The Swamp

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:33 pm LeBron doesnt score like Jordan. Not even close. And he doesnt pass like Magic either. Really, hes not as big as Karl Malone either. You dont have to make up stuff to argue that LeBron is the best ever. I disagree and so would MJ but his relative weakness has always been an ability to score himself. No one ever said that about MJ. The passing has always been his unique trait but its not like hes the best passer in the history of the league or even on page one really. By the end of his career Malone was seriously swole. Like thighs for arms swole. LeBron doesnt dominate the post or the boards like Malone.

You really think Lebron James has difficulty scoring himself?

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:33 pm LeBron doesnt score like Jordan. Not even close.

Not even close? He averages 27.2 ppg for his career. Which bumps up to 28.6 ppg in the playoffs. That’s quite the “relative weakness.”

Really, hes not as big as Karl Malone either. You dont have to make up stuff to argue that LeBron is the best ever... By the end of his career Malone was seriously swole. Like thighs for arms swole. LeBron doesnt dominate the post or the boards like Malone.

Both guys are listed at 250 on Basketball Reference. And LeBron definitely played closer to 270 in Miami.

And if you don’t think LeBron is one of the best passers ever, we’re watching different sports apparently.

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:48 pm

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:33 pm LeBron doesnt score like Jordan. Not even close.

Not even close? He averages 27.2 ppg for his career. Which bumps up to 28.6 ppg in the playoffs. That’s quite the “relative weakness.”

Really, hes not as big as Karl Malone either. You dont have to make up stuff to argue that LeBron is the best ever... By the end of his career Malone was seriously swole. Like thighs for arms swole. LeBron doesnt dominate the post or the boards like Malone.

Both guys are listed at 250 on Basketball Reference. And LeBron definitely played closer to 270 in Miami.

And if you don’t think LeBron is one of the best passers ever, we’re watching different sports apparently.

I'll be honest. I went back and re-read that, and there is a lot to unpack in his post. I just really don't understand it at all. I'm trying to abstain due to my Stan level, but man.

We dodged the Jordan vs. LeBron war that rages so violently on Twitter for longer than I would have guessed.

brian wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:55 pm We dodged the Jordan vs. LeBron war that rages so violently on Twitter for longer than I would have guessed.

I'll just say that either of them can (and could) do pretty much anything they want on a basketball court.

Didn’t watch the game but I laughed when I saw the Pelicans-Warriors box score and recap. 4 points on 2-11 shooting, 10 rebounds, 21 assists and a shoving match with Draymond is Peak Rondo. If only scoring weren’t an object of the sport he’d be one of the best basketball players ever.

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 9:50 pm Didn’t watch the game but I laughed when I saw the Pelicans-Warriors box score and recap. 4 points on 2-11 shooting, 10 rebounds, 21 assists and a shoving match with Draymond is Peak Rondo. If only scoring weren’t an object of the sport he’d be one of the best basketball players ever.

As someone who did watch a little last night, I'd like to add him using every trick in the book defending Durant on the perimeter while giving up almost a foot to that list.

I kept going back to how much I want someone to actually ask him why there is such a difference between Rondo and "Playoff Rondo".

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 8:53 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 9:50 pm Didn’t watch the game but I laughed when I saw the Pelicans-Warriors box score and recap. 4 points on 2-11 shooting, 10 rebounds, 21 assists and a shoving match with Draymond is Peak Rondo. If only scoring weren’t an object of the sport he’d be one of the best basketball players ever.

As someone who did watch a little last night, I'd like to add him using every trick in the book defending Durant on the perimeter while giving up almost a foot to that list.

I kept going back to how much I want someone to actually ask him why there is such a difference between Rondo and "Playoff Rondo".

Rondo denies there’s a difference, but ESPN ran an article the other day about how he’s the only player of this era whose per-game points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and and turnovers all improve in the postseason. (There’s a small handful who improve in everything but turnovers but it’s obviously hard to do more elsewhere while lowering your turnovers.) Also, he’s just the perfect kind of asshole to be a foil for Draymond.

I watched some ESPN highlights of Rondo's game, and while 21 assists is very impressive. the league has gotten VERY lenient in what's an assist these days. One one, Rondo passed to Davis outside the three point line. Davis squared up his defender and pump faked. When the defender jumped, Davis put the ball on the floor and drove to the hoop for a layup. Assist, Rondo.

I remember seeing similar "assists" in highlights last year of Westbrook's triple double season.

Tying in the earlier conversation, if any pass completed before a bucket is an assist, you'd have to assume Jordan would have averaged a couple more per game for his career.

Philly is a shithole

Oof. That’s a howler, philly.

I don’t care if he ever wins a title, Brad Stevens is the best in-game coach I’ve ever seen. Also, Philly’s performance this series really reminds me of the Thunder in the 2011 West Finals. OKC could’ve won just about every game in that series but lost to the Mavs in 5 games because the Mavs had such superior late game execution. That’s largely a product of youth but for all of Brett Brown’s strengths, he’s not great at end of game coaching. They lost a number of winnable close games in the first half of this season and it’s rearing its head in a big way now.

I want Celtics to suck because I want Stevens at UK when cal quits. But seems unlikely of course. I actually think he goes to duke when K retires.

In years to come, people will look shocked when told that the 2017 Raptors were the #1 seed in the east. I'm going to watch a documentary or something, fuck this team.

A_B wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 8:44 pm I want Celtics to suck because I want Stevens at UK when cal quits. But seems unlikely of course. I actually think he goes to duke when K retires.

I don’t think there’s any chance Stevens ever goes back to college. He doesn’t strike me as someone who would want to focus a lot on recruiting, like college coaches need to (especially at schools like UK and Duke). Being in the NBA lets him just coach the game without dealing with recruiting, boosters, etc. But if he ever did go to a mega program like UK or Duke, he would terrorize the NCAA game.

Which is why I think he does go back to college. He’s a savant.

Derozan sitting entire fourth is odd.

LeBron James is not human.

Sabo wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 pm LeBron James is not human.

I've had a few drinks tonight, so this may be rash, but fuck it: I'm ready to declare him the best team sports athlete ever. Just unreal.

I’m in love.

As if we didn't already know. LeBron remains the man. Toronto faces worth the ticket.

I know I'm a broken record, but this LeBron postseason is just stupid and I can't help myself. Toronto showed a lot of heart, played a near perfect fourth quarter, and lost because LeBron is actually a cyborg. He just dropped 38/7/6, with a buzzer beater, and it's probably only his 5th best game in the last 3 weeks.

Also, if Justin Trudeau has any self-respect, he'll immediately propose legislation to bar LeBron from ever entering Canada again.

Joe K wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 10:19 pmI've had a few drinks tonight, so this may be rash, but fuck it: I'm ready to declare him the best team sports athlete ever. Just unreal.

I think it’s harder to argue he isn’t.

Also, the coolest thing Stevens could do would be ending up back at Butler seeing if he can get that championship.

I know nobody besides giff gives a shit about the rockets but Clint Capella ended the game tonight with like 5 blocks on Utah's last 6 possessions.

TT2.0 wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 10:39 pm I know nobody besides giff gives a shit about the rockets but Clint Capella ended the game tonight with like 5 blocks on Utah's last 6 possessions.

And they made Mitchell sad. LOL.

And that's the fight we're used to seeing from the Raptors.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:19 pm And that's the fight we're used to seeing from the Raptors.

It’s pretty terrible right now

A_B wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:19 pm And that's the fight we're used to seeing from the Raptors.

It’s pretty terrible right now

The very essence of sports fandom is belief. They were the #1 seed.

Worse is the feeling that the last few years weren't aberrations - that this team is a fraud and that the all-stars are expendable.This sweep will sting for years.

Does Masai gut the team? Because who is going to believe that they are capable of doing anything more than squeaking through first round series with these players?

Oof. Derozan will be sitting fourth again. I don’t agree with that call. But I think his days in Toronto are done.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:36 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:19 pm And that's the fight we're used to seeing from the Raptors.

It’s pretty terrible right now

The very essence of sports fandom is belief. They were the #1 seed.

Worse is the feeling that the last few years weren't aberrations - that this team is a fraud and that the all-stars are expendable.This sweep will sting for years.

Does Masai gut the team? Because who is going to believe that they are capable of doing anything more than squeaking through first round series with these players?

Blow it up. Finish last and draft Barrett in 2019

I wouldn’t blow it up. But I would really, really hope that LeBron goes to LA or Houston this offseason. The Raptors have been an okay playoff team against other opponents since 2016, but they’re 2-12 against the Cavs.

I can’t figure out why Indiana gave Cleveland such a harder time. Was it just a case of Cleveland’s non-LBJ guys sucking, Lue playing the wrong lineups, or Indiana doing something smart tactically? I think Oladipo is better than anyone on Toronto, but the Raptors otherwise have the better roster.

In a vacuum without money and fans and credibility, they should start bottoming out. Even if LeBron was out of the picture, they're still the 3rd or 4th best team on paper in the conference for the foreseeable future and their 2nd best player is 32.

Joe K wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 pm I wouldn’t blow it up. But I would really, really hope that LeBron goes to LA or Houston this offseason. The Raptors have been an okay playoff team against other opponents since 2016, but they’re 2-12 against the Cavs.

I can’t figure out why Indiana gave Cleveland such a harder time. Was it just a case of Cleveland’s non-LBJ guys sucking, Lue playing the wrong lineups, or Indiana doing something smart tactically? I think Oladipo is better than anyone on Toronto, but the Raptors otherwise have the better roster.

Lot of talk here about the stupidity of putting Noguiera into the game. As though those couple of minutes started the tide turning.

The bench was supposed to make the big difference, but guys like Siakam can only do so much when your superstar is lost in space... again.

I hate the idea of blowing up the team, because that inevitably leads to at least 3 terrible seasons. But it's obvious that the ceiling has been reached.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 7:15 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 pm I wouldn’t blow it up. But I would really, really hope that LeBron goes to LA or Houston this offseason. The Raptors have been an okay playoff team against other opponents since 2016, but they’re 2-12 against the Cavs.

I can’t figure out why Indiana gave Cleveland such a harder time. Was it just a case of Cleveland’s non-LBJ guys sucking, Lue playing the wrong lineups, or Indiana doing something smart tactically? I think Oladipo is better than anyone on Toronto, but the Raptors otherwise have the better roster.

Lot of talk here about the stupidity of putting Noguiera into the game. As though those couple of minutes started the tide turning.

The bench was supposed to make the big difference, but guys like Siakam can only do so much when your superstar is lost in space... again.

Also, the advantage of a deep bench typically dissipates a bit in the postseason no matter what, because opposing teams can and will play their stars longer minutes. When the Cavs beat the Warriors two years ago they only gave 7 guys meaningful minutes and I believe James, Irving, Thompson and Smith all averaged 40+ minutes per game. Not even Thibadeau would do that during the regular season, which is why having a good bench matters more then.

A_B wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:39 pm Oof. Derozan will be sitting fourth again. I don’t agree with that call. But I think his days in Toronto are done.

I think they should send him out, as well. Lowry's contract is more expensive for an older player. If the Lakers wash out in their attempts to land LeBron and Paul George, sending Derozan home should be a possibility.

Chris Paul has been an assassin in the 4th. 13 straight. On all kinds of heat check shots.

I thought Chris Paul’s prior lack of Conference Finals appearances was because he’s an unclutch choker!

Not sure why, but I watched both the halftime and post-game on TNT. I'm not predicting a Houston win in the next series. But I am predicting a very competitive series. To laugh off the Rockets is absurd.