The Swamp

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 pm**

Because, damn - wherever he pops up with a column right now, it's pure on-point fury. I think he's the best going right now.

In any event, he popped up today on si.com with the Nassar sentencing day here:

https://www.si.com/olympics/2018/01/24/ ... igan-state

Burn it all down. That is the calm and reasoned conclusion to which I have come as one horror story after another unspooled in the courtroom. Nobody employed in the upper echelons at USA Gymnastics, or at the United States Olympic Committee, or at Michigan State University should still have a job. If accessorial or conspiracy charges plausibly can be lodged against those people, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Those people should come out of civil courts wearing barrels. Their descendants should be answering motions in the 22nd Century. In fact, I can argue convincingly that none of those three institutions should continue to exist in its current form. USA Gymnastics and the USOC should lose their non-profit status forthwith. Michigan State should lose its status within the NCAA for at least five years. American gymnastics is no longer a sport. It’s a conspiracy of pedophiles and their enablers.

Where are the other coaches in East Lansing? Where is Tom Izzo, who makes four million bucks a year to coach basketball? Where is Mark Dantonio, who makes just about as much to coach football? Larry Nassar worked for the same athletic department as they do. In a recent press conference, Izzo fumbled all over himself to the point where Aly Raisman’s mother cranked up a flamethrower on Twitter.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:24 pm**

Michigan State has done nothing but shoot itself in the foot constantly for the last few weeks. If I were the NCAA, I'd consider shutting the entire athletic department down or at a minimum banning every sport MSU fields from postseason play for five years.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:52 pm**

A whole lot of heads in sand, in this situation, when firings and resignations across a number of organizations should be the news of the day after the sentence was announced.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:14 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:24 pm Michigan State has done nothing but shoot itself in the foot constantly for the last few weeks. If I were the NCAA, I'd consider shutting the entire athletic department down or at a minimum banning every sport MSU fields from postseason play for five years.

I hope to God that these brave well-spoken women keep the pressure on and don't relent until heads have rolled all over East lansing and wherever the USOC is headquartered. Maybe by keeping the pressure on and embarrassing these complicit bureaucrats they can ensure that the next time a 12 year old tells someone in authority that he or she is being abused, that person will do something to protect the child instead of their own fucking career.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:22 pm**

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:14 pm
brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:24 pm Michigan State has done nothing but shoot itself in the foot constantly for the last few weeks. If I were the NCAA, I'd consider shutting the entire athletic department down or at a minimum banning every sport MSU fields from postseason play for five years.
I hope to God that these brave well-spoken women keep the pressure on and don't relent until heads have rolled all over East lansing and wherever the USOC is headquartered. Maybe by keeping the pressure on and embarrassing these complicit bureaucrats they can ensure that the next time a 12 year old tells someone in authority that he or she is being abused, that person will do something to protect the child instead of their own fucking career.

Everyone said Penn State's punishment was too severe, but apparently it wasn't severe enough since zero lessons were learned at MSU. I want the NCAA to throw the book so hard at Michigan State that no athletic department in this country ever again considers covering up or enabling a sex offender.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:31 pm**

This makes me so fucking sick, and part of it is that nothing is going to happen unless sponsors pull their support.

i read that A T & T has pulled its support of US Gymnastics. But there has to be more, because Bobby Booster isn't giving up his tickets on the 50 yard line.We saw how the typical response out of College Park was to whine and play the victim card.

Honest to God, I don't know how even a proud alumnus could walk around in a Spartan shirt until that school's leadership has been fired and charged with crimes.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm**

Ahem...

State College.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:51 pm**

Right now Penn State and Michigan State alums are carrying on concurrent arguments that their scandal is totally different than those other assholes.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:55 pm**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm Ahem...

State College.

Mea culpa!

I was actually trying to shift blame to Texas A & M.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:31 pm**

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:55 pm
tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm Ahem...

State College.
Mea culpa!

I was actually trying to shift blame to Texas A & M.

Still wrong, Canadian. College Park is Maryland. College Station is Texas A&M.

Posted: **Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:54 pm**

I may not have my college towns straight, but I know sleaze when I see it.

Paul Ryan Sucks Up To Kochs

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:29 am**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:31 pm Still wrong, Canadian. College Park is Maryland. College Station is Texas A&M.

And Terrapin Station is an album by Phish.

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:06 am**

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:29 am
brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:31 pm Still wrong, Canadian. College Park is Maryland. College Station is Texas A&M.
And Terrapin Station is an album by Phish.

Grateful Dead.

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:30 am**

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:29 am
brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:31 pm Still wrong, Canadian. College Park is Maryland. College Station is Texas A&M.
And Terrapin Station is an album by Phish.

Heh.

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:53 am**

Just can't put my finger on why MSU's president would try to protect the athletic department.

The contract also spells out a number of lifetime perks Simon and her husband will receive.

Parking passes for on-campus parking
Two free tickets to home football games for the Spartan Club suites
Two free tickets to women's basketball games
The option to buy up to four men's basketball tickets in the same location she currently has seats
Reduced-price tickets for bowl games and post-season play for football, men's and women's basketball and ice hockey
Parking pass for all home sporting and cultural events

"Other than the granting of emeritus status, we rarely see such benefits in any contracts," Finkelstein said. "What is extremely unusual about these benefits is that so many of these are related to sporting events. "In fact, this is the only contract that we’ve seen with these specific types of benefits.

Posted: **Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:55 am**

This place is like a comfy off-Broadway theater sometimes

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:06 am**

Belongs in the politics thread too..

Donald Trump Was the Inevitable Result of Republicanism

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:11 am**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:06 am Belongs in the politics thread too..

Donald Trump Was the Inevitable Result of Republicanism

Yes, but you putting it here is perfect, because it means I didn't miss it. Thanks for dropping it here.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:26 am**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:11 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:06 am Belongs in the politics thread too..

Donald Trump Was the Inevitable Result of Republicanism
Yes, but you putting it here is perfect, because it means I didn't miss it. Thanks for dropping it here.

That is a good piece and a nice rejoinder to the “whatever happened to the Republican Party of W., Reagan and William F. Buckley” line of thought. Trump takes things to a new level with his ignorance and crudeness, but most of the awful things about his presidency are continuations (if perhaps accelerations) of a phenomena that were already quite prevalent within the GOP.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:42 pm**

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:26 am
tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:11 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:06 am Belongs in the politics thread too..

Donald Trump Was the Inevitable Result of Republicanism
Yes, but you putting it here is perfect, because it means I didn't miss it. Thanks for dropping it here.
That is a good piece and a nice rejoinder to the “whatever happened to the Republican Party of W., Reagan and William F. Buckley” line of thought. Trump takes things to a new level with his ignorance and crudeness, but most of the awful things about his presidency are continuations (if perhaps accelerations) of a phenomena that were already quite prevalent within the GOP.

I recently had a discussion with my brother-in-law...I said that, with perhaps the exception of raw-dogging porn starts months after his 3rd wife had given birth to his 5th child, any of the other Republican Candidates (for example, Jeb Bush), would have almost assuredly pursued the same policies that Trump has.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:52 pm**

I don't think that's wrong, but things like Charlottesville don't happen either. Its not what he does that's so different, its what he enables and tacitly approves of.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:53 pm**

Erm... I don't know guys.

Are folks really aware of what's going on at the Federal level? HHS is very quietly going about enacting policies that are going to make it much more difficult to have an abortion in this country. Pence has staffed the place with anti-choice zealots.

EPA is being gutted and their ability to actual do any regulatory work (like, testing the quality of source water when health issues pop up and the state involved isn't doing anything, you know, like that can ever happen, right?)

State Dept being DECIMATED.

Not every Republican would come in and try to basically fuck the entire federal government up, particularly what Trump is doing to our reputation and ability to lead on a global stage.

I TOTALLY agree with the general premise, that the GOP set the stage for this. But there's no fucking way they are all OK with everything he's doing. Some of this stuff is just madness and will be extremely difficult to correct in the long-term and could be disastrous for millions of people in the near.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:55 pm**

In addition, the other candidates at least had some grip of foreign policy, and wouldn't throw around the nuclear arsenal with NK or threaten to leave NATO. And FWIW, they would have been able to speak in complete sentences.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:56 pm**

The worst tangible acts so far are the tax plan and DACA and neither of those have anything to do with Trump. Appearances are worse and there could definitely be some long term ramifications of their ineptitude, but from a "what's actually happened" standpoint, its typical of these Rs.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:03 pm**

It's hard to judge because before Bush 43, the GOP hadn't held the House, Senate, and Presidency in like 50 years.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:04 pm**

I know it's not 'tangible', but completely tanking our relationships with our allies and general leadership in global affairs is kinda a big thing. I don't see that happening with any other R at the helm.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:09 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:04 pm I know it's not 'tangible', but completely tanking our relationships with our allies and general leadership in global affairs is kinda a big thing. I don't see that happening with any other R at the helm.

I'm curious about where this lands. I feel like America's equal or greater disdain has to register at some level where a Biden-esque D would be able to come right in and fix things.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:24 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:04 pm I know it's not 'tangible', but completely tanking our relationships with our allies and general leadership in global affairs is kinda a big thing. I don't see that happening with any other R at the helm.

George W. Bush shit all over our relationships with France and Germany to pursue the utterly disastrous Iraq invasion. His administration also wrecked our moral authority globally by implementing a worldwide torture regime. And I remember plenty of UN bashing by the GOP during those years.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:26 pm**

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:24 pm
P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:04 pm I know it's not 'tangible', but completely tanking our relationships with our allies and general leadership in global affairs is kinda a big thing. I don't see that happening with any other R at the helm.
George W. Bush shit all over our relationships with France and Germany to pursue the utterly disastrous Iraq invasion. His administration also wrecked our moral authority globally by implementing a worldwide torture regime. And I remember plenty of UN bashing by the GOP during those years.

All true, but still not apples to apples with what Trump has managed to do with literally almost every ally, including Mexico, Canada, the UK, Australia, South Korea, etc., etc., etc,

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:26 pm**

I'm in agreement with the last several posts. Other R's would likely have pursued some of Trump's economic plans, but the way Trump has appointed neophyte idiots and virtual arsonists to cabinet-level posts would not have occurred. The outrageous foreign policies, things like Charlottesville, the explicit coddling of Nazis and virulent racists, the narcissistic and juvenile tweets, childish attacks on the press... those wouldn't have occurred without Trump.

And, Joe it is bullshit to equate GWB's level of poor foreign policy/relationships with the tire fire now occurring.

(edited from "compare" to "equate" in the last sentence.)

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:32 pm**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:26 pmAnd, Joe it is bullshit to compare GWB's level of poor foreign policy/relationships with the tire fire now occurring.

Strongly disagree with you here. The Iraq War was far more disastrous than anything Trump has done thus far. Hundreds of thousands or innocent Iraqis died, millions more were displaced, and the War destabilized the entire region for decades. And if we want to talk about appointing neophytes and incompetents, Bush had a terrible track record there too. Many of the people he put in key transition roles in Iraq were young ideologues who were totally over their head. If we’re looking at domestic government appointees, people like Hans von Spakovsky, head of DOJ Civil Rights under Bush, were truly awful picks on par with any of Trump’s team of incompetents.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:38 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:53 pm Erm... I don't know guys.

Are folks really aware of what's going on at the Federal level? HHS is very quietly going about enacting policies that are going to make it much more difficult to have an abortion in this country. Pence has staffed the place with anti-choice zealots.

EPA is being gutted and their ability to actual do any regulatory work (like, testing the quality of source water when health issues pop up and the state involved isn't doing anything, you know, like that can ever happen, right?)

State Dept being DECIMATED.

Not every Republican would come in and try to basically fuck the entire federal government up, particularly what Trump is doing to our reputation and ability to lead on a global stage.

I TOTALLY agree with the general premise, that the GOP set the stage for this. But there's no fucking way they are all OK with everything he's doing. Some of this stuff is just madness and will be extremely difficult to correct in the long-term and could be disastrous for millions of people in the near.

The GOP has spent decades using every lever of government power on the federal and state levels to push anti-choice policies. Many states have passed abortion “regulations” that make it prohibitively difficult for women to obtain abortions. So I don’t see anything that HHS is doing now as an outlier. I think the same is largely true of environmental policies. On the national level, the GOP decided many years ago to be totally hostile to environment protections of any sort. The EPA didn’t have a good track record under Bush, and remember “drill, baby, drill”? I’ll grant you that the State Department issues are a new kind of awful, but I think the HHS and EPA issues are both continuations of longstanding policies.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:41 pm**

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:32 pm
sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:26 pmAnd, Joe it is bullshit to compare GWB's level of poor foreign policy/relationships with the tire fire now occurring.
Strongly disagree with you here. The Iraq War was far more disastrous than anything Trump has done thus far. Hundreds of thousands or innocent Iraqis died, millions more were displaced, and the War destabilized the entire region for decades. And if we want to talk about appointing neophytes and incompetents, Bush had a terrible track record there too. Many of the people he put in key transition roles in Iraq were young ideologues who were totally over their head. If we’re looking at domestic government appointees, people like Hans von Spakovsky, head of DOJ Civil Rights under Bush, were truly awful picks on par with any of Trump’s team of incompetents.

Nope. Sorry. Across the board, including the fucking people he's trying to put in judicial positions, what Trump is doing is off the charts. You had a guy in front of the Judicial Committee that couldn't answer basic (for a judge) questions about the law.

The 24 year old that just had to resign is just one example. Almost every cabinet level person had pretty much no business being put in charge.

Rick Perry thought the Energy Dept a) should've been abolished and b) thought it was primarily in charge of gas, oil and coal regulation.

Bush put people in charge that were in over their heads, but on a relative scale? C'mon man.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:44 pm**

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:38 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:53 pm Erm... I don't know guys.

Are folks really aware of what's going on at the Federal level? HHS is very quietly going about enacting policies that are going to make it much more difficult to have an abortion in this country. Pence has staffed the place with anti-choice zealots.

EPA is being gutted and their ability to actual do any regulatory work (like, testing the quality of source water when health issues pop up and the state involved isn't doing anything, you know, like that can ever happen, right?)

State Dept being DECIMATED.

Not every Republican would come in and try to basically fuck the entire federal government up, particularly what Trump is doing to our reputation and ability to lead on a global stage.

I TOTALLY agree with the general premise, that the GOP set the stage for this. But there's no fucking way they are all OK with everything he's doing. Some of this stuff is just madness and will be extremely difficult to correct in the long-term and could be disastrous for millions of people in the near.
The GOP has spent decades using every lever of government power on the federal and state levels to push anti-choice policies. Many states have passed abortion “regulations” that make it prohibitively difficult for women to obtain abortions. So I don’t see anything that HHS is doing now as an outlier. I think the same is largely true of environmental policies. On the national level, the GOP decided many years ago to be totally hostile to environment protections of any sort. The EPA didn’t have a good track record under Bush, and remember “drill, baby, drill”? I’ll grant you that the State Department issues are a new kind of awful, but I think the HHS and EPA issues are both continuations of longstanding policies.

I'm not really sure what argument you are trying to make here. We are all in agreement that the GOP is a fucking disaster when put in charge of everything. The point right now is that they are in charge of all three levels of government AND the Trump administration is making a bad situation MUCH WORSE because he's a complete moron and as we've talked about ad nauseum on here, most Republicans don't want to work for him so his policies and the people suggesting appointments are batshit crazy.

Are you really making an argument that this isn't being dramatically exacerbated by Trump?

ETA - I mean, this is one of those "debates" that is all kind of waste of energy, in the end. This is a dumpster fire parked right in the middle of a tire fire. The forensics don't REALLY matter as much as how we put this fucking thing 6 feet under.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:44 pm**

Bush tried to appoint Harriet Miers to the US Supreme Court!

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:50 pm**

Honestly, I'm not in the business of defending Bush. He put Rumsfeld and Chaney in charge of things. That's enough for me to label him one of the worst presidents in modern history.

But he'll take a very distant second to Trump when all is said and done. We agree the Iraq War might be what brings him back into the running.

Again, though, who gives a shit.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:56 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:50 pm Honestly, I'm not in the business of defending Bush. He put Rumsfeld and Chaney in charge of things. That's enough for me to label him one of the worst presidents in modern history.

But he'll take a very distant second to Trump when all is said and done. We agree the Iraq War might be what brings him back into the running.

Again, though, who gives a shit.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:57 pm**

Michigan State's athletic department is in some trouble.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:10 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:57 pm Michigan State's athletic department is in some trouble.

Wow. What a shit show.

I wonder if this why both Izzo and D'Antonio basically came out last week fully supporting Simon. They could've just left their comments at "this is a horrible situation, and right now we want the focus to be on the courage of these women." But they went WAY out of their way on their respective statements to go on the record supporting her.

Statements were VERY similar, which doesn't take a PR pro to recognize was part of a coordinated message (with talking points). Been there, done that.

ETA - Not sure why I insist on making Dantonio's name more stylish than it actually is...

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:18 pm**

The whole reason the athletic department covered up Nassar was (in part at least. In large part) to protect the athletic department as a whole. That means football and basketball.

They've been getting away with murder (almost literally!) at MSU for quite some time and it's overdue for someone to take a sledgehammer to that place. I hope the NCAA has the balls to do what's right and basically shut it all down.

The Swamp

A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions

Re: A thread for Charles Pierce columns and any related discussions