The Swamp

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:48 am**

swamp question....the other night the astros beat the padres on an extra inning walk off infield fly with two outs. ive watched the play several times and have been havingnan ongoing debate with some friends...who do you put the blame on? Hosmer at first for overrunning the flyball, the pitcher for not moving, the catcher for not moving, or a percentage breakdown between the 3? I feel as though its on the pitcher..he had the shortest distance without having to remove a mask and the catcher has a worse glove...but im willing to listen to other arguements

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:25 am**

Hosmer's ball all the way, which he's done a pretty admirable job of stating and restating. Catcher would have to get past the ball and turn around, pitcher is never supposed to field a ball off the mound.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:26 am**

100% 1B. There is no other way to view that. 1B seemed like he got a real late start on it and then tried to sprint to get there. Pitcher never supposed to make that play and he actually moved toward the ball once he saw 1B overran it. Tougher play for the catcher since its way into fair territory. Mostly the runner on second makes a nice play to run that out and score. I bet plenty of guys jog around third and and then turn it on when the ball drops.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:28 am**

I seem to recall defenses being coached that the pitcher should never field a pop-up whenever possible because coming down off the mound could lead to footing issues. I think the catcher stayed at the plate in the event of a potential tag play, so I would guess Hosmer because my brain thinks overrunning the ball is because he took his eye off the ball. Did any of the players talk about if anyone was directing traffic verbally by calling for it or calling for Hosmer to catch it?

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:00 am**

A pop up like that is either the 1B or 3B, depending on the side of the mound the ball’s hit. The SS / 2B rotate to cover any bags abandoned.

Oh and Gerrit Cole should be pitching for the Yankees. The prospect hugging that went on this past off season will be why they don’t win the division.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:07 am**

I thought what I read was we put 4 off limits, Torres, Andujar, Florial and Sheffield, and they picked the Houston package over Frazier + Adams. I don't have any issue with that approach.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:22 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:07 am I thought what I read was we put 4 off limits, Torres, Andujar, Florial and Sheffield, and they picked the Houston package over Frazier + Adams. I don't have any issue with that approach.

Frazier + Adams for Cole is laughable and suggests Cashman was never serious about acquiring the proven top half-of-the-rotation arm (with upside). The unfortunate reality of having all these prospects is that most of them are never going to be as valuable to the team as they are right now and any trade partner will want one of the shinier objects to part with any of their bonafide assets. That doesn’t even address the worst-case-scenario of the Houston Astros slotting Gerrit Cole into the 4 spot of their rotation.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:32 am**

Given what Houston gave up, I don't agree at all. Frazier is clearly more valuable than anyone Houston gave up; Pittsburgh either loved someone in the package or just fucked up the trade.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:24 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:32 am Given what Houston gave up, I don't agree at all. Frazier is clearly more valuable than anyone Houston gave up; Pittsburgh either loved someone in the package or just fucked up the trade.

Eh. Moran is on par with Frazier in the sense he’s an MLB ready talent (premium position, too). The upside arm, Michael Feliz is probably what Justus Sheffield turns into in a couple years. Joe Musgrove is an MLB ready arm that slots right into the back half of the rotation.

Actually, as I now understand it, the choice was a package based on either Frazier OR Adams, not both.

The Astros clearly didn’t need Cole. The trade however further cements them as prohibitive favorites to be playing deep into October (where, admittedly anything can happen).

The Yankees clearly did need Cole. Or somebody else to push Gray down to 4 and Montgomery 5. CC was not that guy. If he was to be brought back, he needed to be a long man out of the pen.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:29 am**

Hmmm, that would be worse. I still think Frazier + "others" would have been the right way to go for Pittsburgh because you should take the best possible player, but Adams not as the 2nd piece probably lowers the value enough that it wasn't so bad.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:39 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:29 am Hmmm, that would be worse. I still think Frazier + "others" would have been the right way to go for Pittsburgh because you should take the best possible player, but Adams not as the 2nd piece probably lowers the value enough that it wasn't so bad.

Well, they clearly valued Musgrove’s reality over Adams’ potential. Mistake or not, there was an immediate need to replace Cole in the rotation. I’m gathering they didn’t feel McCutchen was going to be able to net that type of return.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:57 am**

Found on another site:

Joe Dimaggio struck out less times (13) in one of his three MVP seasons (1941) than Giancarlo Stanton did last week (16).

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:25 am Hosmer's ball all the way, which he's done a pretty admirable job of stating and restating. Catcher would have to get past the ball and turn around, pitcher is never supposed to field a ball off the mound.

why though? I feel like it was an 80 foot run for hosmer and a 9 foot walk for the pitcher.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:52 pm**

I don't know its any one reason, just a combination of a pitcher not always being in fielding position, having to come down off the mound and probably avoidance of injury. It doesn't really matter that Hosmer had to go 80 feet given that the ball only landed 75 feet from where he started. The weirdest thing is that he was watching the entire way, it wasn't like he put his head down to get to a spot and lost it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:38 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:52 pm I don't know its any one reason, just a combination of a pitcher not always being in fielding position, having to come down off the mound and probably avoidance of injury. It doesn't really matter that Hosmer had to go 80 feet given that the ball only landed 75 feet from where he started. The weirdest thing is that he was watching the entire way, it wasn't like he put his head down to get to a spot and lost it.

it's perhaps the dumbest unwritten baseball defensive rule

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm**

Or not. I'll take 100 years of baseball tradition. Over under on minutes spent by mlb pitchers on popups after spring training? That alone is enough. Honestly I've no clue how you replicate the spin on a pitched ball pop up to practice.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:10 pm**

I don’t think it’s bad at all. Probably creates less drops overall by avoiding collisions, esp since every fielder would have to have a sense for 20+ pitchers each season.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:13 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm Honestly I've no clue how you replicate the spin on a pitched ball pop up to practice.

Just hire [goes to Fangraphs] Eric Byrnes as an instructor.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:56 am**

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:04 pm**

He's the best.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:59 pm**

Aaron Sanchez with a no no through 7.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:16 pm**

bfj wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:59 pm Aaron Sanchez with a no no through 7.

That worked well.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:34 pm**

Yanks Pythag all fucked up now.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:17 pm**

bfj wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:16 pm
bfj wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:59 pm Aaron Sanchez with a no no through 7.
That worked well.

I thought the first one ruled to be an official hit by the scorekeeper wasn't supposed to be one that went through the fielder's legs. (Next one was clean, so irrelevant, but...)

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:59 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:13 am Babe Ruth wouldn’t stand a chance against Chasen Shreve.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:17 am**

Betts is a righty.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:17 am**

So if what Rick Sutcliffe said about Severino tipping his pitches is true, then a) what’s that say about the Yankees’ ability to evaluate in-game situations, and b) Severino himself? I mean, yeah, he shit the bed and then rolled around in it in that WC game last year, but last night was as big of a Yankee game you’re going to see in (any) April, and simply put, they knew to lay off his sliders.

I have zero faith in his ability to front a rotation. He can be the game’s best 2 or 3 for all I care, but he’s lacking that something that tells me he’s a stopper.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:26 pm**

I wasn't around for the start and then didn't bother by the time I was ... what was Sutcliffe saying? I could see tipping being more common in cold weather where the grip just isn't there (and you know your opponent is going to be huge dicks about a little pine tar).

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:48 pm**

It was not the grip but the glove.

Sutcliffe was showing how Severino held his glove right next to his body for fastball and a bit away from body for slider.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:59 pm**

He could have been angled out more when trying to get the slider grip, that's what I meant, although its usually glove movement and not placement. I'm not worried unless he suddenly can't control this.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:04 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:59 pm He could have been angled out more when trying to get the slider grip, that's what I meant, although its usually glove movement and not placement. I'm not worried unless he suddenly can't control this.

Well, there's ample evidence that last night his wipe-out pitch was rendered entirely useless (meaning, they knew to lay off it, regardless of its effectiveness), and then sit fastball.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:04 pm**

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.3928118

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:54 pm**

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:04 pm**

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:34 pm**

Man, I would not make Arenado mad.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:34 pm**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:04 pm

Arenado's mistake there was flinching instead of readying himself to land one when Perdomo threw his glove at him, cuz at the end of said delivery, Arenado would've cancelled Perdomo's dinner plans for the foreseeable future.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:11 pm**

True. I think the play is to parry the glove with your lead left, similar to the way Vitali Kiltschko bats away jabs on shorter fighters. Arenado then has the right cross ready.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:16 pm**

Dick slide.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:30 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:16 pmDick slide.

No it really wasn’t. Devers was exactly where his foot would be coming up. The dick move was waiting 5 innings later to plunk him in the ribs with a 98 mph fastball. Considering that they reviewed the slide and called it clean, Cora needs to be suspended a game, too.

Curious why you think that was a “Dick slide”?

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:37 pm**

He intentionally spiked the dude.

The Swamp

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