The Swamp

If we bought Greenland, Russia would own it before he leaves office.

This was the NYT lunacy:

All this talk about tax cuts to spur the economy...I almost guarantee and cut will end up being Capital Gains...which means it help basically no one because the people with significant amounts in investments will be looking to move their money to safer places for the impending recession, and you're giving them extra incentive to do so.

Payroll tax cut or bust.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 am This was the NYT lunacy:

Unreal.

"Youngest Child Withdraws 'Favorite Daddy Ever' Honor After Bedtime Spat"

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:57 pm Greenland would be great for some golf resorts.

Just googled. Uummannaq Golf Course is one of the most dangerous in the world!

And maybe Thule AB can reap that benefit.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:11 am All this talk about tax cuts to spur the economy...I almost guarantee and cut will end up being Capital Gains...which means it help basically no one because the people with significant amounts in investments will be looking to move their money to safer places for the impending recession, and you're giving them extra incentive to do so.

Payroll tax cut or bust.

You aren't really suggesting support for an additional tax cut, are you? The last one has caused a huge increase in the deficit. Supply side economics don't work out the way Friedman claimed.

I think a real tax cut for people is way better than the one we just got for corporations. But no, I don't really think that a tax cut will do anything but be a political card.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:14 am

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:11 am All this talk about tax cuts to spur the economy...I almost guarantee and cut will end up being Capital Gains...which means it help basically no one because the people with significant amounts in investments will be looking to move their money to safer places for the impending recession, and you're giving them extra incentive to do so.

Payroll tax cut or bust.

You aren't really suggesting support for an additional tax cut, are you? The last one has caused a huge increase in the deficit. Supply side economics don't work out the way Friedman claimed.

Something like a payroll tax can actually be effective in stimulating the economy and it's at least fair since it applies to everyone (well, everyone with a job). If the GOP had proposed that instead of a tax cut on the 1 percent a couple of years ago I personally probably would have been on board.

That said, it's trying to bail out a sinking cruise ship with a bucket. Trump just wants to try and hold off the recession he brought on until after the election.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 am

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:14 am

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:11 am All this talk about tax cuts to spur the economy...I almost guarantee and cut will end up being Capital Gains...which means it help basically no one because the people with significant amounts in investments will be looking to move their money to safer places for the impending recession, and you're giving them extra incentive to do so.

Payroll tax cut or bust.

You aren't really suggesting support for an additional tax cut, are you? The last one has caused a huge increase in the deficit. Supply side economics don't work out the way Friedman claimed.

Something like a payroll tax can actually be effective in stimulating the economy and it's at least fair since it applies to everyone (well, everyone with a job). If the GOP had proposed that instead of a tax cut on the 1 percent a couple of years ago I personally probably would have been on board.

That said, it's trying to bail out a sinking cruise ship with a bucket. Trump just wants to try and hold off the recession he brought on until after the election.

One of you is going to have to explain to me how payroll tax is different than income tax. Your federal and state tax taken from your paycheck is just a pre-payment of your income taxes, and thus doesn't affect your tax bill. The only other things deducted from your check are usually health insurance/social security/etc. which are not taxes.

Basically, the money that the gubmit was gonna put towards Medicare and Social Security gets rebated back to taxpayers.

Same thing was done in 2011 and 2012 to stimulate the economy, though of course the economy was in much graver condition then. This is obviously just Trump flailing for anyway to hold off the inevitable recession. (To say nothing of the long-term effects it has on Social Security/Medicare as well.)

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:03 am

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:57 pm Greenland would be great for some golf resorts.

Just googled. Uummannaq Golf Course is one of the most dangerous in the world!

And maybe Thule AB can reap that benefit.

For any other idiots like me, Thule is an Air Base in Greenland, not an alter ego like AB the Drunk or AB the White.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:30 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:03 am

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:57 pm Greenland would be great for some golf resorts.

Just googled. Uummannaq Golf Course is one of the most dangerous in the world!

And maybe Thule AB can reap that benefit.

For any other idiots like me, Thule is an Air Base in Greenland, not an alter ego like AB the Drunk or AB the White.

I thought Johnnie was reading my texts messages, because I am borrowing a THule from a friend for the trip to Boston, which isn't as far away as greenland, may as well be.

Trump has had quite a ratcheted up batshit couple of days to distract from the fact he wants indefinite detention for immigrants. This is beyond 25th Amendment territory.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:15 pm Trump has had quite a ratcheted up batshit couple of days to distract from the fact he wants indefinite detention for immigrants. This is beyond 25th Amendment territory.

He floated an executive order to outlaw birthright citizenship as well, arguably even more dangerous. Hard to see how SCOTUS would let that fly -- the 14th amendment seems pretty clear -- but I've learned not to let myself be surprised any more.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:20 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:15 pm Trump has had quite a ratcheted up batshit couple of days to distract from the fact he wants indefinite detention for immigrants. This is beyond 25th Amendment territory.

He floated an executive order to outlaw birthright citizenship as well, arguably even more dangerous. Hard to see how SCOTUS would let that fly -- the 14th amendment seems pretty clear -- but I've learned not to let myself be surprised any more.

My wife was born abroad while her father was in the Air Force. This isn't the same situation obviously, but both of her parents were immigrants (her dad became a US citizen before she was born) too. Doubt things would go as far as affecting her, but like you said not much would surprise me anymore.

So the republican party paymasters just gonna let him drive the economy into the ground, then?

"Trade wars are good and easy to win." - President Supa Genius

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:46 pm So the republican party paymasters just gonna let him drive the economy into the ground, then?

They probably make money off of a recession or depression.

I know you have to take Abramson stuff with a grain of salt, but is Trump's China tweet tirade a distraction from something else coming?

EdRomero wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:25 pm I know you have to take Abramson stuff with a grain of salt, but is Trump's China tweet tirade a distraction from something else coming?

And nothing will happen...

Yeah, I keep making the same 2 mistakes. 1. Thinking Trump is strategically timing distractions rather than accepting he's just an impulsive idiot. 2. Thinking any scandal or news, no matter how big, will result is something significant.

Breaking news from the G7 Summit:

This is less believable than “I have a girlfriend in Canada.”

I don't really believe any of this, but it's fun to think about.

I've already seen Active Measures. This shit was obvious to everyone, including the Congress members involved with that movie.

Plausible in theory right up until the part about the Rs in Congress or the general public caring.

Like there’s a belief we could have another “have you no decency” moment when in actuality, trump would respond with “decency is for (slur)s”, that would become a bumper sticker rallying cry and the serious analysts would chastise the democrats for walking into his trap and creating his 2020 slogan for him.

I’m finally on board with that opinion. There’s no shaming these fucks any more. It’s gotta be either electorally or a bullet in their heads.

Or Trump and Barr doing something unethical/illegal to delay the proceedings (and I don't trust the dems to have a competent strategy. I also think the dems are going to be hit hard with "why did you wait so long?" anger, and "but Mitch wouldn't let us" won't be enough. He has already done so much damage and the idea that they're waiting for tax returns seems pretty bad, even if that is supposedly the secret weapon that will ruin him (rather than his actions for the all world to see over the last 3 years)

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:11 pm I don't really believe any of this, but it's fun to think about.

Yeah, that thread reads like Nancy Pelosi fan fiction. The House should keep trying to get Trump’s tax returns but I highly doubt either those documents (or his Deutsche Bank ones) would present any type of smoking gun even if he were doing extensive money laundering. Haven’t scandals like the Panama Papers shown that rich people just hide all their illicit income in offshore tax shelters rather than declaring it?

Also, to Brian’s point, this feels like yet another example of liberal wishful thinking for a deus ex machina that gets rid of Trump without them having to beat him electorally. But that’s highly unlikely to happen, in any form. He’ll need to be beaten at the ballot box.

Agreed all around. I guess we'll find out in November.

Anyhoo, this is a good zinger, as he feeds his pathological need to stay relevant:

The fact that Scaramucci is given air time is a horrible indictment of CNN and other outlets.

I mean, in Scaramucci's perfect world, he'd still be working for Trump.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:13 am The fact that Scaramucci is given air time is a horrible indictment of CNN and other outlets.

I mean, in Scaramucci's perfect world, he'd still be working for Trump.

It’s probably easier for self-promoting right-wing hacks to get airtime on CNN or MSNBC or editorial space with The NY Times or Washington Post by playing the “I’ve seen the light and Trump is actually bad” grift than it is for actual leftists to get a voice at those outlets. People are just so, so desperate to believe that Republicans will turn on Trump even though there’s no evidence of that happening to any meaningful degree.

What the hell is in the nature of these Democrats that they have to be such pathetic submissives all the fucking time?

They've completely, 100% lost sight of their responsibilities. Its amazing.

"Come to Johnny's's BBBQ, the extra B is for BYOBA."
"What's that extra 'A' for?"
"That's his NRA rating."

Funny how all these guys get tough and willing to stand up to Trump, after they leave politics.

Mattis rebukes Trump

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:59 am Funny how all these guys get tough and willing to stand up to Trump, after they leave politics.

Mattis rebukes Trump

True. It would take a lot of bravery and gumption to call out someone while you are in a position under his authority.

But I'm certainly willing to give a guy like Mattis all the leeway imaginable because of who he is.

Like, I'll get kicked out of the military if I was publicly critical of the president to the degree I am on here and in private discussions with friends. (I mean, this is still a public forum, but there's some anonymity here.)

Ultimately, I'm not jeopardizing retirement to be some beacon of hope to others. Being a pariah doesn't pay my rent and other bills. And no one I'd be standing up for will financially support me. (Plus, I'm not high enough in the food chain to start some revolution or something.)