The Swamp

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:45 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way

an NFL defense can assemble in whatever way it wants before the snap

eta: the hockey comparisons don't make sense to me at all. the shift is a predictive reaction before the play.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:54 pm**

Baseball isn't a run of play, ball turnover sport, so obviously the parallels obviously aren't perfect. The point is that rules are created or added to create better gameplay even if it thwarts intelligent strategy.

Defensive players in the NFL can't simulate the QBs signals, right? I'm sure the first person to do that was pretty effective.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:54 pm**

A similar hockey comparison might be changing the rules in hockey to be like field hockey (?) where players designated as defense cannot enter the offensive zone and players designated as offense cannot enter the defensive zone.

Of course, that would be dumb as shit, but so is telling MLB defenses where they can stand before the pitch.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:55 pm**

I spelled parallels wrong 3 different times in that post above.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:58 pm**

Standing 5 feet in front of the hitter and daring him to kill you is also a legal position. MLB would write a rule to stop if if someone decided to make it their strategy. Reasoning is different, but the absolute "teams can innovate but the rules can't react" concept is dumb to me.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:00 pm**

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:45 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way
an NFL defense can assemble in whatever way it wants before the snap

And if they started putting 11 guys up over the center all the time and the QB could only get a throw off 15 times a game, they would ban it in about 43 seconds.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:09 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:58 pm Standing 5 feet in front of the hitter and daring him to kill you is also a legal position. MLB would write a rule to stop if if someone decided to make it their strategy. Reasoning is different, but the absolute "teams can innovate but the rules can't react" concept is dumb to me.

That's a position in cricket. Short-leg. Stand 5 feet from the batter and catch with your barehands!

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:11 pm**

Another non-rule that would become a rule if exploited is unlimited foul balls. 12 pitch PAs are cool because 12 pitch PAs are rare. If that became a thing, they'd make it not a thing.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:13 pm**

I don't agree with the premise that the rules are sacrosanct and shouldn't ever be altered. I also don't agree with the premise that teams using technology/strategy to eliminate a single a game are dealing a death blow to Baseball As We Know It.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:14 pm**

Want an easy rule fix that will increase scoring, make the game more interesting and which we know already works? Get rid of letting fucking pitchers bat.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:20 pm**

Sure, the DH is an easy one and definitely should happen, but I disagree on it just being a single per PA. The shift plus pitchers throwing harder/shorter is fundamentally changing the entire approach to hitting.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:33 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:14 pm Want an easy rule fix that will increase scoring, make the game more interesting and which we know already works? Get rid of letting fucking pitchers bat.

Well, it'll increase scoring anyway.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:17 pm**

Yeah, but no rules regarding positioning. A rule against icing is more akin to a rule against balking.

Football defenses move however they want, same for basketball, hockey and soccer.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:31 pm**

THOSE ARE POSSESSION TURNOVER SPORTS THE COMP IS TO DISALLOWING STRATEGIES THAT SUPPRESS OFFENSE NOT "HEY WELL YOU DON'T SEE HOCKEY CARING IF TWO DEFENSEMEN SHADE TO ONE SIDE"!!!

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm**

Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:36 pm**

Red Sox about to sign Eovaldi 4 yrs/$67.5. I feel like this will either be a great signing or a terrible signing, but nothing in between. Could be a possible closer if he fizzles as a starter.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?

I’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:20 pm**

EdRomero wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:36 pmRed Sox about to sign Eovaldi 4 yrs/$67.5. I feel like this will either be a great signing or a terrible signing, but nothing in between. Could be a possible closer if he fizzles as a starter.

I think the range is "worked out" to Pavano (whom he looks a lot like). Eovaldi isn't an ace when healthy and he's getting full #2 freight there.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 pm**

On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?

even then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts

and FWIW I don't have a position on banning shifts. I just don't think it's comparable to anything at all

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:02 pm**

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 pm On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.

Absolutely. I didn't care one bit if Corbin was a $23MM per year or a $18MM per year because Corbin the pitcher is a big plus.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 pm**

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pmeven then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts

I mean ... its absolutely not. Its disallowing a defensive structure and in theory affects every possession.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:16 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pmeven then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts
I mean ... its absolutely not. Its disallowing a defensive structure and in theory affects every possession.

you misspelled it's twice in that post!

sure, but whoever is in the lane has to move there *during the possession*

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:31 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:13 pm I don't agree with the premise that the rules are sacrosanct and shouldn't ever be altered. I also don't agree with the premise that teams using technology/strategy to eliminate a single a game are dealing a death blow to Baseball As We Know It.

Launch angle became a thing to hit over the shift. Hitters are altering the fundamentals of their swings. And strikeouts have skyrocketed as a result, as have the other of the three true outcomes (walks, HRs).

It makes for a boring, uninteresting product.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:32 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 pm On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.
Absolutely. I didn't care one bit if Corbin was a $23MM per year or a $18MM per year because Corbin the pitcher is a big plus.

Yeah. But I'll draw the line at mortgaging the farm system before he leaves town. That team is built on young guys and he will definitely try to destroy that path for the next guy.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:41 pm**

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:16 pmyou misspelled it's twice in that post!

sure, but whoever is in the lane has to move there *during the possession*

Its so ingrained I don't bother anymore. My perpetual mulligan.

Tell me you believe changing the defensive 3 seconds rule would have the same effect on basketball defense as changing the plate blocking rule would have on baseball and I'll concede.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:50 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?

Ha ha. I guess this is like religion and politics. Rarely is a person persuaded by another's argument. (But I do enjoy your passion on the subject!)

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pmI’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.

Ehh... fuck off. (As you like to say.)

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:10 pm**

I am curious, because I'm going against my own kind here, how the framing of this debate would be different if the stat guys were anti-shift and the establishment were anti-rule.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:16 pm**

Personally I got no stat ax to grind either way so I didn’t know there was even a stat guy opinion.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:20 pm**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:50 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
Ha ha. I guess this is like religion and politics. Rarely is a person persuaded by another's argument. (But I do enjoy your passion on the subject!)

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pmI’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.
Ehh... fuck off. (As you like to say.)

Gotta add “kinda” to make it authentic.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:48 am**

Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:18 am**

Nice miserable start to the weekend.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:53 am**

Sabo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:48 am Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

Valbuena was a rare source of joy for Cubs fans during the dark days of 2012-14.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:39 pm**

Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:40 pm**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:17 pm Yeah, but no rules regarding positioning. A rule against icing is more akin to a rule against balking.

Football defenses move however they want, same for basketball, hockey and soccer.

Both of those sports are also over once 60 minutes have elapsed from the timer. For years in the NBA they didn't move however they wanted to. People never seem to recognize that Jordan spent an entire career going against one defender.

Also, hockey and basketball players can move however they want with the ball. So why do football players have to line up a certain way offensively?

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:44 pm**

Fuckin' Cardinals, btw.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:44 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:39 pm Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.

I didn't say a word to the guy other than "hey" when I sat down but once I saw his tag on his laptop bag it was torture not asking him how the Astros prospects are looking.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:55 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:44 pm
brian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:39 pm Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.
I didn't say a word to the guy other than "hey" when I sat down but once I saw his tag on his laptop bag it was torture not asking him how the Astros prospects are looking.

Heh.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:04 pm**

You could have made him dread the next however-many hours by just muttering "more like Gold-shit" under your breath as soon as you started to taxi.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:36 pm**

Sabo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:48 am Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

This story has taken a dark turn. Looks like the rock in the road was intentional.

https://sports.yahoo.com/four-people-ar ... 49482.html

The Swamp

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