Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

[duff]

Can I bet on later finding out the pharmaceutical lobby was involved?

And the liquor/beer/alcohol lobby.

And don't forget the cotton industry.

And the paper/pulp industry.

[DaveInSeattle]

re: Mueller/Barr/Russia...

I can't believe those lucky motherfuckers are going to get away with it.

I guess when you are obstructing justice, the best idea is to sit down with Lester Holt and proudly announce that you've done just that.

And now McConnell is going to bury the Mueller report. There's no way, short of a Pentagon Papers type of situation, that its going to see the light of day.

The only thing that is giving me hope is that the asshole is too moronic to take advantage of a golden situation. By middle of next week he will have done something even more insane that will overshadow this.

[The Sybian]

re: Mueller/Barr/Russia...

I can't believe those lucky motherfuckers are going to get away with it.

I guess when you are obstructing justice, the best idea is to sit down with Lester Holt and proudly announce that you've done just that.

And now McConnell is going to bury the Mueller report. There's no way, short of a Pentagon Papers type of situation, that its going to see the light of day.

The only thing that is giving me hope is that the asshole is too moronic to take advantage of a golden situation. By middle of next week he will have done something even more insane that will overshadow this.

I think he has taken the moronic approach by going full dictator and using the report to attack all Dems and the media, "proving" they are all liars out to destroy democracy by unfairly attacking him. The WH sent letters to all media outlets with a list of people they want banned from speaking on the air. The list includes everyone who spoke ill of the dictator. He is also making threats against Dems and media members who want to hold him accountable, treating oversight as a treasonous coup attempt.

I read a great article making a case that the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot if they continue to hard press the House investigations. It will look like partisan hackery to independants, and will likely turn up nothing that moves the needle. If someone isn't convinced Trump is a corrupt POS by now, no campaign finance hearing or emoluments clause lawsuit is going to sway them. I think the best approach is to let the SDNY and NY AG go after his kids and Kushner. Yes, the Dems need oversight and to ensure Congress keeps the President in check, but I think they need to do that without resorting to constant media attacks on Trump. Do the shit quietly, and if you get a smoking gun, exploit it, but if not, it will look like petty partisan attacks, even to independants.

The Dems should have put less media focus on the Trump aspect of Mueller's investigation. Nobody on either side brings up that the investigation was focused on determining how Russia interfered with our election. If Dems focused on "Russian military groups illegally hacked into voter data systems, possibly our election computers and pulled of massive misinformation plots. We want to find out what happened and how to prevent it from happening again, but Republicans want to block efforts. Why? Either Trump or the GOP is guilty and they want to hide that, or they want Russia swaying our elections." FFS, the GOP tried to stop investigations into Russia possibly altering votes, and 100% driving the political discourse with targeted misinformation. The GOP turned that into "a witch hunt" that proved Trump is an innocent victim, and the Dems lost the easy win of saying they just want to know what happened and how to ensure Russia doesn't continue to interfere with our elections, and if it happens to go to the top, we will find out, but they had to use the focus on getting Trump and attacking him for two years, and ended up getting nothing. Sure, Flynn is convicted and Manafort is locked up, and Cohen is about to go away, but the GOP still walked away with the narrative there, because they were all convicted of "process crimes," and not related to their work with Trump, they were unfairly victimized because they worked for Trump, and Dems are so petty, they are putting good men in prison through perjury traps. The Dems are the fascists locking up political enemies, while Trump and his followers chant Lock Her Up at his rallies.

Now Lindsey Graham is asking for a Special Counsel to investigate Hillary's emails, and FoxNews is running constant segments on how Obama was the most corrupt President since Nixon, and Hillary's emails and Benghazi!

The one odd thing I've noticed, my pro-Trump Twitter feed is shockingly silent. Just 2 posts from the same guy, and not nearly the gloating I'd expect, just a picture of a red hat saying Mueller Ain't Got Anything, and a cartoon of Mueller as a fancy waiter, lifting the lid off a silver tray with an empty burger bun. Again, the narrative is that the Russia investigation was a colossal waste of time and money as a political attack, not legit investigation into the 100%, no doubt it happened, Russian interference in our election.

[L-Jam3]

One of the many systemic advantage that the GOP has is that they are completely amoral craven motherfuckers. Nothing is too low for them to go, and they will then blame the Democrats for it. They will go full WIllie Horton with attack ads. It's like an MLB team trying to win a title in the late 90s/early 00s and insisting on no steroid guys. The GOP goes full Bonds, then turns around and blames... I don't know, imaginary straw man team that didn't have any juicers.

It's too bad the Dems don't have someone who is completely devoid of morals like McConnell. There is so much here that they can attack the GOP just in the last two years. In my head I've been playing attack ads.

In the first one, they can show clips of little kids in the cages at the border. Video of crying babies. Tear gas being thrown at that woman. Wails and tears. Cut to black with the words "THEIR RESPONSE?" Audio of Trump talking about shithole countries. The screen fades black, and then the tagline: THE REPUBLICANS.

In the next one, use clips from Charlottesville. The marching. The extended arms. "Jews will not replace us". Then the video of the car smashing into people. Cut to black with the words "THEIR RESPONSE?". Cut to Trump saying "very fine people". The screen fades to black with the tagline: THE REPUBLICANS.

In the third, use clips of the suffering from Hurricane Maria. Video of destroyed houses with the graphic of the number of destroyed houses. More video of suffering with the number of days without power. Video of crying woman with the graphic on the closest number of dead of 6,000. Cut to black "THEIR RESPONSE?". Cut to Trump shooting foul shots with the paper towels. Fade to black. THE REPUBLICANS

In the fourth, use clips of the Joshua Tree pulled over. Empty halls of Congress. Overflowing trash at the National Mall with landmarks in the background. THEIR RESPONSE? Cut to Trump saying he'll take the mantle of the shutdown. Fade to black. THE REPUBLICANS

[L-Jam3]

I think the main thing is that the Dems need to put the GOP on the defensive for a change. Is there a Democrat version of Roger Stone? Because for the sake of the soul of this country, the ends would justify the means of using a guy like him.

[Joe K]

This is a great column:



I think Manjoo nails it here:

Here’s my theory: Collusion was a seductive and convenient delusion. For many Americans, the simple truth that Mr. Trump really had won was too terrible to bear. The ease with which a racist, misogynist, serial con man had slipped past every gatekeeper in American life suggested something deeply sick at the core of our society.

In particular, Mr. Trump’s win pointed to tectonic failures within the mainstream news media, whose leading brands had fanned the showman’s rise with copious television coverage; indulged his every gimmick with yet more attention; and elevated his opponent’s trifling email-management kerfuffle into a scandal of world-historic import.

Mr. Trump’s win also pointed to the failure of our political parties. After years of playing footsie with extremists, the Republicans created an environment in which a racist demagogue could swallow them whole.

Democrats, meanwhile, dismissed the economic and social unease roiling their ranks and nominated a deeply unpopular candidate who lacked any novel vision for American life. And then she forgot to campaign in Michigan...

It’s true that we have begun, belatedly, to shine a spotlight on many of these deep-rooted problems. But the Mueller investigation sucked up all the political energy. For many in the political and media establishment, the possibility of collusion offered moral expiation for collective complicity. Rather than begin the hard work of addressing what had actually gone wrong, many of us were swept up in social-media-fueled feedback loops looking for an instant fix: The orgiastic pee tape would turn up and clear up the whole funny misunderstanding.

From here, the story of 2016 looks rather straightforward: Mr. Trump was the corrupt, misbegotten choice of a citizenry mired in partisan mistrust, seething with racial grievance, informed by a beleaguered and fracturing news media, and laboring under an economic and political system that had long ceased functioning for all but the wealthiest of its citizens.

[degenerasian]

JoeK: I think the article above is reaching a bit. It's not like Trump came in and blew up everything.

Conservatives are still conservatives and it didn't matter who the GOP candidate was. Did Trump stoke a few more fires? Perhaps.

But conservatives always feel threatened, that's what makes them conservative. It easy to scare them by saying the 'Libs' are taking things too far.
They're coming to take your money, language, religion, culture, babies, country.

until they "Run out of other people's money"

I personally don't think the Mueller report took away from anything. Many things can happen at once and the Democratic party is looking into everything, as they should.

I do blame CNN, they make so much money off of Trump that they hope he wins in 2020. They will still give Trump all the coverage in the 2020 election while tearing down each Democratic candidate until there are none left.

[EnochRoot]

JoeK: I think the article above is reaching a bit. It's not like Trump came in and blew up everything.

Conservatives are still conservatives and it didn't matter who the GOP candidate was. Did Trump stoke a few more fires? Perhaps.

But conservatives always feel threatened, that's what makes them conservative. It easy to scare them by saying the 'Libs' are taking things too far.
They're coming to take your money, language, religion, culture, babies, country.

until they "Run out of other people's money"

I personally don't think the Mueller report took away from anything. Many things can happen at once and the Democratic party is looking into everything, as they should.

I do blame CNN, they make so much money off of Trump that they hope he wins in 2020. They will still give Trump all the coverage in the 2020 election while tearing down each Democratic candidate until there are none left.

Yeah I agree with a lot of the micro in his piece, but get the fuck out of here with that macro, "Democrats must always be the adults in the room" message.

[Johnnie]

I totally understand why my history teacher said "Everyone either loved FDR or hated him immensely." He must have had a "fuck you" edge about him and felt like he could break rules and established norms (like staying more than 2 terms).

It's like somewhere along the line Democrats caught some serious backlash for how he was and swung the other way to be more palatable. They need to regain that "fuck you" edge.

[L-Jam3]

It's like somewhere along the line Democrats caught some serious backlash for how he was and swung the other way to be more palatable. They need to regain that "fuck you" edge.

Yes. This is what I'm saying. Playing nice got an idiot conman and crook elected president.

[Pruitt]

It's like somewhere along the line Democrats caught some serious backlash for how he was and swung the other way to be more palatable. They need to regain that "fuck you" edge.

Yes. This is what I'm saying. Playing nice got an idiot conman and crook elected president.

Do you think the backlash to Hillary's "Basket of deplorables" comment stung them this badly?

[Johnnie]

In my opinion, Hillary didn't go far enough. But she's also the wrong person to say anything because of who she is.

If there was a way to be able to strike the fear of God into the Trump crime family by being subtle and cunning, that seems far better.

I'd make a bad politician because of many reasons. But my blunt honestly would be worst.

[degenerasian]

JoeK: I think the article above is reaching a bit. It's not like Trump came in and blew up everything.

Conservatives are still conservatives and it didn't matter who the GOP candidate was. Did Trump stoke a few more fires? Perhaps.

But conservatives always feel threatened, that's what makes them conservative. It easy to scare them by saying the 'Libs' are taking things too far.
They're coming to take your money, language, religion, culture, babies, country.

until they "Run out of other people's money"

I personally don't think the Mueller report took away from anything. Many things can happen at once and the Democratic party is looking into everything, as they should.

I do blame CNN, they make so much money off of Trump that they hope he wins in 2020. They will still give Trump all the coverage in the 2020 election while tearing down each Democratic candidate until there are none left.

Yeah I agree with a lot of the micro in his piece, but get the fuck out of here with that macro, "Democrats must always be the adults in the room" message.

a bit off topic but you guys would love the ads that the NDP are running here in the Alberta Election.
They are the progressive, left-leaning party and they are pulling no punches.

https://twitter.com/albertaNDP

https://globalnews.ca/news/5081715/new- ... paign-ads/

[brian]

So much winning.

[rass]

That can’t possibly be as bad that sounds, right? Gonna read up...

[rass]

It’s ok. Rich people will make up the difference!

[EnochRoot]

They do shit like this in order to narrow the focus of the common man. Period.

[degenerasian]

the do outrageous things and then yell at the libs for calling them outrageous.

[The Sybian]

the do outrageous things and then yell at the libs for calling them outrageous.

And then call the Liberals dangerously radicalized for trying to pass basic human rights that every developed country in the world excet for the US already have. Or returning tax rates to historically normal levels.

[Pruitt]

the do outrageous things and then yell at the libs for calling them outrageous.

And then call the Liberals dangerously radicalized for trying to pass basic human rights that every developed country in the world excet for the US already have. Or returning tax rates to historically normal levels.

While marginalizing those who need society's help.

It would surprise me only a little is these people started painting those with disabilities as enemies of the state. They are probably a third of the way towards embracing eugenics.

[Giff]

I wouldn't be embarrassed at all if I ran a victory lap after the Barr Summary was released. YAY, I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG AND THIS GUY GETS TO STAY IN OFFICE LONGER, SUCK IT GUYS!!!

[Nonlinear FC]

Let's just get this thing over with... It's not going to have a smoking gun, Fox and the President will say "no collusion" for months and we can just let that shit play out and move on.

Well, I did not predict Barr was going to completely subvert the process like this. And I am not going to go back and read the last 3 days of this thread (I was sick and didn't have any desire), but anyone that takes that letter at face value... That's fucking ridiculous.

You have an AG that pretty much auditioned for the job with opeds stating how shitty the Mueller investigation boiling down a 22 month investigation into a 4 page letter after about 48 hours of review.

Fuck.That.Shit.

I can't believe how gullible the media and a huge chunk of this country is.

The AG is not an impartial, objective source to be relied upon as the final word on any of this.

[Joe K]

Let's just get this thing over with... It's not going to have a smoking gun, Fox and the President will say "no collusion" for months and we can just let that shit play out and move on.

Well, I did not predict Barr was going to completely subvert the process like this. And I am not going to go back and read the last 3 days of this thread (I was sick and didn't have any desire), but anyone that takes that letter at face value... That's fucking ridiculous.

You have an AG that pretty much auditioned for the job with opeds stating how shitty the Mueller investigation boiling down a 22 month investigation into a 4 page letter after about 48 hours of review.

Fuck.That.Shit.

I can't believe how gullible the media and a huge chunk of this country is.

The AG is not an impartial, objective source to be relied upon as the final word on any of this.

I’ve seen this view a lot and once again, I disagree. Do you guys really think Mueller and his entire team of prosecutors would just stay quiet if Barr misrepresented their findings?

[Johnnie]

Isn't Barr the GOP's cover up guy? That's why he was appointed.

If only the Democrats could muster up the indignation and call bullshit bullshit. And then maybe, just maybe go after these garbage humans when they aren't in power, it would be nice.

We need more AOCs. But those dadgum establishment Democrats don't get dirty and need to play both sides.

[The Sybian]

I’ve seen this view a lot and once again, I disagree. Do you guys really think Mueller and his entire team of prosecutors would just stay quiet if Barr misrepresented their findings?

Yes. Mueller viewed his role as submitting to the AG, and letting the AG decide how to handle it. That's what I am hearing from the pundits I trust most, who are predominantly former US Attorneys, many who worked with Mueller. If Congress gets the entire document, which is looking less likely, I think it will make a case for obstruction, and provide details of Trump's personal and business finances that could lead to future prosecution. It sounds like Mueller left it up to Barr to decide how to handle the obstruction, and Barr is going to obstruct justice by hiding the evidence from Congress and not acting on the evidence himself.

My understanding is Mueller likely could show probable cause of crimes, which would be enough to indict in a normal case, but he would not make a recommendation of indictment unless he could meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard for a criminal conviction, and without Trump speaking to Mueller, that wasn't going to happen. There is more than enough evidence from public comments from Trump, Jr. and others to meet the probable cause standard. Jr.'s "I love it" email, Trump telling Lester Holt he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing," Jr. saying the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians was about adoptions, and then Trump later admitting he helped draft Jr.'s statement...All of this shit out in public comments, but if it were uncovered in an email or recording, it'd be a major scandal.

[degenerasian]

Isn't Barr the GOP's cover up guy? That's why he was appointed.

If only the Democrats could muster up the indignation and call bullshit bullshit. And then maybe, just maybe go after these garbage humans when they aren't in power, it would be nice.

We need more AOCs. But those dadgum establishment Democrats don't get dirty and need to play both sides.

they get money from both sides.

[Giff]

I never thought some progressives would be shitting themselves to tell people "I told you so" after reading a four-page report that says the worst president in our lifetime would not indicted for collusion with Russia, so I don't know anything these days.

[Joe K]

I’ve seen this view a lot and once again, I disagree. Do you guys really think Mueller and his entire team of prosecutors would just stay quiet if Barr misrepresented their findings?

Yes. Mueller viewed his role as submitting to the AG, and letting the AG decide how to handle it. That's what I am hearing from the pundits I trust most, who are predominantly former US Attorneys, many who worked with Mueller. If Congress gets the entire document, which is looking less likely, I think it will make a case for obstruction, and provide details of Trump's personal and business finances that could lead to future prosecution. It sounds like Mueller left it up to Barr to decide how to handle the obstruction, and Barr is going to obstruct justice by hiding the evidence from Congress and not acting on the evidence himself.

My understanding is Mueller likely could show probable cause of crimes, which would be enough to indict in a normal case, but he would not make a recommendation of indictment unless he could meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard for a criminal conviction, and without Trump speaking to Mueller, that wasn't going to happen. There is more than enough evidence from public comments from Trump, Jr. and others to meet the probable cause standard. Jr.'s "I love it" email, Trump telling Lester Holt he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing," Jr. saying the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians was about adoptions, and then Trump later admitting he helped draft Jr.'s statement...All of this shit out in public comments, but if it were uncovered in an email or recording, it'd be a major scandal.

It’s one thing to say that Mueller viewed his role as presenting the information to the AG. It’s another to say that he would keep quiet even if the AG misrepresented his work. I mean, this was arguably the most important task of Mueller’s long and distinguished career as a public servant. I think it’s incredibly unlikely he’d be fine with his conclusions getting distorted. Moreover, it’s not just Mueller. He worked with almost 20 other accomplished prosecutors. If Barr’s letter pulled a fast one, why haven’t a single one of them said anything?

[The Sybian]

I never thought some progressives would be shitting themselves to tell people "I told you so" after reading a four-page report that says the worst president in our lifetime would not indicted for collusion with Russia, so I don't know anything these days.

Not sure if you are including me in this comment, but I'm certainly not gloating. I was cautiously optimistic that some indictments would come out of Mueller, not Trump, but I was hoping Kushner, Junior and others. I am completely nauseous over this, and I have been avoiding the news about the topic because it's too frustrating and scary, because the despicable POS in the White House now feels emboldened that he is above the law and can openly attack anyone who says anything mean about him, and too many morons believe he was exonerated and the entire investigation was a hoax. I knew this was a possible worst case scenario, and in retrospect, was probably the likely outcome from the start.

I do think Barr's memo is likely not an accurate reflection of the full report, and I will be furious if Congress doesn't get to see the full report, and I do think we need to start taking action before we end up in a dictatorship.

[The Sybian]

I’ve seen this view a lot and once again, I disagree. Do you guys really think Mueller and his entire team of prosecutors would just stay quiet if Barr misrepresented their findings?

Yes. Mueller viewed his role as submitting to the AG, and letting the AG decide how to handle it. That's what I am hearing from the pundits I trust most, who are predominantly former US Attorneys, many who worked with Mueller. If Congress gets the entire document, which is looking less likely, I think it will make a case for obstruction, and provide details of Trump's personal and business finances that could lead to future prosecution. It sounds like Mueller left it up to Barr to decide how to handle the obstruction, and Barr is going to obstruct justice by hiding the evidence from Congress and not acting on the evidence himself.

My understanding is Mueller likely could show probable cause of crimes, which would be enough to indict in a normal case, but he would not make a recommendation of indictment unless he could meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard for a criminal conviction, and without Trump speaking to Mueller, that wasn't going to happen. There is more than enough evidence from public comments from Trump, Jr. and others to meet the probable cause standard. Jr.'s "I love it" email, Trump telling Lester Holt he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing," Jr. saying the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians was about adoptions, and then Trump later admitting he helped draft Jr.'s statement...All of this shit out in public comments, but if it were uncovered in an email or recording, it'd be a major scandal.

It’s one thing to say that Mueller viewed his role as presenting the information to the AG. It’s another to say that he would keep quiet even if the AG misrepresented his work. I mean, this was arguably the most important task of Mueller’s long and distinguished career as a public servant. I think it’s incredibly unlikely he’d be fine with his conclusions getting distorted. Moreover, it’s not just Mueller. He worked with almost 20 other accomplished prosecutors. If Barr’s letter pulled a fast one, why haven’t a single one of them said anything?

From what Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell have been saying, Mueller can't speak out, which is why Congress is going to subpoena him to discuss the report. They are saying they will subpoena Barr as well, which of course leaves Trump and the GOP to make the easy argument that the Dems are whiners who can't stand losing, and only want to destroy Trump, not do their jobs. The shit just keeps getting worse.

[Joe K]

I never thought some progressives would be shitting themselves to tell people "I told you so" after reading a four-page report that says the worst president in our lifetime would not indicted for collusion with Russia, so I don't know anything these days.

Not sure if you are including me in this comment, but I'm certainly not gloating. I was cautiously optimistic that some indictments would come out of Mueller, not Trump, but I was hoping Kushner, Junior and others. I am completely nauseous over this, and I have been avoiding the news about the topic because it's too frustrating and scary, because the despicable POS in the White House now feels emboldened that he is above the law and can openly attack anyone who says anything mean about him, and too many morons believe he was exonerated and the entire investigation was a hoax. I knew this was a possible worst case scenario, and in retrospect, was probably the likely outcome from the start.

I do think Barr's memo is likely not an accurate reflection of the full report, and I will be furious if Congress doesn't get to see the full report, and I do think we need to start taking action before we end up in a dictatorship.

Giff wasn’t referring to you. He’s upset that I had the audacity to say “I told you so” after he spent 2+ years mocking me when I expressed skepticism about Russiagate. Had his posts merely been in the vein of “I hope you’re wrong” I’d let it go. But they weren’t. So I have no qualms about responding the way I did.

[brian]

21 months (or so) until I move to Thailand.

[Giff]

I never thought some progressives would be shitting themselves to tell people "I told you so" after reading a four-page report that says the worst president in our lifetime would not indicted for collusion with Russia, so I don't know anything these days.

Not sure if you are including me in this comment, but I'm certainly not gloating. I was cautiously optimistic that some indictments would come out of Mueller, not Trump, but I was hoping Kushner, Junior and others. I am completely nauseous over this, and I have been avoiding the news about the topic because it's too frustrating and scary, because the despicable POS in the White House now feels emboldened that he is above the law and can openly attack anyone who says anything mean about him, and too many morons believe he was exonerated and the entire investigation was a hoax. I knew this was a possible worst case scenario, and in retrospect, was probably the likely outcome from the start.

I do think Barr's memo is likely not an accurate reflection of the full report, and I will be furious if Congress doesn't get to see the full report, and I do think we need to start taking action before we end up in a dictatorship.

Giff wasn’t referring to you. He’s upset that I had the audacity to say “I told you so” after he spent 2+ years mocking me when I expressed skepticism about Russiagate. Had his posts merely been in the vein of “I hope you’re wrong” I’d let it go. But they weren’t. So I have no qualms about responding the way I did.

Correct.

[mister d]

This wasn't what sank him.

[Giff]

This wasn't what sank him.

He won't be sunk. But at least Joe K and Glenn Greenwald and their ilk got a good laugh out of all this!

[The Sybian]

I never thought some progressives would be shitting themselves to tell people "I told you so" after reading a four-page report that says the worst president in our lifetime would not indicted for collusion with Russia, so I don't know anything these days.

Not sure if you are including me in this comment, but I'm certainly not gloating. I was cautiously optimistic that some indictments would come out of Mueller, not Trump, but I was hoping Kushner, Junior and others. I am completely nauseous over this, and I have been avoiding the news about the topic because it's too frustrating and scary, because the despicable POS in the White House now feels emboldened that he is above the law and can openly attack anyone who says anything mean about him, and too many morons believe he was exonerated and the entire investigation was a hoax. I knew this was a possible worst case scenario, and in retrospect, was probably the likely outcome from the start.

I do think Barr's memo is likely not an accurate reflection of the full report, and I will be furious if Congress doesn't get to see the full report, and I do think we need to start taking action before we end up in a dictatorship.

Giff wasn’t referring to you. He’s upset that I had the audacity to say “I told you so” after he spent 2+ years mocking me when I expressed skepticism about Russiagate. Had his posts merely been in the vein of “I hope you’re wrong” I’d let it go. But they weren’t. So I have no qualms about responding the way I did.

Just out of curiosity, but do you think Trump is innocent of, well everything, or just that Mueller didn't conclude there was sufficient evidence to conclude guilt? Sometimes I'm not sure where you stand, if you thought there was a good chance Trump is legit innocent, or just that he wouldn't be held accountable?

[Joe K]

I don’t think Trump engaged in a criminal conspiracy with Russia in connection with the 2016 election. I don’t even think he wanted to win the election, so I find it unlikely that he would attempt such an audacious plot. And had be done so, I think at least one campaign operative would have been charged in connection with that. The Mueller investigation was nothing if not thorough.

As for obstruction of justice, all you need to do is read Trump’s Twitter feed to see that there’s an argument that he committed that offense. But given the DOJ guidance regarding indictments of sitting Presidents, and the fact that no one is going to be charged with an underlying conspiracy, I’m not surprised he won’t be charged with obstruction of justice.

[Johnnie]

All while we plebes are arguing over Russian influence, McConnell has blocked another attempt at the full report being released again.

[Rush2112]

[Johnnie]

I don’t think Trump engaged in a criminal conspiracy with Russia in connection with the 2016 election. I don’t even think he wanted to win the election, so I find it unlikely that he would attempt such an audacious plot. And had be done so, I think at least one campaign operative would have been charged in connection with that. The Mueller investigation was nothing if not thorough.

As for obstruction of justice, all you need to do is read Trump’s Twitter feed to see that there’s an argument that he committed that offense. But given the DOJ guidance regarding indictments of sitting Presidents, and the fact that no one is going to be charged with an underlying conspiracy, I’m not surprised he won’t be charged with obstruction of justice.

That... Actually sounds reasonable, sound, and fair, IMO.

Ultimately, by virtue of sitting in an untouchable position, the president is going untouched....which makes 2020 all the more important in the grand scheme of things for Democrats who simply cannot afford to bungle themselves into losing based on ego.

But then again, when you have a wet sock like Chuck Schumer as a senior leader, Kevin Garnet would tell you that aaannythiiiinngggg iiiissss possssibleeeee!