Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

[mister d]

You're pretending like there isn't a massive amount of people who wouldn't want to identify as/with a racist but would find (taxes/abortion/immigration/"socialism"/etc/etc/etc) as more than enough of an offset to wave it off as "both suck" and vote Trump.

[brian]

Yeah, as scary as it is that there's more racists than we might have thought, you can't win a national election that way.

In a sense, the strategy makes some sense. He's really reaching out to votes in the Rust Belt (+MN, WI) with these appeals and giving them license to blame their issues (which are mostly economic-related) on immigrants. The only way Trump can win again is to win sweep Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin again. (I don't think Trump knows this beyond an instinctive level but the people doing his polls know it and if they thought this would hurt his chances in those places, they'd try to get him away from it.

It's a dangerous strategy though because a theoretical Trump presidency where he isn't an unhinged loon and acts mostly presidential while pursuing right-wing policies (like Bush 3.0) would put some states in play he could win without needing MI, PA or WI like Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia. As it stands, it's hard to imagine him winning in any of those five states unless things get really weird.

I don't think there's as many racists in those three states (MI, WI and PA) as Trump's people apparently seem to believe, but that's basically what this looks like it's going to come down to.

[L-Jam3]

I know I said this before, but after I vote first thing in the morning (if not early voting) I'm spending the rest of Election Day 2020 driving old black ladies in North Philly, West Philly, and Overbrook to the polls. Hopefully there will be other people doing the same in Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Akron, and Detroit doing the same.

[brian]

I know I said this before, but after I vote first thing in the morning (if not early voting) I'm spending the rest of Election Day 2020 driving old black ladies in North Philly, West Philly, and Overbrook to the polls. Hopefully there will be other people doing the same in Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Akron, and Detroit doing the same.

Yeah, I think the other bit of good news from 2016 is that the path to 270 is a lot more clear and there's going to be a lot of organizing around registering and getting folks to the polls in those cities and other ones like it. I'm planning on doing the same or something like it in Las Vegas.

ETA: My comment above aside, I'm not taking NV for granted, but Trump's message isn't really resonating here to the same degree I see it is in Michigan when I talk to people from back home or go back and visit. There are plenty of racists here of course, but if you don't want to live around Latinx people you've probably already moved from Las Vegas to Idaho or Montana.

[Joe K]

I would argue that 2016 proves that you can win a national election by running an overtly racist campaign. Trump kick started his primary campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and also made his Muslim ban proposal a central part of his campaign.

[brian]

The only thing we're debating is whether him winning that way is an anomaly or not. I don't think enough people took quite seriously the depths of his racism. That's not the case any longer. The Midwest states aren't going to be taken for granted this time around either, except for Ohio possibly since Ohio seems to be a lost cause. If I were the DNC I'd probably spend more time and effort in North Carolina than Ohio. You could almost argue the latter is more of a "southern state" than NC is at this point. Indiana certainly is.

[Nonlinear FC]

What brian said... And now I'm gonna head down another difficult/tricky path:

Going after immigrants is, unfortunately, a tried and true campaign tactic. It's not always at the forefront and certainly when economic times are good it hasn't historically been a winner. But when people are stressed out, politicians know the buttons to push and going after immigrants is a proven winner.

So, not to dismiss what he's done re: "Mexicans" and muslims, but a lot of every day Americans can't understand or wrap their head around why this approach is racist. "I'm not racist, I just want people to stop breaking the law!"

With this latest round, he's flying past those old tropes and going straight racist. Telling people to go back to their country (used to be more specifically go back to Africa, but now they have to broaden their racist scope) is old school racism and everyone who doesn't lie for a living on TV knows that's exactly the playbook Trump is pulling from.

And that's my point in all this. Going after The Squad, calling them un-American and telling them to get out if they don't like it.. You can't pivot off of that. Just like "there are fine people on both sides" is something that is forever hung around is neck, "go back to your country" is the new Flavor-Flav racist clock around his neck. (there are others, but you know them and I don't feel like typing anymore.)

[Johnnie]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Case in point, we (my gf, roommate, and I) were talking about this. It's completely batshit just on a superficial level to reach into such an obvious racist trope to gin up support. We all have jobs where discrimination is illegal and we'd be in huge trouble if we said words like this to someone.

My roommate goes "What kind of people act like this?" I say "Republicans." She half giggles. My gf says "Not all Republicans are like this. I know Republicans that hate this too." (Basically meaning her family and family friends.) I said "Hun, if your Republican friends are still voting for Trump after all of this, they are racist enablers. Full stop. Unless your friends are going to cross party lines on voting day, they are trash just like him." She went into silent mode. The subject changed, but I simply don't care to believe a single Republican is a good person at all. I tolerate them.

[Joe K]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Even the very small number of Republicans who have criticized Trump will change their tune in a hurry come General Election time, particularly if the nominee is a progressive. We’ll hear an awful lot of, “I really wanted to vote Democratic, but Elizabeth Warren is just too extreme.” As if universal healthcare and a $15/hr minimum wage is on par with Trump’s overt racism and xenophobia.

[mister d]

Its not on par, its worse, because their taxes might go up $1,400.

[Pruitt]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Case in point, we (my gf, roommate, and I) were talking about this. It's completely batshit just on a superficial level to reach into such an obvious racist trope to gin up support. We all have jobs where discrimination is illegal and we'd be in huge trouble if we said words like this to someone.

My roommate goes "What kind of people act like this?" I say "Republicans." She half giggles. My gf says "Not all Republicans are like this. I know Republicans that hate this too." (Basically meaning her family and family friends.) I said "Hun, if your Republican friends are still voting for Trump after all of this, they are racist enablers. Full stop. Unless your friends are going to cross party lines on voting day, they are trash just like him." She went into silent mode. The subject changed, but I simply don't care to believe a single Republican is a good person at all. I tolerate them.

Nixon's "Silent Majority."

[mister d]

Everything summed up in one tweet.

[mister d]

(One being the second one, with the McCarthy quotes.)

[Johnnie]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Even the very small number of Republicans who have criticized Trump will change their tune in a hurry come General Election time, particularly if the nominee is a progressive. We’ll hear an awful lot of, “I really wanted to vote Democratic, but Elizabeth Warren is just too extreme.” As if universal healthcare and a $15/hr minimum wage is on par with Trump’s overt racism and xenophobia.

And as a guy who's day job is being a replaceable cog in propping up the Military Industrial Complex and American Imperialism in general, my number one question to those types -- in private conversation -- is "So you think a good portion of your tax dollars is well spent on making sure we're in the middle east for the rest of eternity, but making sure people can afford to leave in the least way possible is bullshit?" I hate these types. They're usually just well off white people who think they are good people.

[The Sybian]

Case in point, we (my gf, roommate, and I) were talking about this. It's completely batshit just on a superficial level to reach into such an obvious racist trope to gin up support. We all have jobs where discrimination is illegal and we'd be in huge trouble if we said words like this to someone.

This is what drives me nuts. On almost a daily basis, Trump does or says something that would get any other government employee fired on the spot, yet his supporters cry about how unfair it is that he gets criticized so much. I'm overly sensitive to this, as I had to make ethics determinations when I worked in the government, most often determining if outside activities "created a perception of impropriety." Anything that may have a value of $20, including meals provided at a free seminar, was strictly off limits, yet this asshole brags about doubling membership fees at Mar-a-lago because he gives members access to influence him. Or sell rooms and book parties at his hotel for foreign governments, often over normal rates and in some cases, they pay for rooms and don't even use them. Just pure bribes. I can't believe he got away with never divulging his business interests or releasing his taxes. Letting that shit slide early in the Primaries was the biggest mistake. Back when the GOP was working to stop Trump, they could have held him accountable then, and shut this shitshow down. Fuck them, and fuck the media for portraying this as a reasonable ethics debate instead of clear bribery and a Constitutional violation of the emoluments clause.

[The Sybian]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Even the very small number of Republicans who have criticized Trump will change their tune in a hurry come General Election time, particularly if the nominee is a progressive. We’ll hear an awful lot of, “I really wanted to vote Democratic, but Elizabeth Warren is just too extreme.” As if universal healthcare and a $15/hr minimum wage is on par with Trump’s overt racism and xenophobia.

Even worse, if the Dems put up a Center-Right candidate like Biden to prevent this, the Republicans will still say he is a far-Left extremist who must be stopped before we turn into Venezuela.

[brian]

There are too many comfortable, moderate white people that simply don't give a fuck. The racist can win again. And since he isn't being checked in any capacity by members in his party, they are tacit endorsers of this in the name of power. I don't care "how poor" the strategy is, after going from Obama to Trump, I trust nothing.

Even the very small number of Republicans who have criticized Trump will change their tune in a hurry come General Election time, particularly if the nominee is a progressive. We’ll hear an awful lot of, “I really wanted to vote Democratic, but Elizabeth Warren is just too extreme.” As if universal healthcare and a $15/hr minimum wage is on par with Trump’s overt racism and xenophobia.

Even worse, if the Dems put up a Center-Right candidate like Biden to prevent this, the Republicans will still say he is a far-Left extremist who must be stopped before we turn into Venezuela.

Yeah, this is correct. Hell, the Dems could nominate Amash and the Republicans would insist he's been a Communist in hiding all his life. It doesn't matter. The playbook is the same, so might as well nominate a candidate who will fight for progressive principles. Frankly the GOP has cried wolf on "socialism" for so long I'm not sure it's really effective even if the Democrats nominated an actual socialist like Sanders at this point. That's how little most people in the middle believe that bullshit.

[Johnnie]

And add this to the pile.

[DaveInSeattle]

So....what happens at Trump's next Hitler Youth/ReElection Rally, when the rubes in the crowd start chanting 'Send Her Back' again? Because you KNOW that's gonna happen.

[Johnnie]

He's going to compliment them and brag about the crowd size, duh.

“Incredible patriots” is the new “very fine people”: Trump defends racist chants

[Pruitt]

He's going to compliment them and brag about the crowd size, duh.

“Incredible patriots” is the new “very fine people”: Trump defends racist chants

And of course talk about how they are the downtrodden ones.

[Johnnie]

[Johnnie]

[sancarlos]

[Johnnie]

Whoa...

[Johnnie]

I'm expecting nothing from Mueller today except to be let down.

[Johnnie]

Umm, Mueller is coming off as ooollllldddddd.

[mister d]

Its so weird the Republican almost 9 years past retirement age who has explicitly passed on anything resembling a decisive stance isn't our savior. Ah well we'll get him next time.

[Joe K]

Umm, Mueller is coming off as ooollllldddddd.

For high profile investigations, it’s not uncommon to make an older, highly respected figure the face of the investigation while others do the important work behind the scenes. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened here and Mueller just doesn’t have the in-depth knowledge of the investigation that some of the other attorneys on his team would have if they testified. The House should have called Andrew Weissman if they wanted any interesting testimony.

[Nonlinear FC]

This is all just theater guys. Both sides sticking to their talking points. Barely watching.

[Johnnie]

Umm, Mueller is coming off as ooollllldddddd.

For high profile investigations, it’s not uncommon to make an older, highly respected figure the face of the investigation while others do the important work behind the scenes. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened here and Mueller just doesn’t have the in-depth knowledge of the investigation that some of the other attorneys on his team would have if they testified. The House should have called Andrew Weissman if they wanted any interesting testimony.

And basically that's what the Republicans are going to harp on.

You weren't present for every part of this investigation, were you? So how can we trust that your secret Hillary Clinton supporting agents weren't conducting deep state investigations into this innocent president?

[Johnnie]

This is all just theater guys. Both sides sticking to their talking points. Barely watching.

I just want someone to ask:

How can you trust the attorney general when he wrote a longer screed talking about how this investigation was illegal than he did correctly summarizing your report?

When the president constantly tweets insane gibberish, like he did this morning, how does that affect your team?

And then other questions flattening the gross logic that since he wasn't fired there was no intent to have you fired.

[mister d]

I like the way this is phrased:

[Joe K]

In guessing that Mueller is going with the “report speaks for itself” answer because he didn’t write it, doesn’t have all its details at hand, and doesn’t want to risk giving testimony inconsistent with it. Details like this seem consistent with my suspicion that Mueller had limited day-to-day involvement with the investigation:

[Johnnie]

He just wouldn't say the fucking word, would he?

[Johnnie]

This is a fun chain of responses to read:

[DSafetyGuy]

My favorite:

[mister d]

That's the kind of quote where you just want to scream "FUCK!" for about 30 seconds or until running out of air. How exactly does she think every fucking idiot on the right perpetually gets on the same message even when that message is both counter-factual and counter-logical? If its not her job to or inside her power to shape discussion, doesn't she atleast feel a responsibility to steer discussion into a place of reason? Not that it matters because what she said is bullshit anyway given that she opines and adds frivolities all the fucking time.

[Johnnie]

Maga Haberman. Such an asshole.

[Nonlinear FC]

So, the afternoon session was MUCH better. A lot more focused and I think they learned from the morning how to work with Meuller's style a bit better.