The Swamp

Honestly I think Cream's sound was so much different (and better) than Claptons later work. Enough so that they can be distinct entities. Cream influenced everything from garage and fuzz to desert rock and metal. Post-cream Clapton, while technically fantastic, didn't stray far from standard blues rock and associated yawnsville. (Stout #3)

I wish this had gone on for like 8 stouts to see some real divisive shit come up.

SUPREME COURT OF THE SPORTS FROG
IN THE NATION OF THE SWAMP
The Honorable Chief Justice Howard in New York


Rush2112 on behalf of himself and others members
Of the Sportsfrog Album Draft similarly situated
Class Plaintiffs


Vs


Mister d, administrator of the Sportsfrog Album Draft
Defendant

A CLASS ACTION

11 February 2018


ORDER OF PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION

In consideration of the facts, as one or more of the parties will suffer immediate or permanent damages, the court orders the Sportsfrog Album Draft suspended at the ninth choice of the second round. No further selections in this draft will be permitted, pending final determination of the issue by this court.

This injunction is effective immediately, to expire only upon subsequent order of this court, and to be enforced with the full force of law by mister d, administrator of the Sportsfrog Album Draft, whom is also the defendant in this matter, which is fucked up, but here we are.

We are so fucked

Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:24 pmWe are so fucked

1. Like that has ever changed

2. Like you would not expect that fact to become more evident and more obvious in association with my appearance

Can’t we just punt the decision until some dope wants the album with “Tears in Heaven” or something? Cream is the first Clapton off the board so it’s definitely ok.

I'd think that Cream and Clapton are separate entities.

PRESS LEAK!!!!!

A dastardly and evil member of the lame-stream media has (no doubt illegally and immorally) obtained a late draft of the decision from the Sportsfrog Supreme Court. Rumor has it that a young, naive law clerk of Chief Justice Howard of New York was manipulated, by a combination of alcohol, GHB and insincere romantic promises, into providing a copy of the ruling.

As Wikileaks has chosen to release the document only in 280 character dribs and drabs, in fairness to the public at large the document is presented here.

Independent sources confirm the authenticity of the document. (Putin said it's the real deal)

SUPREME COURT OF THE SPORTS FROG
IN THE NATION OF THE SWAMP
The Honorable Chief Justice Howard in New York


Rush2112 on behalf of himself and others members
Of the Sportsfrog Album Draft similarly situated
Class Plaintiffs


Vs


Mister d, administrator of the Sportsfrog Album Draft
Defendant

A CLASS ACTION

11 February 2018


ORDER OF PERMANENT INJUNCTION

The Supreme Court of The Sports Frog, after careful consideration of the facts, has decided in the matter named above the following injunctive relief for the plaintiffs in the class action.

This injunction is effective immediately, and to be enforced with the full force of law by mister d, administrator of the Sportsfrog Album Draft.


1.) Preliminary injunction of 11 February 2018 is lifted; the Sportsfrog Album Draft is to be resumed.

2.) Upon resumption of the draft, member and plaintiff Rush2112 has the option to revise his last selection, Round 2 pick 9 (27th overall) in light of today’s ruling. The time limit for his decision to let stand his pick or submit a different choice shall be the same time for regular picks in this draft, the clock beginning to run at the time of publication of this order.

3.) Some bands/groups will be considered to be synonymous with a single artist for purposes of this draft. Some other bands/groups will be defined as entities with bodies of work separate from that of the solo work of the members.

Addendum to 3.) The band The Cream is designated to be synonymous with the solo work of Eric Clapton, as laid forth below in section 8.)a.) of this order.

4.) An arbitrator will be assigned to make the distinction of which of these two classes a given band/group is assigned. The arbitrator shall have powers and duties defined below, in addition to making this distinction.

5.) Solo work of the members of the bands/groups assigned to the second classification above shall be considered separate from the work of the group, and subject to the draft separately. This order reverses the prior rule dictating selection of a group confers possession of all solo work of the members of said group. This order is necessary because of the varied work of many individuals both prior to and subsequent to their primary or most famous group work.

6.) Supergroups shall be defined by the arbitrator, and shall be either deemed ineligible for this draft or to be considered as entities with bodies of work separate from the other work of its members, and eligible for selection w/o attachment of that other work. The draft administrator and defendant, mister d, shall decide the question of eligibility of supergroups.

7.) The draft administrator and defendant, mister d, shall designate an arbitrator for this draft. The arbitrator will

a.) assign bands/groups into one of two classes, defined in item #5 above;
b.) designate certain bands/groups as supergroups;
c.) be available to any member of this draft for consultation and ruling on a prospective draft choice, via private message or email;
d.) provide the rationale for his/her decision publically, upon request from any member of this draft;
e.) not be subject to appeal of any of his/her rulings;
f.) chosen purely at the discretion of draft administrator mister d, and can be himself, Chief Justice Howard, or any other person of his choice;
g.) serve the duration of this draft, although the draft administrator shall have the authority to dismiss the arbitrator at any time, for any reason;

8.) This order sets forth six specific designations relating to draft choices already made, including the draft choice of Round 2 pick 9 subject to revision by Rush 2112. Those designations are as follow:

a.) The Cream is considered synonymous with the solo work of Eric Clapton
b.) The selection of The Beatles does not include the subsequent solo work of John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison or Ringo Starr; those four individuals are subject to selection in this draft
c.) Led Zeppelin is not considered a supergroup and is eligible for this draft. The choice does not include the prior or subsequent work of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones or John Bonham
d.) The Traveling Wilburys and The Highwaymen are designated as supergroups; the selections of Johnny Cash and Tom Petty shall not include their work in these two supergroups.
e.) CSN/CSNY/Crosby and Nash are designated a group separate and distinct from the solo work of their members. The selection of Neil Young shall not include the work of CSNY, nor shall it preclude the eligibility of CSN/CSNY/Crosby and Nash for subsequent selection in this draft.
f.) The selection of Pearl Jam shall not impinge upon the eligibility of Neil Young’s subsequent selection. The Neil Young album entitled Mirror Ball, which featured the members of Pearl Jam, shall be considered in the solo work of Mr. Young. Sorry, Eddie.


This permanent injunction shall have the force of law, effective immediately upon publication, 11 February 2018. All hail the wise and powerful Chief Justice Howard!

Chief Justice Howard in New York is deeply distressed at this failure of security measures, and the disregard for the dignity of the court. The young woman at the center of this scandal has been, um, dealt with appropriately.

In light of the security breech, he has released the formal injunction, which is identical to the leaked version. He has also released the remainder of the ruling, which provides his full opinion, outlining the legal reasoning behind the injunction.

SUPREME COURT OF THE SPORTS FROG
IN THE NATION OF THE SWAMP
The Honorable Chief Justice Howard in New York

Opinion of the Court


The question at issue is whether the selection of an individual or of a band/musical group removes from the draft the other work of members of said band or associated band.

The objective of this court is to achieve fairness in this draft, considering the ambiguities and conflicts that have emerged. While perfect fairness is impossible, as any decision or ruling will impact some members negatively, the desired and intended effect of this injunction is the maximum fairness possible, in an imperfect situation with imperfect rules.

While nominally this is an ‘album draft’, in fact it is a draft of a body of work of artists, either individuals or bands/groups. A selection of a band or an artist entails all of their studio output, not just the stated album.

There is a simple and straightforward intent of this rule, such as ‘if you select The Beatles, the subsequent work of each member of the Fab Four is not available for the draft. After the selection by sancarlos of The Beatles (The White Album) at pick 7 of the first round, no one is able to choose Paul McCartney and Wings, or John Lennon/The Plastic Ono Band.

While this rule is easily applied to The Beatles and many other groups, application becomes ambiguous and complicated by the practical realities of 60s and 70s rock and roll group formation and disillusions. Lots of great musicians played in lots of bands, with other great musicians who played in other bands.

While some bands are unambiguously associated with a single musician (such as Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, or Elvis Costello and the Attractions), some other bands are clearly identified with multiple great musicians who would be possible or likely draftees here in their own right (such as Genesis or Crosby Stills Nash and sometimes Young), and some bands are in a grey area, as the discussion of The Cream on this thread illustrates.

A cursory review of the career of Eric Clapton, the artist at the center of the single most contentious selection in this draft to date, helps defines the difficulties encountered in resolution of this issue.

Mr. Clapton played in the following bands, with some of the great musicians also associated with those bands listed:

The Yardbirds
Jimmy Page (Led Zepplin) Jeff Beck
John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers
Peter Green (early Fleetwood Mac) Mick Jones (Rolling Stones) John McVie (full Fleetwood Mac catalogue) Mic Fleetwood (ditto) Aynsley Dunbar (Frank Zappa and the Mothers, Jefferson Starship, Whitesnake)
Blind Faith
Stevie Winwood (Traffic)
The Cream
Delaney and Bonnie and Friends
Leon Russell, Dr. John, Steven Stills, Joe Cocker,
Derek and the Dominoes
Duane Allman
Remainder of Clapton's solo career

Some of those bands (The Yardbirds, The Bluesbreakers) Mr. Clapton was not the signature, primary member or was so for only a brief time; one of those, Derek and the Dominoes, is clearly an Eric Clapton project/creation, despite the presence of such a legendary musician as Duane Allman. And two of those bands, Blind Faith and The Cream are somewhere in the middle.

Obviously a selection of Clapton in this draft should not include all of the music created by all of the members of all of these bands. That would include Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac and the Stones, already selected, as well as several other bands likely to be drafted later. Just as obvious, a selection of Clapton should not exclude Derek and the Dominoes, a band clearly his very own, as a separate entity, subject to draft eligibility.

And not so obvious, where is The Cream properly classified? Or the lone album issued by the group Blind Faith?

Unfortunately, the issue is not limited to Clapton and The Cream, but includes the practical ramifications of the selection of Neil Young already made at round 2 pick 3 by Pruitt on subsequent availability of Crosby Stills Nash and Young/David Crosby/The Byrds. Further, the issue weighs on similar potential ambiguities and conflicts on future selections in this draft.

The retrospective nature of potential application of this rule, as exemplified by the selection of Neil Young and the implications for subsequent eligibility of CSNY and The Buffalo Springfield and their members for this draft, due to his membership in those two bands prior to his solo career.

While the rule is easily applied to some bands, and only with great difficulty as well as with complex judgment calls and ultimately arbitrary applications, this rule is untenable, and must be overturned. It is not fair to apply it to The Beatles, because it is easy to apply, while not applying it to CNS/CSNY because it is difficult and arbitrary.

Why should John Lennon be ineligible, yet Neil Young is eligible, separate and apart from those earlier bands. Or, why should the drafter of Neil Young not take those other bands off the board, as the choice of Venus and Mars by McCartney, or Imagine by Lennon would remove The Beatles.

Therefore, one of the primary effects of this ruling is to overturn the rule that selection of a group removes solo work from consideration of the draft. This rule is impossible to apply either fairly or widely, much less equally, as discussed above, and thus must be set aside.

While this effect is potentially or in actuality unfair to some members of the draft, negation of this rule is necessary for the greatest amount of fairness to the members of the draft as a whole.

Elimination of the rule does not fully settle the issue before us. The question of when is a band/group identified with a single artist, and when is it the work of a combination. The answer is ‘it depends’. Attempting to define through a set of written rules the conditions that determine the parameters of ‘it depends’ is a difficult task. Preferable to trying to anticipate all future instances, or even to account for the questions raised by the 27 draft choices already registered, is instead assignment of the authority to judge and decide the question on a case-by-case basis. Thus, this ruling authorizes appointment of an arbitrator, as described above.

Finally, the specific and practical conflicts presented by several of the draft choices made to date will be ruled upon by this injunction, as outlined above. The first and largest conflict is how to regard The Cream relative to the solo career of Eric Clapton.

The court struggled with this decision. Cogent and valid arguments on both sides have been presented in this thread prior to the involvement of the court and they have been all seriously considered. With such logical and powerful arguments on both sides, a decision is necessarily arbitrary to a degree.

The court rules that The Cream is deemed to reflect the preponderant influence of Eric Clapton, and will be considered part and parcel of his solo work. Thus, selection of The Cream shall include the prior and subsequent solo works of Mr. Eric Clapton.

While the preliminary injunction and the decision to allow Rush 2112 to revise his draft pick were made in anticipation of a possible contrary ruling of this court, Mr. Rush may have other reasons to revise his choice, and he remains free to do so. He is also free to substitute a solo Clapton album, while retaining the work of The Cream and removing said group work from the board.

The most important considerations in the court’s decision are the role of Mr. Clapton in selecting the members of the group, the degree of control over the croup in contrast to prior bands, and the continuity of the work of The Cream with the immediately following solo work of Mr. Clapton. While it is easy to divide Mr. Clapton’s work at the point of the dissolution of The Cream, it is more practical to divide his work as prior to, and subsequent to his absence from the music world to address his heroin addiction. The quality and style of his music dictates such classification moreso than the existence of the group The Cream.

The court gave strong consideration to the duration of the group and the output of four studio albums, a longer duration and more substantive output than many other bands formed by established musicians.

There are five other specific rulings by the court, detailed above in section 8.). The most important not already discussed is the designation of CSN/CSNY/Crosby and Nash as a group separate and distinct from the other work of the four members of these configurations, and the consideration of those three configurations as one entity, for the sake of convenience.

The question of whether supergroups shall be excluded from the draft will be decided by mister d, administrator of the draft. This is a relatively minor issue and he should be able to handle it. The Travelling Wilburys and The Highwaymen are designated supergroups, and they are considered separate from the other work of their members (Dylan, Harrison, Petty, Orbison, Lynne, Cash, Nelson, Jennings and Kristofferson). The short duration and limited studio output of these two groups are the major factors in designating them supergroups, rather than entities with greater output and stronger identities (such as Zeppelin).

The status of Blind Faith will not be considered at this time. Future litigation may classify this group as a supergroup, or as an extension of the Steve Winwood body of work, or otherwise.

With all sincerity, this makes me really happy.

Oh wow! I’m definitely waiting to read that on work time.

I created a Spotify playlist for the draft:



I noticed is that the spreadsheet embedded on page one has the wrong U2 album for Giff. It should be Joshua Tree, not Achtung Baby.

I hope we're all in the clear now on The Cream.

rass wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:09 am I hope we're all in the clear now on The Cream.

You put it on the skin or you get the hose.

So anyone wanna TL;DR all that Howard mumbo for me?

Just pick a 2000s band and you're safe

Too many great tracks here and a legend not to take off the board early. Though I'm 50/50 on this and Who's Next? -- I believe we have selected a strong candidate.

With the 10th pick in the Second Round, BSF's Vinyl Friday selects:



Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

This gives us the most bank for our buck. Over Honky Chateau and Madman Across the Water.

Carry on kids. Most of the biggies are off the board and I'm excited to see where this goes.

Fuck. Gan I get a ruling on if Bernie Taupin is still available?

This is a tough choice....so many great albums by this artist to choose from. But I have to go with this one, and take Bob Mould off the board:



I'll leave it to the Draft Overseer Howard to rule on whether this also takes Husker Du off the board.

howard wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:48 pm

All hail the wise and powerful Chief Justice Howard!

I was cool with everything up until this point.

Oh, man. That's solid.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:44 am Oh, man. That's solid.

Was tough to choose between that, Workbook, Black Sheets of Rain, or even one of his newer releases. All are very solid.

Toyed with the idea of Zen Arcade, but one could argue that Husker Du is a very different animal, thanks to presence of Grant Hart, then Sugar or any of Mould's solo work.

I hope sancarlos is OK.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:24 am


Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

From the day in December 1973 that my sister gave me this record as a 17th birthday gift until today, a huge favorite of mine. Played it start to finish just last week; there's still a scratch about 4 minutes into Funeral For a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding.. I love these songs so much.

(I'm partial to Tumbleweed Connection for a number two, but all these albums so good.)

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:24 am Too many great tracks here and a legend not to take off the board early. Though I'm 50/50 on this and Who's Next? -- I believe we have selected a strong candidate.

With the 10th pick in the Second Round, BSF's Vinyl Friday selects:



Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

This gives us the most bank for our buck. Over Honky Chateau and Madman Across the Water.

Carry on kids. Most of the biggies are off the board and I'm excited to see where this goes.

I must have been 10 or 11 when I took all of my Hanukkah gelt and went to the local variety store to buy this album. Played it constantly on my little record player, and even though I haven't sought it out in many decades, I can still hear "Grey Seal" bouncing around the back of my brain. Good memories indeed.

Before there was Wilco, before there was Son Volt, there was Uncle Tupelo. I might've been able to get them later in the draft, but I'm going with what I want to have with me at the cabin. I'll let somebody else decide if this takes Wilco and Son Volt off the board.

I picked this particular album partly because of the story behind it. Their first two albums were seminal, aggressive fusions of country and punk. Their record company wanted them to try to be the next Nirvana. They said, "fuck that", and recorded this acoustic album, produced by REM's Peter Buck.

Now we're getting into it...

Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Where does Sun Volt and Wilco fall in line? Asking for a friend.

I can't even pick off some clear Best (Artist) Available because there are too many that could qualify here so I'll go with one away from that list but that I'd be most pissed off not getting. Arguably the best rap album ever ...

duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:01 pm Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Where does Sun Volt and Wilco fall in line? Asking for a friend.

I'd say Son Volt and Wilco should be separate. Uncle Tupelo was clearly the work of both Tweedy and Farrar. Once you split them, their offshoots are separate - but equally awesome - entities.

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:13 pm

duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:01 pm Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Where does Son Volt and Wilco fall in line? Asking for a friend.

I'd say Son Volt and Wilco should be separate. Uncle Tupelo was clearly the work of both Tweedy and Farrar. Once you split them, their offshoots are separate - but equally awesome - entities.

As one who has seen these three bands a total of maybe a dozen times, I endorse Shirley's view.

Great lyrics, great guitar, loud. I listened to it again today to be sure. Didn’t disappoint.

Great picks with Uncle Tupelo and Sugar.

Debating between a few albums here, and I don't really expect any of the others to not make it back to me in Round 3. Last year's The Nashville Sound is fantastic, and maybe even better than my choice, but I'm going with what got me started with him.

Can't wait to see which Tony Bennett album he picks!

Well shit. If you're just going to leave me Mr. Nelson, I'll take him. There's definitely going to be some fucking going on in my cabin.

Great choice.

Fuck. I'm going to see my handful of BAA go, aren't I?

I was hoping Illmatic was going to fall to me in Round 3, so turnabout is fair play.

duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:01 pm Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Paging Chief Justice Howard of New York...

Where does Sun Volt and Wilco fall in line? Asking for a friend.

fuck if I know. I was only a casual fan of Wilco and Son Volt, I had a couple of the Tupelo records and had seen them twice. Frankly, until today I was under the impression there was more cross-pollination of Wilco and Son Volt. I'll have a couple of clerks do the research (and lean heavily on Dave and Sancarlos's input.) (and anyone else who wants to chime in.) Will rule shortly (halftime of the Warrior game tonight maybe.)

Wow, stock of The Who rapidly plummeting toward blasphemous status.