The Swamp

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:49 pm Or, it's all a damn game and they secretly are in it together, but have to appear to take sides.

The recent funerals of McCain and H. W. Bush push me in this direction.

When Bush gives Michelle Obama candy it isn't cute.

When Michelle and Barack give pleasantries to Donald and Melania, I get it, but it isn't cute.

When Hillary and Donald are in close proximity and nothing happens, that's not what I've been trained to think.

When Kissinger is invited to McCain's funeral and Meghan is all "America was always great" to subtweet Donald, but aligns with him and Republicans on every fucking thing, and completely disregarding her father's POW status due to politics, my head fucking explodes.

It's all a joke on some level.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:49 pm Or, it's all a damn game and they secretly are in it together, but have to appear to take sides.

The recent funerals of McCain and H. W. Bush push me in this direction.

When Bush gives Michelle Obama candy it isn't cute.

When Michelle and Barack give pleasantries to Donald and Melania, I get it, but it isn't cute.

When Hillary and Donald are in close proximity and nothing happens, that's not what I've been trained to think.

When Kissinger is invited to McCain's funeral and Meghan is all "America was always great" to subtweet Donald, but aligns with him and Republicans on every fucking thing, and completely disregarding her father's POW status due to politics, my head fucking explodes.

It's all a joke on some level.

Yep. And if Republicans were sure Trump couldn’t win, and still wouldn’t even endorse a Democrat, they’re going to primary him when he’s President and has the power of the Presidency?

I’m trying to avoid thinking about 2020 too much but it’ll be fascinating if a genuine economic reformer like Sanders or Warren gets the nomination. The one thing that the Bushes, Trumps, McCains, Clintons and Obamas all share is that they’re all extraordinarily wealthy and thus are part of the same social class. That’s why those photos exist of a smiling Hillary warmly embracing Trump and Melania at their wedding. A major party nominee that Wall Street and corporate interests actually fear would be an interesting litmus year.

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on your assertion that the Obamas were wealthy -- at the time he ran for president at least. The only significant income he had ever earned up to that point was from his memoir and that ran to about $1.5M if I recall correctly. By that rationale, there are probably Swampers who are more wealthy than Obama in 2007.

Both Warren and Sanders are probably wealthier now than Obama was before he was president -- and to be fair Sanders is one of the least-wealthiest Senators.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:30 pm I'm gonna have to call bullshit on your assertion that the Obamas were wealthy -- at the time he ran for president at least. The only significant income he had ever earned up to that point was from his memoir and that ran to about $1.5M if I recall correctly. By that rationale, there are probably Swampers who are more wealthy than Obama in 2007.

Both Warren and Sanders are probably wealthier now than Obama was before he was president -- and to be fair Sanders is one of the least-wealthiest Senators.

That’s why I said they *are* extraordinarily wealthy, not they were.

Here's the thing, regardless of economic class, the first (and second) families all share a bond that very few people on the planet can understand. It may look gross to us, but these are real people that can commiserate about probably the most difficult 4-8 years of their lives.

I get that it looks and feels weird. And I don't think Trump is ever going to be accepted into that cadre. But it's not some sign that there's some high level conspiracy going on.

That said, I would agree that Obama certainly didn't do enough to take on Wall Street and big money interests. But it's not like he ran on a progressive/populist platform across the board. His health care reform was based heavily on the Massachusetts model, certainly not a single-payer approach (as we all know.)

I agree with all of the last post. What I was addressing was Johnnie’s astute point that politics just seems like a game when you see how the powerful act. And my point about Sanders and Warren is that the current perception of Trump — that he’s a profane bully at best or a literal traitor at worst — will be tested if he faces a Sanders or Warren. I bet that a lot of self-proclaimed “centrists” and “never Trump Republicans” will find his flaws a lot more forgivable if the alternative is someone actually willing to upset the apple cart.

I share much of Johnnie's disgust, but there is supposed to be a level of decorum and gravitas at the upper end of a government. It is one of the things that separates a democracy with strong institutions from a banana republic.

Which is part of what makes Trump and Co. so revolting.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:51 pm I share much of Johnnie's disgust, but there is supposed to be a level of decorum and gravitas at the upper end of a government. It is one of the things that separates a democracy with strong institutions from a banana republic.

Which is part of what makes Trump and Co. so revolting.

This.

Hey, we won Syria today.

EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:02 pm Hey, we won Syria today.

Will there be a parade? Trump is dying to have a parade.

So as long as your putrid stink on humanity is displayed in a palatable fashion it's cool.

That's why GWB is suddenly "not so bad in retrospect" despite starting a war in Iraq that made war contractors in the private sector rich while hundreds of thousands were killed. Pass the treats to Michelle! It's so cute!

Trump hasn't even sniffed that level of depravity. But mean tweets and bad talk!

Imagine if Trump was cool enough to have a beer with.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:58 pm
Imagine if Trump was cool enough to have a beer with.

Man, I write cartoons for a living - today I wrote about a duck, a wombat and a beaver who is a science whiz trying to convince a leaf that it was time to let go of the branch and join its friends in the leaf pile so that winter could begin...

That I could imagine. But I could never imagine a scenario where it would be cool to have a beer with that asshole.

This seems likely to foreclose any possibility of Trump facing a primary challenge in 2020.

I don't think it changes anything. Anyone thinking of primary-ing him already knew/knows the RNC is going to be in the bag for Dear Leader and that the odds of actually winning a primary against a sitting president are essentially nil regardless of the circumstances. What is unknown is how extensive the damage is going to be from Mueller-related bombshells and if anyone in the GOP feels like tilting at a windmill.

5 million raised in 2 days....

Speaking of "news" no one should care about. Its $995MM away, its not a thing.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Speaking of "news" no one should care about. Its $995MM away, its not a thing.

i know but i'm amazed it even made $5 let alone 5 million.

what happens to all that money?

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Speaking of "news" no one should care about. Its $995MM away, its not a thing.

It's $995M away from being able to build only 5 percent of the wall. I'll never cease to be amazed at what easy marks these goobers are.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:11 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Speaking of "news" no one should care about. Its $995MM away, its not a thing.

i know but i'm amazed it even made $5 let alone 5 million.

what happens to all that money?

That's going to be something for the media to follow I hope. It is possible to give money to the US Treasury. Believe it or not, people do it all the time. The caveat is that money turned over to the Treasury can't be earmarked for any specific purpose. So there's really no way for this money to get to its expressed purpose. I'm kinda surprised GoFundMe hasn't shut it down except it's great publicity for them.

She’s done.

Interesting that, despite the location on that gofundme being Miramar, FL, the request for checks is a UPS store in my town in Colorado.

Edit: Apparently he lives here now. Great.

phxgators wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 pm Interesting that, despite the location on that gofundme being Miramar, FL, the request for checks is a UPS store in my town in Colorado.

Edit: Apparently he lives here now. Great.

It's such an easy and obvious grift I'm kinda pissed that we just didn't come up with it.

Here's a good grift.

Step 1: We setup a shell operation somewhere like Tucson or maybe even in Yuma or Imperial County, California. Make it sound like there's a few dozen of us and we're all gung ho about border security. Take a few pictures in a "uniform" amongst the scrub brush/desert somewhere (doesn't even have to be near the border -- that's the beauty! Can do it five miles from my house).

Step 2: Figure out a way to solicit money from MAGA turds to "patrol" the border for illegals promising to turn them over to ICE/Border Patrol.

Step 3: For legal purposes, a few of us will go camping one night in Mexicali or some shit and just get really drunk.

Step 4: Profit?

i'll drive worldwide web traffic to it.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:52 pm I don't think it changes anything. Anyone thinking of primary-ing him already knew/knows the RNC is going to be in the bag for Dear Leader and that the odds of actually winning a primary against a sitting president are essentially nil regardless of the circumstances. What is unknown is how extensive the damage is going to be from Mueller-related bombshells and if anyone in the GOP feels like tilting at a windmill.

Yeah, this goes back ONCE AGAIN to thinking that the DNC and RNC are set up to be some kind of impartial bodies that wait out the primary process to back a candidate. That's. Not. How. This. Works.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:00 pm Here's a good grift.

Step 1: We setup a shell operation somewhere like Tucson or maybe even in Yuma or Imperial County, California. Make it sound like there's a few dozen of us and we're all gung ho about border security. Take a few pictures in a "uniform" amongst the scrub brush/desert somewhere (doesn't even have to be near the border -- that's the beauty! Can do it five miles from my house).

Step 2: Figure out a way to solicit money from MAGA turds to "patrol" the border for illegals promising to turn them over to ICE/Border Patrol.

Step 3: For legal purposes, a few of us will go camping one night in Mexicali or some shit and just get really drunk.

Step 4: Profit?

I could use the extra cash. I'm in.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:52 pm I don't think it changes anything. Anyone thinking of primary-ing him already knew/knows the RNC is going to be in the bag for Dear Leader and that the odds of actually winning a primary against a sitting president are essentially nil regardless of the circumstances. What is unknown is how extensive the damage is going to be from Mueller-related bombshells and if anyone in the GOP feels like tilting at a windmill.

The OTHER way to look at a primary run is this:

You are republican governor or congressman with a low profile, but think you can carry GOP primaries down the road. You do the math and realize Trump is going to shit the bed in 2020 (and this isn't something that needs to happen anytime soon... wait out the investigations...) You want to differentiate yourself from the Trump Party, so you do a 2020 primary run, you lose. And when Trump gets destroyed, now you are one of the few within the party that can credibly position themselves with the millions of republicans who want the party steered away from all this white nationalist bullshit.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:13 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:11 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Speaking of "news" no one should care about. Its $995MM away, its not a thing.

i know but i'm amazed it even made $5 let alone 5 million.

what happens to all that money?

That's going to be something for the media to follow I hope. It is possible to give money to the US Treasury. Believe it or not, people do it all the time. The caveat is that money turned over to the Treasury can't be earmarked for any specific purpose. So there's really no way for this money to get to its expressed purpose. I'm kinda surprised GoFundMe hasn't shut it down except it's great publicity for them.

Most GoFund Me campaigns operate under the rule that if you don't come close to the goal, the money is returned.

ETA - Which, by the way, making the goal 5B is a good indication that this thing is a joke. The guy knew he'd never get that kind of dough, or even close. "If everyone who voted for Trump game $80, we can reach our goal!" Fuck off, dude, you know that's never going to happen.

Or maybe he's dumb as a box of rocks. Same result.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:21 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:52 pm I don't think it changes anything. Anyone thinking of primary-ing him already knew/knows the RNC is going to be in the bag for Dear Leader and that the odds of actually winning a primary against a sitting president are essentially nil regardless of the circumstances. What is unknown is how extensive the damage is going to be from Mueller-related bombshells and if anyone in the GOP feels like tilting at a windmill.

The OTHER way to look at a primary run is this:

You are republican governor or congressman with a low profile, but think you can carry GOP primaries down the road. You do the math and realize Trump is going to shit the bed in 2020 (and this isn't something that needs to happen anytime soon... wait out the investigations...) You want to differentiate yourself from the Trump Party, so you do a 2020 primary run, you lose. And when Trump gets destroyed, now you are one of the few within the party that can credibly position themselves with the millions of republicans who want the party steered away from all this white nationalist bullshit.

Interesting you say all that because I've heard some rumors that the outgoing GOP governor here in Nevada (Brian Sandoval) is contemplating his next move and one of the options is to primary Trump with the hopes of doing one of two things -- positioning himself as a possible 2024 frontrunner against a Dem president, though he's probably way too moderate to win a full field GOP nomination contest at this point or putting himself in consideration for nomination to the federal bench under a Democratic presidency since he resigned a lifetime appointment to the bench to be governor. (This would probably be preceded by a change in party.)

In a perfect world, he probably would have been the Supreme Court nominee instead of Kavanaugh -- the guy is brilliant -- but the fucked up calculus of Trumpism and the 21st century GOP is that a moderate has a much better chance of appointment to the bench under a Democratic presidency than a Republican because Trump and the GOP leadership has shown no interest in nominating based on CV and are only interested in nominating ideologues.

You're starting to see this more and more in the last few weeks and months. Several moderate Republicans in Kansas have defected to the Democratic Party. It could be an anomaly or it could be the vanguard of a real shift similar to how Democratic politicians in the South defected to the GOP after the Civil Rights Act.

ETA: If this DOES happen, you're going to see it happen also along geographic lines, although not in the same way. It'll all come from suburban areas where the GOP used to be strong, but where that R next to your name is now a liability. Think Orange County, CA; Oakland County, MI, etc.

Oh, Brian Kolfage. Dude's Facebook page is a cesspool.

Mr. "I'M GOING TO USE MY VETERAN STATUS AS PROOF I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT."

FOH to that asshole.

(But excellent grift to get idiots to pay for the wall.)

Russian Agents Sought Secret US Treasury Records On Clinton Backers During 2016 Campaign

Holy shit.

Hey, guys... Riddle me this: When you are a sitting president who is very likely going to face Impeachment, what group of humans on the planet do you really need to avoid pissing off?

(Hint: It's not his fucking Build That Wall band of window licking morons in his base.)

Farmers?

Senators, Pruitt!

sheesh.

Good lord, who is going to replace Mattis.

Oh fuck.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:05 pm Good lord, who is going to replace Mattis.

I routinely forget that Trump controls a vast nuclear arsenal which is maybe the only thing that allows me to sleep at night.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:12 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:05 pm Good lord, who is going to replace Mattis.

I routinely forget that Trump controls a vast nuclear arsenal which is maybe the only thing that allows me to sleep at night.

Technically that's Rick Perry. The SecDef has to ask to borrow them.

Edit

Raise your hand if you forgot Rick Perry was in this administration.

Mattis lasted 3 weeks less than Hagel.

His statement:

Is it too much to hope that Kelly and Mattis leaving is a sign that rmore repubs will turn on Trump? Those 2 were supposed to be the respectable adults, in the White House.