toxicity and the cult of personality, but just like you'd tell me to trust you on a legal issue, I'm going to tell you to trust me on this one

I'm here in East Tennessee. Clay Travis got on board with this late, and I didn't even hear that Clay Travis was rabblerousing until the painting of the rock was WELL underway. This went WAY, WAY beyond Clay Travis.

And the almost immediate "um, no" from the pols in the state legislature and GOP candidates for governor gives me more than a small clue that away from Twitter, there were several moneymen who made immediate calls to the AD's office and said "um, what the hell do you think you're doing?"

There's a LOT about yesterday's chaos that doesn't pass the smell test, and yes, the appeal to the Penn State depositions was MORE than a bit convenient, and don't think for a second that I'm dismissing the angle that there are those who are politically motivated against the state university who drummed up all the noise in a toxic fashion. That's exactly WHY I'm dismissing the "internet outrage cycle" angle out of hand. Just because people got mad online doesn't mean there isn't a lot more going on.

And just because people got mad online doesn't mean that John Currie shouldn't be fired post-haste for the single most politically disastrous coaching hire leak I have EVER seen. Greg Schiano is quite possibly the worst proposal for the Tennessee job based on his NFL track record, BEFORE you bring Penn State into anything. Coming off of the disastrous final year of the Butch Jones era, in a climate fueled by stupid #Grumors, to go full retread is the least inspiring thing you could do with your first major hire - and to go with a retread with this background that WOULD be exploited by the university's political opponents is malpractice of the first order.

chuck [and this is BEFORE we even bring up the last quarterback to win a national title at Tennessee]

also: approximately with 20 minutes to go in this thing there is some SMART commentary on how stupid things got in Tennessee yesterday and how just about none of that is the fault of the Tennessee support and oh by the way Schiano's coziness with journalists got BAD in the way of intelligent reporting on anything

https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/935115438601719808

drchuck wrote:also: approximately with 20 minutes to go in this thing there is some SMART commentary on how stupid things got in Tennessee yesterday and how just about none of that is the fault of the Tennessee support and oh by the way Schiano's coziness with journalists got BAD in the way of intelligent reporting on anything

I was wondering why so many journalists were ready to take up arms for Schiano. Putting aside the McQueary testimony, Schiano's issues with the Bucs (MRSA, alleging leaking Josh Freeman's medical info, being despised by players) were enough to seriously question the hire.

And it was surreal to see Peter King and other prominent football writers promoting that Mediaite column, which was written by a guy who literally thinks Sandusky is innocent. In King's case, I thought it was just that he's never met a hardass coach he didn't love. But based on the Spencer Hall podcast you linked, it sounds like Schiano is well known as a good source for football writers.

drchuck wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:yes, it was an internet outrage cycle spurred on by an influential personality who lives in Tennessee. I'm not going to dive into that more because of my dislike for the toxicity and the cult of personality, but just like you'd tell me to trust you on a legal issue, I'm going to tell you to trust me on this one

I'm here in East Tennessee. Clay Travis got on board with this late, and I didn't even hear that Clay Travis was rabblerousing until the painting of the rock was WELL underway. This went WAY, WAY beyond Clay Travis.

the "movement" started early Sunday morning

And the almost immediate "um, no" from the pols in the state legislature and GOP candidates for governor gives me more than a small clue that away from Twitter, there were several moneymen who made immediate calls to the AD's office and said "um, what the hell do you think you're doing?"

There's a LOT about yesterday's chaos that doesn't pass the smell test, and yes, the appeal to the Penn State depositions was MORE than a bit convenient, and don't think for a second that I'm dismissing the angle that there are those who are politically motivated against the state university who drummed up all the noise in a toxic fashion. That's exactly WHY I'm dismissing the "internet outrage cycle" angle out of hand. Just because people got mad online doesn't mean there isn't a lot more going on.

so, again, it's convenient outrage. and the internet mob latched on to something as fact and ran with it. this was something that was in the works for a while, and many politicians only expressed their displeasure for the hire yesterday afternoon. after the outrage cycle was well underway

this could have been quelched -- if that was really the ultimate goal from the beginning and not simply a reaction to the reaction -- far earlier by influential people with connections to the Tennessee athletic department. it wasn't. that's important to note.

And just because people got mad online doesn't mean that John Currie shouldn't be fired post-haste for the single most politically disastrous coaching hire leak I have EVER seen. Greg Schiano is quite possibly the worst proposal for the Tennessee job based on his NFL track record, BEFORE you bring Penn State into anything. Coming off of the disastrous final year of the Butch Jones era, in a climate fueled by stupid #Grumors, to go full retread is the least inspiring thing you could do with your first major hire - and to go with a retread with this background that WOULD be exploited by the university's political opponents is malpractice of the first order.

chuck [and this is BEFORE we even bring up the last quarterback to win a national title at Tennessee]

don't think for a second I'm defending John Currie or even Greg Schiano. that's what's bizarre about this. you can think that hiring Schiano is ... interesting ... and still think what happened yesterday to him was an unmitigated disaster. and absolutely unfair.

and calling Schiano possibly the worst proposal for the UT job with those caveats is absolutely ridiculous. the dude won 11 games at Rutgers in 2006. Rutgers! and there are plenty of people who don't have NFL success but are very good college coaches.

does Schiano have baggage (and again, not Penn State related)? hell yes. focus on the stuff that happened outside of the win and loss column in Tampa Bay then. that's a fair way to go about protesting the hire. but again, outrage culture took over here. and that's terrifying.

in terms of winning and losing, however, Tennessee can do a whole hell of a lot worse. that's vastly important to note now too. by acting the way they did when Currie went after Schiano, Tennessee's fans have made this coaching search infinitely harder and more complicated. there are no winners here.

Frankly, I think less of Ohio State University for giving Greg Schiano work as a coach of young men.

The fact Tennessee would even think to bring him on as a head coach? That's a shit show, plain and simple. Yeah..it's hearsay based on McQueary's testimony. So what. Why on earth would your bring that debate to your campus? It's one thing to hire a guy without the stink of Sandusky and then it come out later...But this was intentional.

All Schiano can do now is deny deny deny. Again...Why would you want this on campus?

Full disclosure: Joe Paterno's casket belongs in prison.