The Swamp

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:37 pm He intentionally spiked the dude.

How are you determining intent? The umps clearly didn’t reach that conclusion after a 4 minute review where they probably watched the slide a dozen times. The facts are that Austin slid feet first, straight through the bag. Devers did not leave the bag before contact was made. Devers isn’t owed any type of deference in that situation. At all. What if Devers bobbled the throw? If you’ve got Austin re-purposing his slide so as to not risk touching a guy who may decide to not get out of the way, then he’d still be out.

That’s not how baseball is played. That’s also not how baseball’s played considering the recent rule changes. The umps backed up that assertion, btw.

Again - it goes back to intent, and frankly, the other side to that coin is Devers not leaving the area (like all 2B/SS would) to avoid contact. In other words, as easy as it is for you to blame Austin, I can say Devers was looking to force the ump’s hand to call a DP for interference.

I didn’t say it was rulebook interference, I said it was dirty (or a “dick slide”).

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:02 pm I didn’t say it was rulebook interference, I said it was dirty (or a “dick slide”).

And for the reasons I already laid out, no, it wasn’t. The guy clearly plays hard, but there was nothing cheap about that slide at all. Not when you have a 3B running in to make a play, and then turn to throw against his body to 2B. Not even close to a dick slide. I would argue that Devers was a pussy for reacting that way, though. So there’s that? The biggest pussy of them all was Cora ordering Kelly to plunk Austin 5 innings later. That’s the stuff that’ll get the manager suspended a game.

C’mon dude. Unless you’re saying spiking isn’t dirty, watch the reverse angle and say that wasn’t a clear spike.

Also watch any angle to find out it wasn't Devers

ETA: It was a completely bad slide, Holt's reaction was exactly right, the benches stupidly emptied, the retaliation pitch can come 6 months later so I don't see why 2 plate appearances later (because game situations) is an affront to the unwritten rules, and Joe Kelly rules so much that I wish we didn't actually count on him.

It was a terrible slide. Just the reaction of the second baseman tells you all you need to know about if it was OK or not.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:15 pm C’mon dude. Unless you’re saying spiking isn’t dirty, watch the reverse angle and say that wasn’t a clear spike.

I hadn’t seen the reverse angle until this AM. It was a dirty slide. Odd the umps didn’t call the DP there.

Joe Kelly though deserves derision for going at him again after missing on his intent pitch. And by going at him again, I mean throwing a 98 MPH fastball at his rib cage (deflecting off his elbow - the kind that can end a players’ season like it may well have for Elvis Andrus yesterday).

Looking back at the AB where Kelly is setting up Austin to drill him, the HP ump, Hunter Wendelstedt should’ve issued warnings to both benches after Kelly missed on his intent pitch that almost nailed him earlier in the count, in order to address what was coming. It doesn’t take too much prescience to see what was going to happen there.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:31 pm Odd the umps didn’t call the DP there.

I don't even know the rule, but I'm guessing they don't have to call the batter out if he's basically already at 1st base by the time the slide happened. Holt doesn't even pretend to throw it.

By the way, I enjoyed the hell out of the Nevin-Boone-Cora stuff. Imagine if every coach was a 43-year-old ex-player?

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:06 pm

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:31 pm Odd the umps didn’t call the DP there.

I don't even know the rule, but I'm guessing they don't have to call the batter out if he's basically already at 1st base by the time the slide happened. Holt doesn't even pretend to throw it.

No he doesn't, but he certainly set up to make a turn to throw to 1B, and I'm certain that's why Austin was sliding in as he did.

Actually, if you think about it, Holt fucked up by not completing the throw to 1B. If the umps had access to this video:

Spikes up is dirty and maybe ejectable but I don’t even know if you can assume the second out if his path is legal. I don’t feel like googling.

Sounds right

Violators will be called out for interference, and the batter-runner will also be called out. Interference will not be called, however, if the contact is caused by the fielder positioning himself or moving into the runner's legal path to the base.

Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:19 am Sounds right

Violators will be called out for interference, and the batter-runner will also be called out. Interference will not be called, however, if the contact is caused by the fielder positioning himself or moving into the runner's legal path to the base.

I’m not sure the legal path of the runner fits here. Austin makes contact with Holt’s foot when he’s about a foot off the bag, and given the trajectory of Austin’s leg after contact, it was clear where he was going with it.

Damn I missed baseball.

Next up: Gary Sanchez is not a good enough defensive catcher for a team looked upon to win 95 games.

So Joe Mauer just got hit 2,000. Only catcher with three batting titles...HOF? I say it's really close.

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:56 pm So Joe Mauer just got hit 2,000. Only catcher with three batting titles...HOF? I say it's really close.

Well, if you're to go by JAWS, then he's a lock. But that's just a single metric. He's either close or nowhere near it in the others. Here's a perfect example of a guy without the team-related hardware that is better than more than 1/2 the catchers in the HOF.

Mauer's BB-Ref page

Butthole perfect through six.

Because, baseball. I love obscure baseball stats and this is one is great!

@ESPNStatsInfo
Eric Thames hit a 2-run HR in back-to-back 2-0 wins. According to @EliasSports, there is only one other player in MLB history to have one HR account for all the runs between both teams in back-to-back games....

It was Joe Panik, who did it in the 1st two games of this season

Reds fire Bryan Price.

Reds fans rejoice, but it's going to be a long year.

This seems like one of those moves that doesn't matter and makes a difference at the same time. It's not like they're going to turn it around this year but something had to be done in order to maintain whatever little fan interest there is or can be

It was two years past due. It doesn't change anything, but it was totally time. I still can't believe they picked up his option in the off-season and brought him back. He sucked.

Joe Sheehan agrees.

Lest anyone feel bad for Price or think this is “sudden” - he managed 666 games with a .420 winning percentage. It is really unusual for someone to get that long who has presided over that much losing. The reds have plenty of problems, but just because they have a lot of problems shouldn’t stop them from addressing one of them - which was that price was fuckawful at his job.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:02 am Lest anyone feel bad for Price or think this is “sudden” - he managed 666 games with a .420 winning percentage. It is really unusual for someone to get that long who has presided over that much losing. The reds have plenty of problems, but just because they have a lot of problems shouldn’t stop them from addressing one of them - which was that price was fuckawful at his job.

Was this all a tribute to Marge Schott?

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:04 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:02 am Lest anyone feel bad for Price or think this is “sudden” - he managed 666 games with a .420 winning percentage. It is really unusual for someone to get that long who has presided over that much losing. The reds have plenty of problems, but just because they have a lot of problems shouldn’t stop them from addressing one of them - which was that price was fuckawful at his job.

Was this all a tribute to Marge Schott?

Heh. That makes as much sense as anything else.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 am Joe Sheehan agrees.

I wouldn't say the Reds had no plan. Price was always going to be the stopgap for the rebuild process. If, by some miracle, he over-achieved then he had a shot to hang on but that was never very likely. The mistake was re-upping him after last season and then canning him 18 games in. Should have made the commitment to part ways last year or keep him all of this year. They just didn't count on such a terrible start and fan backlash.

Despite poor attendance recently IMO Cincinnati has always been a baseball-first town.

The weather has been total shit which doesn't help attendance either.

The Reds have lost 15 games and it's still Week 1. I think this was a no-brainer.

The Tigers are going to find a way to blow this.

GoodKarma wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:58 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 am Joe Sheehan agrees.

I wouldn't say the Reds had no plan. Price was always going to be the stopgap for the rebuild process. If, by some miracle, he over-achieved then he had a shot to hang on but that was never very likely. The mistake was re-upping him after last season and then canning him 18 games in. Should have made the commitment to part ways last year or keep him all of this year. They just didn't count on such a terrible start and fan backlash.

Despite poor attendance recently IMO Cincinnati has always been a baseball-first town.

I get that they are not a particularly talented team, but by re-upping him in the offseason, they lost money by firing him, officially punted on this season, which will result in some loss of ticket revenue (not saying a lot because it's not hard to see they were a league bottom-feeder, regardless), and lost out on any candidate who got a job last offseason. I don't think a lot of fans were excited the team decided to bring him back in the offseason.

Gary Sanchez with two more passed balls tonight. There's simply no way this guy's good enough behind the plate for a championship caliber team. I mean, that's OK because the Yankees are most assuredly not that anyway.

Need a defensive stalwart like Posada.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:41 pm Need a defensive stalwart like Posada.

Actually, Posada was a decidedly below average catcher. But not like this.

I just ran a sort of all catchers data (all time). Eliminated years where SB / CS were not tracked, and filtered for minimum 100 games caught.

It produced 528 catchers.

Sanchez ranks 516th all time in PB_G, (Posada 408th) and 526th all time in WP_G (Posada 422nd).

Dude's a mess back there.

Take that Mister D!

Yeah man, dead. Posada played an entire career as a bottom 20th percentile defensive C and has all but a thumb of rings but we’re pretty sure Sanchez can’t ever win because he’s lower after like 200 games. I would trade him for Yadi.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 pm Yeah man, dead. Posada played an entire career as a bottom 20th percentile defensive C and has all but a thumb of rings but we’re pretty sure Sanchez can’t ever win because he’s lower after like 200 games. I would trade him for Yadi.

Except that Sanchez is ranked at the 2.2% in PB/G (Posada 23%), and .004% in WP/G (Posada being 20.01%).

I’d like to understand these #s a bit more closely, but I gotta shut’er down.

(Add in CS.)

You know who was a great catcher? Me neither, but I'll guess 1987 Tim Laudner

Nichols’ Law.

I just want a guy who swings a good bat and will enforce the unwritten rules