NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

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NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Joe K » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:50 pm

The piece that ESPN posted tonight on Maryland’s football program is horrifying. One of their offensive linemen died of heatstroke during a workout this summer, which led a number of players and coaches to speak out (mostly anonymously) about a culture of abuse driven by the head coach and strength coach. It’s repulsive that coaches anywhere would think they can treat players like this.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:13 am

More like a coach that wants to win more than develop good people. Pretty much like half the NCAA. Fear, intimation and embarrassment are effective motivators. There are better ways to do it but it does work. As for the workouts, I'm not mad at the coaches other than failure to have medical oversight with authority to pull kids off the field. That should be an NCAA mandate cause coaches are going to push to the limit as is rightful. The flip side is a tired kid getting injured or missing out on opportunities because they're not in top shape. Jimbo Fisher (maybe Bowden) is on tape telling a kid his job is to keep going and the coaches job is to have docs bring him back to life. I don't think this is shocking or horrifying just a guy that doesn't have the confidence to do it the right way and kids that are hoodwinked into thinking they are students instead of sport business investments.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Joe K » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:31 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:13 am
More like a coach that wants to win more than develop good people. Pretty much like half the NCAA. Fear, intimation and embarrassment are effective motivators. There are better ways to do it but it does work. As for the workouts, I'm not mad at the coaches other than failure to have medical oversight with authority to pull kids off the field. That should be an NCAA mandate cause coaches are going to push to the limit as is rightful.
Well, thank goodness for this! When I hear that a coaching staff worked a healthy 19 year old to death, my first concern is whether they were using effective motivational techniques.

Also, you and I have very, very different definitions of “rightful.”

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by mister d » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:02 pm

Hitting with golf clubs would probably be an effective motivator too because most people don't want to get hit with a golf club.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:10 pm

When it comes to this level I am pretty much ok with whatever conditioning programs the coaching staffs implement so long as there are medical protocols followed. I don't think you can get to an elite level athletically without risk of death. I don't see in the article where they were using training methods out of line with other major college football programs. Seems like the kid happened to die at a program where the coach is an asshole.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:19 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:10 pm
When it comes to this level I am pretty much ok with whatever conditioning programs the coaching staffs implement so long as there are medical protocols followed. I don't think you can get to an elite level athletically without risk of death. I don't see in the article where they were using training methods out of line with other major college football programs. Seems like the kid happened to die at a program where the coach is an asshole.
That is chilling and pretty much explains why US College Sports is the cesspool that it is.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:44 pm

I can’t leave this country fast enough. The scary part is that maybe half or more of the population would agree with that monstrous take.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Joe K » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:19 pm
HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:10 pm
When it comes to this level I am pretty much ok with whatever conditioning programs the coaching staffs implement so long as there are medical protocols followed. I don't think you can get to an elite level athletically without risk of death. I don't see in the article where they were using training methods out of line with other major college football programs. Seems like the kid happened to die at a program where the coach is an asshole.
That is chilling and pretty much explains why US College Sports is the cesspool that it is.
Fortunately the University doesn’t seem to view it as a case where a kid just “happened to die” or where risking death is just part of the deal. Because they just placed Durkin on administrative leave.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by mister d » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:02 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:10 pm
I don't see in the article where they were using training methods out of line with other major college football programs.
They were trying to drag a semi-conscious player to his next drill and then he died. This isn’t some “good process, bad result” deal.
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My people call that Kishka.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm

They placed him on leave after an article was written. Didn't this guy die a while ago?

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm

Lots of fine people on both sides — the coaches that kill kids and those who don’t.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:32 pm

mister d wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:02 pm
HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:10 pm
I don't see in the article where they were using training methods out of line with other major college football programs.
They were trying to drag a semi-conscious player to his next drill and then he died. This isn’t some “good process, bad result” deal.
I read that the coach told the guys to drag him through a last sprint. Guess I could go both ways on that. I bet that happens in preseason conditioning but yeah maybe over the line. I'm not sure it's that far over the line if it is. But just what I got from the article. Seemed to lack something outrageous outside the result.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by mister d » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:40 pm

C’mon.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Joe K » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:51 pm

If you actually think that what Maryland’s coaches did is par for the course for NCAA football, you should be calling for the entire sport to get shut down rather than excusing their behavior.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:57 pm

Well yes. That would be the discussion. Or at least a divorce from colleges.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:30 pm

I don’t think they’re gonna get worked less hard with colleges not involved. In theory at least there’s a level of oversight there (and not just the NCAA).
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Rex » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:31 pm

These Maryland guys may be on the dumb end of the spectrum, but they're hardly the only guys who've convinced themselves they are training Navy Seals out there.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:27 pm

Rex wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:31 pm
These Maryland guys may be on the dumb end of the spectrum, but they're hardly the only guys who've convinced themselves they are training Navy Seals out there.
These are "Leaders of men" who all think they're George Patton. So fucking twisted.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:27 pm

Rex wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:31 pm
These Maryland guys may be on the dumb end of the spectrum, but they're hardly the only guys who've convinced themselves they are training Navy Seals out there.
If you end up getting heat stroke you’re a pussy anyway and you deserve to die. So it’s all good.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by mister d » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:55 pm

Rex wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:31 pm
These Maryland guys may be on the dumb end of the spectrum, but they're hardly the only guys who've convinced themselves they are training Navy Seals out there.
Do Navy Seals often die in training?
bfj wrote:
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My people call that Kishka.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Joe K » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:08 pm

mister d wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:55 pm
Rex wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:31 pm
These Maryland guys may be on the dumb end of the spectrum, but they're hardly the only guys who've convinced themselves they are training Navy Seals out there.
Do Navy Seals often die in training?
I think it’s especially damning that he apparently died of heatstroke after displaying signs of obvious distress. I’d be more inclined to give the coaches some benefit of the doubt if the kid had an irregular heartbeat or some other latent health condition. But this seems to have been completely avoidable.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Vegas Golden Knights retired numbers:
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:06 pm

brian wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:28 pm
Leaders of Men!

What a revolting, revolting situation.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:35 pm

It is sub-optimal.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm
They placed him on leave after an article was written. Didn't this guy die a while ago?
Article says May 29. It is INSANE that this wasn't a story earlier. If this was MI, OSU or PSU one of the uber nerd blogs alone would've uncovered this stuff in June.

I don't have time to type it all up, but this is what happens when a school like MD gets dropped into one of the most competitive divisions in college football. You can't make a bunch of 3 stars instantly ready to take on some of the most storied programs in the country. Durkin and I guess this Court guy are attempting the impossible and their methods (allegedly) stink to high heaven.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by A_B » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm
They placed him on leave after an article was written. Didn't this guy die a while ago?
Article says May 29. It is INSANE that this wasn't a story earlier. If this was MI, OSU or PSU one of the uber nerd blogs alone would've uncovered this stuff in June.

I don't have time to type it all up, but this is what happens when a school like MD gets dropped into one of the most competitive divisions in college football. You can't make a bunch of 3 stars instantly ready to take on some of the most storied programs in the country. Durkin and I guess this Court guy are attempting the impossible and their methods (allegedly) stink to high heaven.
Sigh. Don't I know it.
certainly expansive during tactical areas and specific zones

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:37 am

A_B wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm
They placed him on leave after an article was written. Didn't this guy die a while ago?
Article says May 29. It is INSANE that this wasn't a story earlier. If this was MI, OSU or PSU one of the uber nerd blogs alone would've uncovered this stuff in June.

I don't have time to type it all up, but this is what happens when a school like MD gets dropped into one of the most competitive divisions in college football. You can't make a bunch of 3 stars instantly ready to take on some of the most storied programs in the country. Durkin and I guess this Court guy are attempting the impossible and their methods (allegedly) stink to high heaven.
Sigh.
Not sure if you're taking a shot and I'm not going back to pull the quotes from the article, but what you bolded is almost word-for-word. They killed a kid because they are trying to get players to an unattainable level. They are getting blown out on a weekly basis because they simply don't have the talent to compete. And they hired this asshole to try to milk a stone dry and now a kid's dead.

There were a lot of people saying MD and Rutgers had no business being in the B1G. I don't think anyone said "because someone's gonna die" but definitely that they just weren't equipped to be competitive.

MD is the only major college football program in the state (Navy is what it is). They should be better than they have been over the last decade-plus. Rutgers is in a somewhat similar situation. But just dropping yourself into a league doesn't erase your historically bad attempts at building a program.

ETA: Ah, I see you edited. Understood.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by A_B » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:45 am

Yeah, I realized it was ambiguous.
certainly expansive during tactical areas and specific zones

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by vandwagon » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:21 pm

They essentially hazed the kid to death. Just because it happened under the banner of the football team doesn't make it OK. As someone up-thread said, it's not like he had some acute issue, they saw the kid and saw he was struggling.

They should fire Durkin and whomever else was involved and limp through this season piecing together a staff the figure out next year when this season is over. If you feel like the best way to motivate kids is through humiliation and hazing you have no business being a coach.

This is awful and there's no way Durkin, the strength and conditioning coach and the medical staff should still be there. That's the minimum.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by bfj » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:01 pm

It took them almost an hour to call 911. Maybe they were hoping he could walk it off.
My nephew writes for the Diamondback (school paper) and he told me that there would be a lot of stuff coming out soon if they really start digging into the program.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:10 pm

bfj wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:01 pm
It took them almost an hour to call 911. Maybe they were hoping he could walk it off.
My nephew writes for the Diamondback (school paper) and he told me that there would be a lot of stuff coming out soon if they really start digging into the program.
I know it's not fair, but this has me questioning Harbaugh a bit. Durkin was on his first staff at Stanford before rejoined him at MI in 2015. Maybe this was always there but kept under wraps until he became a HC?
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:27 pm

Unfortunately I don't think Durkin is probably too far outside the mainstream as far as major college coaches go so in some respects it's probably just his bad luck that he had a kid die on his watch, but that doesn't excuse him and shouldn't save his job (or possible legal repercussions) and hopefully it serves as a wake up call to some of these coaches so that this kid didn't die in vain.

Also unfortunately ultimately I doubt it will. The real wake-up call should have been Korey Stringer and it's clear very little has changed since then. If a pro athlete can literally be worked to death, what's to stop college coaches from doing the same to athletes who are usually infinitely more "replaceable"?
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:10 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:10 pm
bfj wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:01 pm
It took them almost an hour to call 911. Maybe they were hoping he could walk it off.
My nephew writes for the Diamondback (school paper) and he told me that there would be a lot of stuff coming out soon if they really start digging into the program.
I know it's not fair, but this has me questioning Harbaugh a bit. Durkin was on his first staff at Stanford before rejoined him at MI in 2015. Maybe this was always there but kept under wraps until he became a HC?

And for full accuracy, he also spent time under Urban. And the S&C coach went to MSU.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:12 pm

brian wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:27 pm
Unfortunately I don't think Durkin is probably too far outside the mainstream as far as major college coaches go so in some respects it's probably just his bad luck that he had a kid die on his watch, but that doesn't excuse him and shouldn't save his job (or possible legal repercussions) and hopefully it serves as a wake up call to some of these coaches so that this kid didn't die in vain.

Also unfortunately ultimately I doubt it will. The real wake-up call should have been Korey Stringer and it's clear very little has changed since then. If a pro athlete can literally be worked to death, what's to stop college coaches from doing the same to athletes who are usually infinitely more "replaceable"?

We're talking about a sport where the most revered coach of all time took guys out into the Alabama heat to essentially induce heat stroke to see which of them could tough it out and make the team.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:16 pm

brian wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:27 pm
Unfortunately I don't think Durkin is probably too far outside the mainstream as far as major college coaches go so in some respects it's probably just his bad luck that he had a kid die on his watch, but that doesn't excuse him and shouldn't save his job (or possible legal repercussions) and hopefully it serves as a wake up call to some of these coaches so that this kid didn't die in vain.

Also unfortunately ultimately I doubt it will. The real wake-up call should have been Korey Stringer and it's clear very little has changed since then. If a pro athlete can literally be worked to death, what's to stop college coaches from doing the same to athletes who are usually infinitely more "replaceable"?
Didn;t the NFL cut back on practice time after Stringer's death?

And while it may be weak, pro players have a union. These 19 year olds have nothing.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by brian » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:23 pm

A lot of this is tied up into the same culture of toxic masculinity that makes day to day living in this country so unbearable sometimes, sure. We're talking about guys who for the most part have to cultivate an extreme alpha male personality to be able to do their jobs. It shouldn't be considered a sign of weakness to give 19-year-old kids a break during practice on a 95-degree day so they can get some water.

Yet I see some of the more dull-witted people that I went to high school with reminiscing about high school football practices in August heat where water was doled out as a reward as opposed to a right and they think this somehow makes them tougher as opposed to just luckier to be alive.
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by Rex » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:28 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm
They placed him on leave after an article was written. Didn't this guy die a while ago?
Article says May 29. It is INSANE that this wasn't a story earlier.
I don't know what's sadder: that a kid died and it wasn't a big story until people found out the coaches were dicks, or that the coaches were dicks and nobody knew about it until a kid died.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by DSafetyGuy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:10 pm
bfj wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:01 pm
It took them almost an hour to call 911. Maybe they were hoping he could walk it off.
My nephew writes for the Diamondback (school paper) and he told me that there would be a lot of stuff coming out soon if they really start digging into the program.
I know it's not fair, but this has me questioning Harbaugh a bit. Durkin was on his first staff at Stanford before rejoined him at MI in 2015. Maybe this was always there but kept under wraps until he became a HC?
Scott Shafer was on Harbaugh's staff with Durkin at Stanford, but stepped down for personal reasons less than four months after accepting the defensive coordinator position at Maryland after getting fired at Syracuse. Some of the fans up here are wondering if the mentality under Durkin was why he did so. (His family stayed up here because his daughter was going to be a senior and his son played football at Ithaca.)
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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by mister d » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:19 pm

If that’s why, that sucks because he probably feels more guilty today than any of the coaches who killed the kid.
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My people call that Kishka.

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Re: NCAA Football Meltdown Thread

Post by TT2.0 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:41 am

so when i first joined this board in 2003 (15 years a swamp!) i used to take outlandish extreme positions to stir things up...is HaulCitgo's posts the same level of insane as my stuff? If i ever sounded that ignorantly monsterously retarded, im sorry guys
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