The Swamp

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:49 pm**

Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 pm I remember me at Keene High School

That was before you started the PEDs, right?

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 pm**

Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 pm I remember me at Keene High School

And now you’re one of the most jacked mapmakers in all of New Hampshire. Although given your massive physical transformation and the known rampant PED usage among mapmakers in New Hampshire, it’s probably reasonable to wonder if you were among those who used.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:51 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:16 pm I mean, yes but ... we all think he did PEDs, right? Its bullshit certain guys are targeted and others aren't and the reasons are often bullshit, but we also agree the targets are almost universally "guilty"?

Yep. Is it really bullshit though?
The simplest way to ensure that your name never be falsely associated w/ steroid usage would’ve been to become an outspoken proponent for testing, and to sound alarms as to what was happening in the sport itself. Obviously that wasn’t going to happen. So he gets to enjoy as the suspicions swirl around his plaque in Cooperstown. Opportunity cost of doing business.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:53 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 pm
Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 pm I remember me at Keene High School
And now you’re one of the most jacked mapmakers in all of New Hampshire. Although given your massive physical transformation and the known rampant PED usage among mapmakers in New Hampshire, it’s probably reasonable to wonder if you were among those who used.

It's Lindt truffles

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:56 pm**

Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 pm
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:29 pm I remember bagwell with the sox. Maybe we should do a before and after pic analysis.
I’m calling bullshit on this. Bagwell didn’t play above AA in the Red Sox organization and I doubt you remember the physical appearance of guys on the 1990 New Britain Red Sox.

Bagwell must have been a big prospect. I am sure I am not the only one who remembers him. Back then the Sox we're the game in town despite the Celtics and we went to Pawtucket so not much interested in your doubts. Kid had a seated type swing right? Maybe I've got him mixed up but his name was known in about Boston around that time.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:58 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:14 pm**

Yeah. Definitely plantier with the seated swing. Dont even know how I would have known bagwell played for the sox though.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:19 pm**

Bagwell was absolutely a prospect, but he was a college 4th round 1B coming off a 4 HR season. I’m pretty sure his reasonable best case was like righty Mark Grace and not massive 40 HR dude.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 pm**

Rico Brogna led the Eastern League in HRs that year (Plantier led all the minors with 33)

ETA: (Juan Gonzalez was 2nd) (Hensley Meulens was 4th)

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:26 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:19 pm Bagwell was absolutely a prospect, but he was a college 4th round 1B coming off a 4 HR season. I’m pretty sure his reasonable best case was like righty Mark Grace and not massive 40 HR dude.

I wore a Mark Grace t-shirt first day of 8th grade.

I think it was this one:

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:32 pm**

Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 pm Rico Brogna led the Eastern League in HRs that year (Plantier led all the minors with 33)

ETA: (Juan Gonzalez was 2nd) (Hensley Meulens was 4th)

Sounds like, if anything, we should be suspicious of Juan Gonzalez carrying his rates over!

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:41 pm**

Makes me nostalgic for the old guys that called into the radio to discuss red sox lineups from 20 years prior.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:42 pm**

"Come to central CT in the next 15 minutes if you want an ass-kicking."

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:20 pm**

Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 pm Rico Brogna led the Eastern League in HRs that year (Plantier led all the minors with 33)

ETA: (Juan Gonzalez was 2nd) (Hensley Meulens was 4th)

Hensley Meulens is one of many odd names I watched in the unaffiliated Atlantic League in Atlantic City. Others include: Ruben Sierra (my all-time fave as a kid), Henry Rodriguez, Pete Rose Jr., post-public-shaming John Rocker, etc. (And I saw Swamp favorite Rusty Kuntz as a base coach.) It was a sad place to watch a baseball game.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:26 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:31 am I swear I've posted in here before about how "just hit it the other way" both isn't nearly as simple as people make it sound and not nearly as fun to watch.

I remember disagreeing with you several years ago about the shift, and I was shocked that we were on opposite sides on this issue. I still disagree with you, but not as strongly. (I'm not much of a baseball fan these days, so I don't feel too strongly about anything.)

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 pm**

I'm definitely in a minority here, especially among the stat-y types.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:03 pm**

bapo! wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:26 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:31 am I swear I've posted in here before about how "just hit it the other way" both isn't nearly as simple as people make it sound and not nearly as fun to watch.
I remember disagreeing with you several years ago about the shift, and I was shocked that we were on opposite sides on this issue. I still disagree with you, but not as strongly. (I'm not much of a baseball fan these days, so I don't feel too strongly about anything.)

I'm not sure if there are really strong arguments in favor of banning the shift. The argument that "there are fewer singles than ever in history!" is way overblown. The statement is factually correct, but the differences are so small in absolute terms that no fan would ever notice if he or she wasn't looking out for it. (In 2018, there were about 0.7 fewer singles per team per game than there were 20 years ago. Or 1.4 for both teams over the course of a game. That's a difference of one single for every two hours of baseball watched.)

On the other hand, most of the arguments *against* banning the shift are also pretty weak.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:17 pm**

I don't think singles is the right way to look at it, its "outs are up". I'll use 2001 since 20 years ago is a bit misleading with the 1999 to 2000 drop off, but the league slash went from .264/.332/.427 to .248/.318/.409 in 18 years. You're right its really only one per game or whatever, but (1) that does kinda add up and (2) its affecting gameplay. HRs are cool until the game because too HR-centric, then HRs themselves are less exciting and the gameplay in between the HRs is more boring because there are less hits. I don't know that I'd call it an immediate "risk", but its a bad trend and not something you can innovate your way out of.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:34 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:17 pm I don't think singles is the right way to look at it, its "outs are up". I'll use 2001 since 20 years ago is a bit misleading with the 1999 to 2000 drop off, but the league slash went from .264/.332/.427 to .248/.318/.409 in 18 years. You're right its really only one per game or whatever, but (1) that does kinda add up and (2) its affecting gameplay. HRs are cool until the game because too HR-centric, then HRs themselves are less exciting and the gameplay in between the HRs is more boring because there are less hits. I don't know that I'd call it an immediate "risk", but its a bad trend and not something you can innovate your way out of.

Sure. Plus, the really big difference is in strikeouts. There are 4 additional strikeouts per game now. That's still only one per 45 minutes (and only one extra per 90 minutes for your own team), but I think that is closer to noticeable.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:39 pm**

That too. And strikeouts often take time. Less balls into the field of play in general isn't good.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 pm**

Any early guesses on whether St. Louis fans will like the Goldschmidt trade and how he'll fit under the umbrella of The Cardinal Way(tm)?

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:56 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 pm Any early guesses on whether St. Louis fans will like the Goldschmidt trade and how he'll fit under the umbrella of The Cardinal Way(tm)?

Small sample size, but the Cards fans at the office here loved it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:01 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:56 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 pm Any early guesses on whether St. Louis fans will like the Goldschmidt trade and how he'll fit under the umbrella of The Cardinal Way(tm)?
Small sample size, but the Cards fans at the office here loved it.

Same. Kelly isn’t viewed as highly as he was a couple years ago and Weaver wasn’t very good last year.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:10 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:56 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 pm Any early guesses on whether St. Louis fans will like the Goldschmidt trade and how he'll fit under the umbrella of The Cardinal Way(tm)?
Small sample size, but the Cards fans at the office here loved it.

The Cub fan here at my office doesn't like it, not one bit.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:25 am**

Now that he plays in an actual baseball place, I might remember he's not left-handed.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:26 am**

I feel sorry for him to have to waste his career in St. Louis.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:36 am**

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:26 am I feel sorry for him to have to waste his career in St. Louis.

I think he's only got a year left on his contract? I dunno just seem to remember someone here saying that. Of course they think he's going to be indoctrinated into the Cardinal Way and fall in love with The Best Fans In Baseball™ and there's no way he won't re-sign, but I didn't have the heart to tell them that's all bullshit and he'll probably sign with whoever offers the most dough.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am**

He turns 33 at the end of the 1st year of his next contract. He's one of those sneaky older guys.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:43 am**

For anyone wondering, I'm a lot more mad about Corbin now than two days ago.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:52 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am He turns 33 at the end of the 1st year of his next contract. He's one of those sneaky older guys.

who will have a Matt Holliday-type late 30s career after signing a five-year deal to stay with the Cardinals

ETA: I typed that thinking Holliday was 38 and not 36 in his last year with the Cardinals. dang, he's only 38 now

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:03 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:43 am For anyone wondering, I'm a lot more mad about Corbin now than two days ago.

Trade Andujar for Kluber. Sign Machado.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:05 pm**

Kluber starts next season at 33. He's one of those sneaky older guys.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:41 pm**

Indians signed Carlos Carrasco to a contract extension through the 2022 season with a team option for the 2023 season. Will be paid $9.75M in 2019; $10.25M in 2020 and $12M each in 2021 and 2022. Team option is for $14M with a $3M buyout.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:50 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:03 pm
bapo! wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:26 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:31 am I swear I've posted in here before about how "just hit it the other way" both isn't nearly as simple as people make it sound and not nearly as fun to watch.
I remember disagreeing with you several years ago about the shift, and I was shocked that we were on opposite sides on this issue. I still disagree with you, but not as strongly. (I'm not much of a baseball fan these days, so I don't feel too strongly about anything.)
I'm not sure if there are really strong arguments in favor of banning the shift. The argument that "there are fewer singles than ever in history!" is way overblown. The statement is factually correct, but the differences are so small in absolute terms that no fan would ever notice if he or she wasn't looking out for it. (In 2018, there were about 0.7 fewer singles per team per game than there were 20 years ago. Or 1.4 for both teams over the course of a game. That's a difference of one single for every two hours of baseball watched.)

On the other hand, most of the arguments *against* banning the shift are also pretty weak.

I'm late to this discussion, but dammit I am firmly against any rules banning the shift. A team should have the right to position their fielders in the best fashion to stop the offense. If the offense suffers, it is incumbent on them to find a solution (yes, hit to the opposite field!)

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm**

Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:15 pm**

why don't players bunt more against the shift? maybe not all the time in the regular season but certainly in a key situation in the playoffs.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:16 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way

hmm there are no defense rules in hockey. There has been talk about disallowing leaving your feet to block shots.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:03 pm**

I'm for whatever gets butts into seats. I'm for whatever generates interest in the game.

While I'm not convinced there won't be more work to do beyond it, I do think eliminating the shift will make the game more fun to watch.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:35 pm**

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:16 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way
hmm there are no defense rules in hockey. There has been talk about disallowing leaving your feet to block shots.

Icing?

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:44 pm**

Icing, puck over the glass, covering the puck, doing away w/ the two line pass ...

The Swamp

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