2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:46 pm

I'm pretty certain the first time I heard the "politics as sports" meme it was from Taibbi on Bill Maher or in an article he wrote a while ago. So, on that front, I'm good with him stating it or alluding to it.

Because sensationalized "news" delivered by opinion makers touted as "pundits" and the viewer constantly thrown into a Jerry Springer always-for-profit outrage and advertisement 24 hour cycle is why we're in this mess.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:55 pm

That was a good article by Taibbi. A lot of his readers will get annoyed because he criticizes the Democratic Party and many of its candidates but I think he has some pretty astute observations about their weaknesses. Taibbi is clearly not saying that Trump is better or that he should win re-election, just that there are real dangers in this election.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:59 pm

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:55 pm That was a good article by Taibbi. A lot of his readers will get annoyed because he criticizes the Democratic Party and many of its candidates but I think he has some pretty astute observations about their weaknesses. Taibbi is clearly not saying that Trump is better or that he should win re-election, just that there are real dangers in this election.

I don't think there's a Democrat alive who doesn't realize that after 2016. For the next couple of decades at least if not longer, you underestimate the peril of racism, nativism and nationalism at your risk.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:03 pm

brian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:59 pmI don't think there's a Democrat alive who doesn't realize that after 2016.

There are at least 3.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:16 pm

Who in the blue fuck is Steve Bullock?

I swear to God I thought I knew all the people in this thing.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:17 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:16 pm Who in the blue fuck is Steve Bullock?

I swear to God I thought I knew all the people in this thing.

???

Do they have a standby list so when one no-hoper drops out, another one gets to join?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:24 pm

This intro was... something.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:37 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:16 pm Who in the blue fuck is Steve Bullock?

Same here, had no idea.

I laughed for some reason at Hickenlooper's soundbite just being "I'm an optimist."

Tim Ryan looks like a motivational speaker from the 90s.

John Delaney looks like the creepy guy in an office sitcom.

e: Also I'm not watching.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:45 pm

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Bernie stuffing Tim Ryan in a locker was great.

ETA

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:53 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:24 pm This intro was... something.

Like the start of Boxing on Showtime.

Said it before, but one thing Trump is right about (but for the wrong reasons) CNN sucks.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:10 pm

US Politics is now sports entertainment

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:11 pm

Oh, Bernie fucking nailed CNN too when the topic was Medicare and he was like "You're going to run pharmaceutical ads on this channel tonight!"

CNN is complicit. I want him to say it.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:26 pm

Warren took Delaney to the woodshed too:

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:30 pm

Why is CNN framing Bernie as the bad guy tonight?

Every chryon has some shit moderate nobody answering a question that goes against Bernie's ideas.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:32 pm

Cause Bernie keeps raising his hand.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:19 pm

"Will you send everyone home in your first year in Afghanistan?"

Well, logistics doesn't work that quickly, Jake. What a bullshit question.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:29 pm

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 am

Warren owned Delaney (and by extension, lots of centrist Dems) so badly in that clip. The Democrats have to be the only major left-liberal party that focuses so much of its efforts on telling people that it can’t help them. Change the word “President” in her quote to “Senator” or “Congresswoman” or “Governor” and it’s no less true.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:37 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:16 pm Who in the blue fuck is Steve Bullock?
Same here, had no idea.

I laughed for some reason at Hickenlooper's soundbite just being "I'm an optimist."

Tim Ryan looks like a motivational speaker from the 90s.

John Delaney looks like the creepy guy in an office sitcom.

e: Also I'm not watching.

All 4 of those fuckwits need to drop out ASAP. They are nobodies trying to get a book deal and raise the price of speaking fees.

Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 amWarren owned Delaney (and by extension, lots of centrist Dems) so badly in that clip. The Democrats have to be the only major left-liberal party that focuses so much of its efforts on telling people that it can’t help them. Change the word “President” in her quote to “Senator” or “Congresswoman” or “Governor” and it’s no less true.

Yup. It's good that her and Bernie were able to torch some of the people on that stage. They had to not only deal with them, but with the bullshit of CNN making them out to be too extreme. CNN would love another 4 years of Trump.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:25 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 am
Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 amWarren owned Delaney (and by extension, lots of centrist Dems) so badly in that clip. The Democrats have to be the only major left-liberal party that focuses so much of its efforts on telling people that it can’t help them. Change the word “President” in her quote to “Senator” or “Congresswoman” or “Governor” and it’s no less true.
Yup. It's good that her and Bernie were able to torch some of the people on that stage. They had to not only deal with them, but with the bullshit of CNN making them out to be too extreme. CNN would love another 4 years of Trump.

I don’t know if it’s that CNN wants Trump as much as that it’s a network owned by very rich people and it’s on-air personalities are also rich. So the tradeoffs between taxes and social benefits inherent in Warren’s and Sanders’s proposals don’t sound nearly as appealing to CNN executives and anchors as they do to most voters.

I agree with you that having Warren and Sanders both on the stage together was good. Eventually they’ll probably need to make a pact to have one drop out to have a shot at beating Biden. But for now there’s a lot of value in having two strong progressive voices in the race, as it makes it harder to marginalize their views than it would be if only one were in the race.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:00 am

See, I go with the Jeff Zucker angle in my comment. He ran NBC and got Trump on The Apprentice, which was a hit.

So he runs CNN as a low rate entertainment network because that generates $$$$. You're correct about the rich people that run it, but he's the puppet master behind it all.

He'd love a status quo, milquetoast, Joe Biden or Generic Moderate because Bernie and Warren are threatening to his class and that person would not be.

See, if I'm on that stage taking ridiculous right wing talking point spun questions I just go hard at Tapper with something like "Every time Donald Trump says 'CNN is fake news,' Jeff Zucker makes money and cums in his pants. The entire Fox News Media Empire is nothing more than a glorified blow job machine for Donald Trump. So at the very least CNN is tickling his balls. Your questions are bullshit because you have a boss that profits at the detriment of others."

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:10 am

Would very much like to hear Gillibrand say that verbatim.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:14 am

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:45 am

The minimum wage to $15 dollars bothers me. I'd like the minimum wage to go up but to $15 immediately is drastic. We just went from $9 to $15 progressively over 4 years here in Alberta and it has hurt a lot of businesses. (It's actually good for my wife but I can expand on that another time).

The problem isn't that it goes from $9 to $15 but if you are at $15 4 years ago, you're still at $15.
I look at job boards in Calgary and everything from cleaners to receptionists is $15.

So who is going to pay $10,000 get a 2-year college certificate to make $15?

I've said it on here before, minimum wage shouldn't be a career livable wage. It should be a stepping stone for high schoolers to get experience or a job that is supplemented by tips.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:14 pm

Except high schoolers can't staff all the minimum wage jobs when they're busy in high school.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:18 pm

You know what's pretty drastic? A $1.5 trillion dollars tax cut for the super wealthy. And with that Act capping SALT at $10k to spite Democratic leaning states so that taxes go up on them too. Oh, and then there's also pressure to give the wealthy another tax cut without Congressional approval.

So spare me your worry about a sudden $15 dollar minimum wage hike when there hasn't been a "substantial" Federal minimum wage hike since 2008 when it went from $6.55 to $7.25.

I don't even have the energy to look up how the GDP trended up since then or compare it to the rate of inflation. Or compare it to the rate of how stuff costs more right now than 10 years ago, but people are making less and working more.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:14 pm Except high schoolers can't staff all the minimum wage jobs when they're busy in high school.

sure but they can/used to staff most.

Johnnie, I'm not arguing that. The tax cuts are disgusting as is the non raise in minimum wage in ten years. That's GOP government at work.
I just worry it's drastic. Alberta went up a lot the last 4 years and it's caused some problems.

Alberta 01-Oct-18 $15.00
Alberta 01-Oct-17 $13.60
Alberta 01-Oct-16 $12.20
Alberta 01-Oct-15 $11.20
Alberta 01-Sep-14 $10.20
Alberta 01-Sep-13 $9.95
Alberta 01-Sep-12 $9.75
Alberta 01-Sep-11 $9.40
Alberta 01-Apr-09 $8.80
Alberta 01-Apr-08 $8.40
Alberta 01-Sep-07 $8.00
Alberta 01-Sep-05 $7.00

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pmsure but they can/used to staff most.

No, they can't.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 pm

Counterpoint: It's not drastic.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:25 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pmsure but they can/used to staff most.
No, they can't.

Everyone stay home until 3:30. Problem solved.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:26 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:45 am The minimum wage to $15 dollars bothers me. I'd like the minimum wage to go up but to $15 immediately is drastic. We just went from $9 to $15 progressively over 4 years here in Alberta and it has hurt a lot of businesses. (It's actually good for my wife but I can expand on that another time).

The problem isn't that it goes from $9 to $15 but if you are at $15 4 years ago, you're still at $15.
I look at job boards in Calgary and everything from cleaners to receptionists is $15.

So who is going to pay $10,000 get a 2-year college certificate to make $15?

I've said it on here before, minimum wage shouldn't be a career livable wage. It should be a stepping stone for high schoolers to get experience or a job that is supplemented by tips.

All those same things were said when the minimum wage in Seattle was raised to $15. And....so far...the only businesses hurt by it are the shitty ones that were going out of business anyways (Its become the #1 boogie man when a poorly run restaurant has to close down).

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:33 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:25 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:23 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pmsure but they can/used to staff most.
No, they can't.
Everyone stay home until 3:30. Problem solved.

If someone comes out as pro-siesta, they'll have my vote.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:36 pm

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:56 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:26 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:45 am The minimum wage to $15 dollars bothers me. I'd like the minimum wage to go up but to $15 immediately is drastic. We just went from $9 to $15 progressively over 4 years here in Alberta and it has hurt a lot of businesses. (It's actually good for my wife but I can expand on that another time).

The problem isn't that it goes from $9 to $15 but if you are at $15 4 years ago, you're still at $15.
I look at job boards in Calgary and everything from cleaners to receptionists is $15.

So who is going to pay $10,000 get a 2-year college certificate to make $15?

I've said it on here before, minimum wage shouldn't be a career livable wage. It should be a stepping stone for high schoolers to get experience or a job that is supplemented by tips.
All those same things were said when the minimum wage in Seattle was raised to $15. And....so far...the only businesses hurt by it are the shitty ones that were going out of business anyways (Its become the #1 boogie man when a poorly run restaurant has to close down).

I was going to say something similar about what happened in Ontario when the minimum wage went from $11 to $14 a couple of years ago.

No drastic inflation, no rise in unemployment, no shuttering of stores - the sky did not fall.

From the Financial Post May 2019:

Employment in Ontario jumped by 47,000 in April, with job increases in Canada’s largest province at 205,000 over the past year...

Strong increases in youth employment also lowered the unemployment rate for that demographic to record lows.

And you know who benefitted the most? The people stuck in menial jobs. Not students, but the adults who whether from lack of opportunity, education or due to being immigrants without a great command of the language were working retail or in kitchens or elsewhere.

I would suggest that the companies offering receptionists $15 an hour are going to have a lot of turnover and will soon see that they'll have to pay better.

Anecdotally - my daughter recently got her first skilled job. A part-time (15-20 hours a week) job that she can do during the school year as well. She was thrilled to get it and was even more thrilled when they told her it paid $20 an hour going up to $22 after a four month probation. And why are they paying more than minimum wage? Same reasons as before the big bump - to attract and keep a skilled person.

And am I way off base in thinking that one reason so many people are against universal health care in the States is that if people could get coverage no matter what, would there then have to be a significant bump in the minimum wage to keep people chained to their shitty jobs?

Fun fact - in 1968, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage in the USA was $11.55.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/bu ... index.html

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm

Perhaps as a by-product of the whole Living Wage discussion, I'm seeing more restaurants around here ban tipping, while instituting a "service charge" for the servers of about ~18%. I'm down with that, although if I get really shitty service sometime, I may reverse my opinion.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:05 pm

This is Ontario's from what I could find.
Ontario 01-Jan-18 $14.00
Ontario 01-Oct-17 $11.60
Ontario 01-Oct-16 $11.40
Ontario 01-Oct-15 $11.25
Ontario 01-Jun-14 $11.00
Ontario 31-Mar-10 $10.25
Ontario 31-Mar-09 $9.50
Ontario 31-Mar-08 $8.75
Ontario 01-Feb-07 $8.00
Ontario 01-Feb-06 $7.75
Ontario 01-Feb-05 $7.45

I hope you're right Pruitt and Alberta hasn't quite adjusted yet. The $15 jobs still remaining at $15 is pretty criminal right now. My wife was thinking about going into Medical Lab Assistant (her job in Vietnam) but it only starts at $18. For the schooling it's going to take, she's better off working now for $15. There are other issues too why she doesn't want to do school including stress and health.

But some US states theoretically going from $7.25 to $15 is a big jump. It would have to depend over how many years.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:40 pm

Why is it criminal? Owners losing money and minimum wagers gaining money doesn't hurt the already at $15 worker.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:57 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:40 pm Why is it criminal? Owners losing money and minimum wagers gaining money doesn't hurt the already at $15 worker.

I think it does. Your skill set is now equal value to a lesser skill set.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:08 pm

I can see those being paid near the $15 mark getting squeezed out of raises if a company has a lot of people making less than that that the company now has to make up, but if you're at a job that already pays a decent amount over the minimum wage, but still not in the 40-50k range there is an argument that it's not a high-skill position. It might serve, however, to remove the stigma that working at a restaurant is less valuable than data entry/lower level position at a corporate entity.