The Swamp

I completely missed this Schiano thing yesterday. I don't think UT really cares about becoming a pillar of virtue. Isn't their teabagging ex-QB still revered in the program? The school had planned to hire Schiano even with the recent lawsuit settlement. I agree with Bronto. The UT fanbase just didn't like the pick and I completely agree with them. There would be similar outrage if PSU would have picked Schiano instead of Franklin a few years ago.

FYI McQueary is a prick. I knew him as a student(he used to date my wife's sorority sister) and from what I hear around town that hasn't changed. ex A: http://onwardstate.com/2016/11/17/mike-mcqueary-cited-for-illegal-deer-baiting/

So what you're saying is football is completely bereft of any common sense decency at all?

Got it.

Carry on.

McQueary may or may not be a prick, but that does not mean he would lie under oath in a deposition. In my experience, witnesses giving depositions are typically reluctant to give definitive testimony without a clear recollection. So for that reason, I think McQueary's testimony about Schiano and Bradley needs to be given some weight, even if it is not otherwise corroborated.

(And frankly, I fail to see how his deer baiting practices have any bearing on the likelihood that he would lie under oath about such a serious subject.)

College football does not have any decency. Win and try to get any transgressions swept under the rug. If you can do both then you will have a long career as a coach. Isn't that the way it works in nearly everything that makes a lot of money?

The article about deer baiting is just an example of how McQueary views rules and common practices. He is so low ethically that he will cheat to kill deer. I think he threw a lot of stuff out there once he was caught in order to get himself out of trouble. The guy is a dirtbag and should get lumped in with the rest of the Sandusky trash.

testuser2 wrote:College football does not have any decency. Win and try to get any transgressions swept under the rug. If you can do both then you will have a long career as a coach. Isn't that the way it works in nearly everything that makes a lot of money?

The article about deer baiting is just an example of how McQueary views rules and common practices. He is so low ethically that he will cheat to kill deer. I think he threw a lot of stuff out there once he was caught in order to get himself out of trouble. The guy is a dirtbag and should get lumped in with the rest of the Sandusky trash.

I wouldn't argue with that view at all. But then again, I'd include Schiano in that mess, too. Fact of the matter is, in order for what happened at Penn State to occur, you needed sycophants in place to be conditioned to look the other way.

Fuck them all..

You're probably right that there's no decency to be had in college football.

If that's the case, then maybe Greg Schiano can choke on this: he's just not good enough for Tennessee to wear the baggage.

Dr Chuck alluded to it much earlier upthread, but isn't Tee Martin a really good fit for this job?

ETA - and maybe the only person willing to take the job now?

govmentchedda wrote:Dr Chuck alluded to it much earlier upthread, but isn't Tee Martin a really good fit for this job?

ETA - and maybe the only person willing to take the job now?

*whispers* except he's black

Fact of the matter is, in order for what happened at Penn State to occur, you needed sycophants in place to be conditioned to look the other way.

I completely agree with that. Unfortunately, I think there are more programs(and fans) like that than there are those that are clean. It's not limited to athletics either. The admin has been enabling them. UT is one of them. I just don't believe that they rejected Schiano because of his history. They were the ones that wanted him in the first place. They didn't suddenly decide that he was too dirty for them. They just found that it was too hard to overlook his past when they had no support from the fans.

Not college, but wanted to share this insane pick 6 from my high school's playoff game this past weekend.

https://twitter.com/Texan_Live/status/9 ... 9589679104

testuser2 wrote:

Fact of the matter is, in order for what happened at Penn State to occur, you needed sycophants in place to be conditioned to look the other way.

I completely agree with that. Unfortunately, I think there are more programs(and fans) like that than there are those that are clean. It's not limited to athletics either. The admin has been enabling them. UT is one of them. I just don't believe that they rejected Schiano because of his history. They were the ones that wanted him in the first place. They didn't suddenly decide that he was too dirty for them. They just found that it was too hard to overlook his past when they had no support from the fans.

Which circles back nicely to how perhaps the pushback (outrage) was loud enough to make them realize they couldn't get away with that. In other words, a quasi checks and balances occurred, and thus prevented a massively tone-deaf overreach from having occurred.

I'm starting to worry that we're weaponizing the (alleged) choice of silently enabling a pedophile over risking a sports program's reputation.

testuser2 wrote:

Fact of the matter is, in order for what happened at Penn State to occur, you needed sycophants in place to be conditioned to look the other way.

I completely agree with that. Unfortunately, I think there are more programs(and fans) like that than there are those that are clean. It's not limited to athletics either. The admin has been enabling them. UT is one of them. I just don't believe that they rejected Schiano because of his history. They were the ones that wanted him in the first place. They didn't suddenly decide that he was too dirty for them. They just found that it was too hard to overlook his past when they had no support from the fans.

Not that I think anyone was arguing otherwise, it's obviously not just a Penn State thing.

Sadly, there's been almost no coverage of an organized coverup of a serial molester at Michigan State.

Tweet thread.

There's a host of agree-to-disagree and speculation above, on everybody's part (including mine), but this is what I want to focus on:

Brontoburglar wrote:don't think for a second I'm defending John Currie or even Greg Schiano. that's what's bizarre about this. you can think that hiring Schiano is ... interesting ... and still think what happened yesterday to him was an unmitigated disaster. and absolutely unfair.

and calling Schiano possibly the worst proposal for the UT job with those caveats is absolutely ridiculous. the dude won 11 games at Rutgers in 2006. Rutgers! and there are plenty of people who don't have NFL success but are very good college coaches.

does Schiano have baggage (and again, not Penn State related)? hell yes. focus on the stuff that happened outside of the win and loss column in Tampa Bay then. that's a fair way to go about protesting the hire. but again, outrage culture took over here. and that's terrifying.

The single thing that registered with me yesterday wasn't the generic fan outrage, and it wasn't the rabble-rousing from certain media members who I still think were far later to the party than advertised. It was the GOP legislators. And then the GOP governor's candidates.

There are PLENTY of people in this state with political axes to grind against the University of Tennessee. There is an overwhelming perception that the place is liberal nirvana and needs to be brought to heel. (The Google search for "Tennessee diversity funding" should give you some historical context.) The voices that want to see the University kept from fulfilling a university's role were the voices that were enabled with yesterday's shitstorm.

THAT'S why I'm terrified, from these quarters. The baggage with Schiano and others' hesitance to hire him at this level in the past should have been the reddest of flags. Was the circus fair to Schiano, who was once a competent head man and might be again? Of course not. But it was predictable, far more so than anyone is giving credit for. And in THIS state at THIS moment, when cynical men seek out any excuse to cause trouble, John Currie didn't serve his university well. In fact, he carelessly served to undermine it. And that's why his future employment is in question at this hour.

I'm not going to pretend to be aware enough of what goes into Tennessee politics to be confident in what comes next. I know I live in a time when there are a host of people who are interested in tearing down institutions. They don't need to be enabled. They got enabled yesterday. And as long as there are people in charge who like to play power-broker for fun, they'll get enabled again.

chuck [and no, I don't see any way Tee Martin gets offered the job except out of sheer desperation]

Interesting.

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/stat ... 5267338240

Still don't foresee a scenario where he's at Iowa State for the rest of the decade, but good on them for ponying up to keep him.

Well hoodie seemed to think his recruiting and development were plenty good enough so good enough for me. I'd not heard a whole lot of negativity surrounding the guy but then I don't follow college football a ton. I do think he would have won at Tennessee and I'm a little dumbfounded as to how that wasn't good enough for a school and fanbase that wants to win. Can't have it both ways.

HaulCitgo wrote:Well hoodie seemed to think his recruiting and development were plenty good enough so good enough for me. I'd not heard a whole lot of negativity surrounding the guy but then I don't follow college football a ton. I do think he would have won at Tennessee and I'm a little dumbfounded as to how that wasn't good enough for a school and fanbase that wants to win. Can't have it both ways.

[+] spoiler

John Currie's first mistake is assuming that everybody involved has Tennessee's best interests at heart

chuck [oh my God, it's a mirage, I'm telling y'all...]

drchuck wrote:There's a host of agree-to-disagree and speculation above, on everybody's part (including mine), but this is what I want to focus on:

Brontoburglar wrote:don't think for a second I'm defending John Currie or even Greg Schiano. that's what's bizarre about this. you can think that hiring Schiano is ... interesting ... and still think what happened yesterday to him was an unmitigated disaster. and absolutely unfair.

and calling Schiano possibly the worst proposal for the UT job with those caveats is absolutely ridiculous. the dude won 11 games at Rutgers in 2006. Rutgers! and there are plenty of people who don't have NFL success but are very good college coaches.

does Schiano have baggage (and again, not Penn State related)? hell yes. focus on the stuff that happened outside of the win and loss column in Tampa Bay then. that's a fair way to go about protesting the hire. but again, outrage culture took over here. and that's terrifying.

The single thing that registered with me yesterday wasn't the generic fan outrage, and it wasn't the rabble-rousing from certain media members who I still think were far later to the party than advertised. It was the GOP legislators. And then the GOP governor's candidates.

There are PLENTY of people in this state with political axes to grind against the University of Tennessee. There is an overwhelming perception that the place is liberal nirvana and needs to be brought to heel. (The Google search for "Tennessee diversity funding" should give you some historical context.) The voices that want to see the University kept from fulfilling a university's role were the voices that were enabled with yesterday's shitstorm.

THAT'S why I'm terrified, from these quarters. The baggage with Schiano and others' hesitance to hire him at this level in the past should have been the reddest of flags. Was the circus fair to Schiano, who was once a competent head man and might be again? Of course not. But it was predictable, far more so than anyone is giving credit for. And in THIS state at THIS moment, when cynical men seek out any excuse to cause trouble, John Currie didn't serve his university well. In fact, he carelessly served to undermine it. And that's why his future employment is in question at this hour.

I'm not going to pretend to be aware enough of what goes into Tennessee politics to be confident in what comes next. I know I live in a time when there are a host of people who are interested in tearing down institutions. They don't need to be enabled. They got enabled yesterday. And as long as there are people in charge who like to play power-broker for fun, they'll get enabled again.

chuck [and no, I don't see any way Tee Martin gets offered the job except out of sheer desperation]

so you're saying this would have happened with anyone not named Jon Gruden

Brontoburglar wrote:so you're saying this would have happened with anyone not named Jon Gruden

I actually think that David Cutcliffe would be welcomed back with open arms, particularly if he was hired by Interim AD Philip Fulmer.

chuck [and at this point, that sounds like a hopelessly optimistic outcome]

Cutcliffe has passed - happy to finish his career at Duke.

tennbengal wrote:Cutcliffe has passed - happy to finish his career at Duke.

did I say "hopelessly optimistic"? I think I said "hopelessly optimistic"

https://twitter.com/ClowESPN/status/935339650134233089

chuck [somebody better shove their chips in on Tee Martin soonest]

The contract was never completely signed.

https://twitter.com/TimesFreePress/stat ... 4425714690

chuck [still think there's a lot more to be told about the conversations at UT surrounding this hire]

He isn't gonna get 20 mil, but he'll get a nice check I imagine.

Michael McCann at SI did an article about this yesterday, and used Barnes' MOU as a what if, because the Schiano MOU isn't public yet. I don't think he addresses the chancellor not signing issue, but I'd be shocked if Schiano doesn't get some $ in a settlement.

So if we're keeping a leaderboard of "money earned off Penn State child molestation", there's a good chance we have an ("allegedly") inactive witness not only in the #1 spot, but the #2 spot after this?

What's unfortunate about this whole Schiano thing, IMO, is that by many accounts the guy is a tremendous dick. He's not a good enough coach to be that much of a jerk. I think this part of the argument has gotten lost behind the PSU stuff.

They're trying to bring the mullet to Knoxville.

...and they failed. And they're scrambling. And apparently Tee Martin STILL isn't getting a phone call.

Meanwhile, Joe Moorhead got floated as the new head man at Mississippi State and not a soul is batting an eyelash.

Thought experiment: What if the one-and-only target at Tennessee had been Moorhead and not Schiano? Would the outcry - particularly from the political base - even have approached the hue and cry of what happened on Sunday?

We can't prove the hypothetical - my suspicion is that there would have been screaming, but it wouldn't have been near as unified.

chuck

Exhortation to the universe: when you want truth delivered simply and plainly about college football, with a shrug and a "this is fine", read Jason Kirk.

https://twitter.com/JasonKirkSBN/status ... 2008095744

chuck [faithful listener to the Fullcast but still miss the halcyon video days of the Shutdown Fullback]

The Fullcast has been amazing lately. It's damn good most of the time, but it's reached a new level right along with recent events.

drchuck wrote:...and they failed. And they're scrambling. And apparently Tee Martin STILL isn't getting a phone call.

Meanwhile, Joe Moorhead got floated as the new head man at Mississippi State and not a soul is batting an eyelash.

Thought experiment: What if the one-and-only target at Tennessee had been Moorhead and not Schiano? Would the outcry - particularly from the political base - even have approached the hue and cry of what happened on Sunday?

We can't prove the hypothetical - my suspicion is that there would have been screaming, but it wouldn't have been near as unified.

chuck

what

A quick google says he was also at Penn State but not during the Sandusky era and was never named under oath as a witness to child molestation. So (shrug)?

Brontoburglar wrote:

drchuck wrote:...and they failed. And they're scrambling. And apparently Tee Martin STILL isn't getting a phone call.

Meanwhile, Joe Moorhead got floated as the new head man at Mississippi State and not a soul is batting an eyelash.

Thought experiment: What if the one-and-only target at Tennessee had been Moorhead and not Schiano? Would the outcry - particularly from the political base - even have approached the hue and cry of what happened on Sunday?

We can't prove the hypothetical - my suspicion is that there would have been screaming, but it wouldn't have been near as unified.

chuck

what

I'm with Bronto on this...what does Moorhead bring that is politically/ethically divisive?

A_B wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:

drchuck wrote:...and they failed. And they're scrambling. And apparently Tee Martin STILL isn't getting a phone call.

Meanwhile, Joe Moorhead got floated as the new head man at Mississippi State and not a soul is batting an eyelash.

Thought experiment: What if the one-and-only target at Tennessee had been Moorhead and not Schiano? Would the outcry - particularly from the political base - even have approached the hue and cry of what happened on Sunday?

We can't prove the hypothetical - my suspicion is that there would have been screaming, but it wouldn't have been near as unified.

chuck

what

I'm with Bronto on this...what does Moorhead bring that is politically/ethically divisive?

It will be real funny if Mississippi State does beter over the next few years than Tennessee

Looking like Tennessee is going to hire Brohm (which would be an even better hire than Schiano IMO) so they're apparently going to get away pretty lucky all things considered.

Avram wrote:

A_B wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:

drchuck wrote:...and they failed. And they're scrambling. And apparently Tee Martin STILL isn't getting a phone call.

Meanwhile, Joe Moorhead got floated as the new head man at Mississippi State and not a soul is batting an eyelash.

Thought experiment: What if the one-and-only target at Tennessee had been Moorhead and not Schiano? Would the outcry - particularly from the political base - even have approached the hue and cry of what happened on Sunday?

We can't prove the hypothetical - my suspicion is that there would have been screaming, but it wouldn't have been near as unified.

chuck

what

I'm with Bronto on this...what does Moorhead bring that is politically/ethically divisive?

It will be real funny if Mississippi State does beter over the next few years than Tennessee

If they CONTINUE to do better. UT's been a shit show since Lane left.

A_B wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:what

I'm with Bronto on this...what does Moorhead bring that is politically/ethically divisive?

Absolutely nothing except he isn't perceived as a Tier-1 coach with championship experience.

Regardless, I got my answer today during the Brohm moment (because we're on about the ninth or tenth moment of this tire fire). There was nothing organized in protest, and there were the standard vague protests of Tennessee incompetence about the whole thing, but there was also a dull roar of screaming from a fraction of the fan base about how completely unacceptable Brohm was, what with his complete lack of experience.

Not organized screaming, certainly not the primal scream we heard on Sunday. But screaming nonetheless.

chuck [and especially for Brohm, Purdue is a far better job than Tennessee anyway]

drchuck wrote:

A_B wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:what

I'm with Bronto on this...what does Moorhead bring that is politically/ethically divisive?

Absolutely nothing except he isn't perceived as a Tier-1 coach with championship experience.

Well I don't think Mississippi State thinks they are a program that should only be looking at the Grudens and Gundys of the world. They probably were realistic and went and got a high-level coordinator they thought had some more to offer, like they did with Mullen (even if Mullen did have more experience).

A_B wrote:Well I don't think Mississippi State thinks they are a program that should only be looking at the Grudens and Gundys of the world. They probably were realistic and went and got a high-level coordinator they thought had some more to offer, like they did with Mullen (even if Mullen did have more experience).

...which freakin' WORKS. For crying out loud, I still remember a few dumb oddballs in Columbus losing their minds when Ohio State went after the two-bit head coach at Youngstown State. As if no matter how many "national titles" he had at that level, Ohio State shouldn't stoop so low as to hire an FCS coach.

It worked pretty well for alma mater for a few years, that one.

chuck [and then he thought he could make Terrelle Pryor a boring Tresselball player and we all remember how THAT turned out]

Rumors that Currie has been fired as AD, but nothing from an ironclad source as of yet so don't talk about this at all until we know thanks.

ETA: ESPN confirms. And apparently Phil Fulmer has been sabotaging to finagle the AD job for himself.