The Swamp

This whole thing has been discussed across multiple threads, so I thought I'd drop a thread on the board as thing continues to unfold. I know it's a little late, but as it starts to fade from national conscious I wanted a place to drop things as they develop.

Brian Cook at mgoblog doing some interesting introspection on how MI stacks up.

Yesterday - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... ermath-msu
Today - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... and-errata

Appointing Engler is a fucking joke, as is the person being asked to "independently" investigate this whole mess. They are just digging themselves in deeper, which while not surprising, is only a short-term solution. When the lawsuits start rolling in, and discovery starts to kick in, these people are fucked.

I think it's cute that Dantonio thinks he's going to keep his job.

If only the officers would have tripped or had slow reactions.

testuser2 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:51 am If only the officers would have tripped or had slow reactions.

Jesus. Those cops and guards must have felt terrible having to do their job.

Maybe they can get a bounty together and get word to the prisoners that this piece of shit is going to be living with for the rest of his life.

I turn into the grossest kind of MMA (or Eagles!!!) fan when it comes to stuff like this. There's nothing I want more than a video of a dad getting through and beating Nassar to the bloodiest, deadest pulp ever.

Burn it down.

https://deadspin.com/larry-nassars-form ... 1824107273

The affidavit also says that investigators found nude photos and pornographic videos on Strampel’s work computer, as well as a video of Nassar giving “treatment” to a young patient.

Holy shit to that last part (well, especially that last part). Nassar was recording his assaults and sharing them??

So I guess MSU didn't learn from the PSU scandal, or from the way it was addressed by PSU?

Avram wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:20 pm So I guess MSU didn't learn from the PSU scandal, or from the way it was addressed by PSU?

Sure they did. They learned that the worst thing that will happen is the NCAA will give you a slap on the wrist.

This is where I'd normally say something like I feel sorry for whomever is in charge of PR for Michigan State, except that it's a friend of mine from college so I've expressed that opinion in person (well, over the computer). She'll be ready for hellfire whatever her next job after this is though.

ETA: She only started a couple or three weeks ago, so she's just basically in full-on firefighting mode now. She's trusting that the people in charge are actually competent and repentant, but I'm not so sure about either of those at this point, but we'll see.

Long read, but worth a read from Deadspin.

And in case you think the author might have been sensationalizing a little bit, read the comments from her tweet promoting the piece.



(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)

brian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 pm
(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)

Yep.

I grew up in Nebraska, and I can guarantee you that if anything like the Larry Nassar scandal happened there, it would only result in the highest donation year ever for the football team. And ain’t that fucking depressing.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people?

brian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 pm Long read, but worth a read from Deadspin.

And in case you think the author might have been sensationalizing a little bit, read the comments from her tweet promoting the piece.



(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)

Dammit. Should have checked here first. Just bumped the Deadspin thread. It's a tremendous piece.

Burn it down

https://deadspin.com/msu-board-meeting- ... 1825245090

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:19 pm Burn it down

https://deadspin.com/msu-board-meeting- ... 1825245090

From the Lansing State Journal...

MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.

Guerrant told the Lansing State Journal that "an official settlement was not on the table."

Guerrant said Engler would not be available to media for comment immediately following the meeting but promised that MSU's communications office would respond to emailed questions later today.

Burn it down indeed.

https://deadspin.com/reports-michigan-s ... -182607474

I honestly don't know how someone could send their kid there at this point. I'm spending my money so you can pay off a pedophile rapist that you knew was being rapey and did nothing about?

This isn't a rivalry thing*, I just wouldn't be able to stomach that scenario, at all.

(My kids had three "I'm not paying your tuition if you go there" schools - MSU, PSU and OSU. I mean, I infected my kids early and they never even considered those schools, but still...)

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:35 pm https://deadspin.com/reports-michigan-s ... -182607474

I honestly don't know how someone could send their kid there at this point. I'm spending my money so you can pay off a pedophile rapist that you knew was being rapey and did nothing about?

This isn't a rivalry thing*, I just wouldn't be able to stomach that scenario, at all.

(My kids had three "I'm not paying your tuition if you go there" schools - MSU, PSU and OSU. I mean, I infected my kids early and they never even considered those schools, but still...)

And some of the money's coming out of "state aid." Am I correct in assuming that this is tax money?

Yeah, according to the aggregater (deadspin in this case), the money is coming from tuition and tax payer money.

I just can't believe people are going to be OK with this. I can't believe the board is going to survive.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm Yeah, according to the aggregater (deadspin in this case), the money is coming from tuition and tax payer money.

I just can't believe people are going to be OK with this. I can't believe the board is going to survive.

MSU fans are circling the wagons every bit as much as PSU fans did. The current students are the ones who should be shutting down the university protesting the money coming from tuition increases but they timed this carefully to happen right after commencement hoping that everyone will forget come September. Say what you will about Engler, but he's a sneaky, crafty motherfucker.

They also timed it to be too late for people accepting spots in the next freshman class to re-think their decision and go somewhere else.

Again, no fucking way am I sending my kid to a school where part of my tuition is going to this settlement.

Fuck that all the ways it can be fucked and then figure out some new ways to fuck it after we've all fucking thought about it for a fucking few minutes.

ETA - I texted my radio buddy and he says applications are drying up and there is a pretty big sense of outrage. Just not within the mouthbreathing MSU fan base.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm They also timed it to be too late for people accepting spots in the next freshman class to re-think their decision and go somewhere else.

Again, no fucking way am I sending my kid to a school where part of my tuition is going to this settlement.

Fuck that all the ways it can be fucked and then figure out some new ways to fuck it after we've all fucking thought about it for a fucking few minutes.

ETA - I texted my radio buddy and he says applications are drying up and there is a pretty big sense of outrage. Just not within the mouthbreathing MSU fan base.

Yeah, to be clear and fair the current MSU students have been pretty outspoken and angry about what a shitshow this has been, is currently and will apparently continue to be. They've been protesting and from all accounts seem to have the backs of the victims and not the university. The timing of this announcement was specifically intended to blunt their justified anger at having to foot the bill for the administration's fuckups.

But the trustees of MSU are voted on statewide* (I know you know that, but not sure too many other people do) and I'm more than a little dubious they'll end up having to pay a price for their role in this. I'll be happy to be wrong.

* - In a partisan election, no less. To add another level of asshattery to this whole thing you'll see this somehow twisted to serve partisan agendas instead of what is best for the university going forward.

Clarification: Engler wants to pay with tuition and state aid. Lawmakers saying fuck nah.

From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.

Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:36 pm From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.

Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights

First, please don't call that pile of shit in East Lansing "the big house." Fucking hell, man.

I understand your point about the endowment, most people do not get that taking 500M out of there MIGHT impact tuition. But with an endowment that large, and the typical 5 percent in allowed expenditures, you're talking about $150M... and a decent chunk of that isn't going to be tied up in profer chairs and other shit. You can't tell me they have 0 dollars in discretionary funding they can't use.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:36 pm From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.

Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights

First, please don't call that pile of shit in East Lansing "the big house." Fucking hell, man.

I understand your point about the endowment, most people do not get that taking 500M out of there MIGHT impact tuition. But with an endowment that large, and the typical 5 percent in allowed expenditures, you're talking about $150M... and a decent chunk of that isn't going to be tied up in profer chairs and other shit. You can't tell me they have 0 dollars in discretionary funding they can't use.

Oh no I meant the Big House as I figure MU sports will contribute because of their draw in the fall.

PSU paid their settlement out of athletics. A loan covered most of it initially and then it just became a line item in a budget. It was a much smaller amount and essentially ended all the lawsuits. MSU's is 5x what PSU ended up paying and may not have the same options.

Size does come into play. PSU's operating budget is over $5B a year while MSU is less than $1B. Athletics budgets are similar. around $150M for PSU and $120M for MSU.

On a more positive note, MSU's club lacrosse team won the MCLA division 1 championship this week (virtual varsity for schools that don't have NCAA/NAII programs), and have a pretty good uniform

Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 am Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.

MCLA is a no joke organization. They basically self organize under NCAA rules (eligibility too). These schools can't have an NCAA team. Throw a 32 team tournament (d1 and d2 16 teams each) each year that you have to qualify for, etc. Lots of big schools from the west have had success in this league (BYU, Arizona State,Va Tech, Cal, Colorado State). Several of these teams have migrated up to NCAA Varsity status (example: Utah next year)

The other college club league,NCLL, is more like you remember (but still more organized than when you were in school).

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 am Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.

MCLA is a no joke organization. They basically self organize under NCAA rules (eligibility too). These schools can't have an NCAA team. Throw a 32 team tournament (d1 and d2 16 teams each) each year that you have to qualify for, etc. Lots of big schools from the west have had success in this league (BYU, Arizona State,Va Tech, Cal, Colorado State). Several of these teams have migrated up to NCAA Varsity status (example: Utah next year)

The other college club league,NCLL, is more like you remember (but still more organized than when you were in school).

The next-door kid's father just posted on fb that he made the MCLA All-America team honorable mention (UC-Santa Barbara). So, apparently there is an all-american team for club lacrosse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/spor ... -time.html

Michigan came out of the MCLA... First in what is a growing trend of taking solid club teams that operate like varsity sports and turning them into D1 programs.

With that said, MI was a BEAST in the MCLA, ripping off 50 wins in a row at one point and winning 3 national titles before moving up. They are just now turning into a competitive D1 program. (they joined the D1 ranks in 2012)

Same thing happened with PSU and hockey. They got the shit kicked out of themselves for a bunch of years, now they are very nasty squad.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:59 pm https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/spor ... -time.html

Michigan came out of the MCLA... First in what is a growing trend of taking solid club teams that operate like varsity sports and turning them into D1 programs.

With that said, MI was a BEAST in the MCLA, ripping off 50 wins in a row at one point and winning 3 national titles before moving up. They are just now turning into a competitive D1 program. (they joined the D1 ranks in 2012)

Same thing happened with PSU and hockey. They got the shit kicked out of themselves for a bunch of years, now they are very nasty squad.

As long as we are bragging about alma maters in MCLA lacrosse - Colorado State has been national champions five times in the last 20 years, most recently in 2012 and 2013.

ADmins, can we get a thread split? I just don't want any of our hardcore lacrosse fans to miss out on this...

Ohio State debacle?

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:47 am Ohio State debacle?

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:47 am Ohio State debacle?

Seems That Way

MSU: still tripping on its own dick. (This is probably small potatoes to anyone other than Spartan alums and the like but it still shows the rampant insensitivity to Nassar's victims and the alumni who are still grappling with the university's role in abetting Nassar.)

Product of the Program is my new favorite call back.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 423174002/

MSU fires lawyer representing one of the employees (Dean) being sued by victims after he says his client was following orders from MSU lawyers at the time.

Just a reminder... Nassar is going to single-handedly ruin USA Gymnastics.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/how-did- ... -long.html

The fact that much less is going to befall MSU is pretty stunning. We're talking about decades of abuse, and here's what people (apparently) don't understand. Dozens of women reported this stuff to MSU officials and local law enforcement over the years. The first reported case to an MSU gymnastic coach was by 2 16 year olds.. in 1997.

Fuck all of them.

It's maybe just as well I'm not in charge of the NCAA because I would have shut down MSU's entire athletics department for at least two or three years. I can't believe they're completely skating on this and some football programs get probation because coaches give their poor as fuck athletes some money.