The Swamp

From Bernie's website:

The Green New Deal

This is a Big Fucking Deal.

Stay for the replies

EdRomero wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:06 pm

Stay for the replies

A great read!

When I say it might be more detrimental to softly win than lose and blow it all up, this is the absolute bullshit I’m thinking about in perpetuity ...

brian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:10 pm Yeah, for whatever it's worth I expect he'll probably do at least one debate. I don't think that's something he's especially afraid of.

Its a sad statement on society, but I think Trump actually benefited from the debates, especially the Republican primary debates. Everyone else is stuck following the rules and behaving like a respectable adult while he lobbed insults and stole all the headlines. Rubio, Bush and the rest looked weak absorbing his insults and trying t respond while acting like a gentleman. Intelligent people watched Trump debate Hillary and saw a polished politician with extremely detailed policies, intellect and understanding of the issues. Trump had high brow responses like, "you're the puppet!" and fired up his base. The Dem nominee will have to decide between demeaning themselves and getting in the sewer with him, and looking like a stiff wimp, taking his insults and not fighting back. It's a no win.

If the Dem nom hasn't figured it out four years on, we are proper fucked.

Leadership won’t figure it out unless leadership knows they’re dead if they don’t figure it out.

Are we still supposed to believe that Warren and Sanders are the risky choices for the General Election?

Joe Biden is worse than Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton was atrocious and lost to Donald Trump.

Joe K wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:19 pm

Are we still supposed to believe that Warren and Sanders are the risky choices for the General Election?

That’s literally a Jonah Ryan dealie from a VEEP episode.

Yesssssss.

Fuck off, Biden.

And fuck off "liberal" outlets that don't blast this from the mountain tops

Can't wait for the viciously aggressive "fake poll" response from the DNC.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:20 pm Can't wait for the viciously aggressive "fake poll" response from the DNC.

It's a sample of less than 300 voters, so it's not a great poll from a statistical standpoint. But wouldn't surprise me to see Biden falling and Warren/Sanders rising over the next few months.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2019/aug ... s-problem/

Give Diamond Joe credit where credit is due on this one.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:58 pm https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2019/aug ... s-problem/

Give Diamond Joe credit where credit is due on this one.

I think this backfires. There's been institutional racism everywhere. Because a race always developed a particular place first. Then different races came later and there was abuses. White people should not have to forever feel guilty about the past.

I've never been a fan of treating minorities as a voting block. The "black vote" is kind if demeaning, like they can't think for themselves. And to have to pick a non-white running mate to achieve is even worse. Just make good policy that'll get all people excited to vote. Especially when the GOP is not.

Joe Biden is a white man problem.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:03 amI've never been a fan of treating minorities as a voting block. The "black vote" is kind if demeaning, like they can't think for themselves.

Everyone is a racial voting bloc once you carve out wealth, gender and education. And aside from a few of the non-hispanic white ones, they're pretty consistently united.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:03 amI've never been a fan of treating minorities as a voting block. The "black vote" is kind if demeaning, like they can't think for themselves.

Everyone is a racial voting bloc once you carve out wealth, gender and education. And aside from a few of the non-hispanic white ones, they're pretty consistently united.

Perhaps currently but i don't think that exists forever. I mean eventually wealth, gender and education will be equal, then what?

We'll deal with that in 2197.

Yeah, and I'll eventually be able to change a tire.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:03 amI've never been a fan of treating minorities as a voting block. The "black vote" is kind if demeaning, like they can't think for themselves.

Everyone is a racial voting bloc once you carve out wealth, gender and education. And aside from a few of the non-hispanic white ones, they're pretty consistently united.

Also, we’ve said this before but you just cannot compare the black experience in America to that of other minority groups (with the possible exception of Native Americans). They’ve been systematically discriminated in all kinds of ways, for centuries. And the reason that, as a group, they vote overwhelmingly Democratic is the GOP’s utter refusal to reckon with that history.

Where the dems seem to fuck up there recently isn't in keeping the voting percentage in the 90% range, its not raising the denominator. "We won't actively harm you like they will" doesn't quite inspire like "here's how we'll help you" would.

Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

She’s smart and has been a pretty good Senator but her failure to get any traction shows how little appetite there is for a genetic establishment Democrat. Biden is polling well due to a combination of name recognition, association with Obama and perceived electability. But otherwise the more traditional candidates are completely floundering.

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:33 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

She’s smart and has been a pretty good Senator but her failure to get any traction shows how little appetite there is for a genetic establishment Democrat. Biden is polling well due to a combination of name recognition, association with Obama and perceived electability. But otherwise the more traditional candidates are completely floundering.

That's another reason to believe either Warren or Sanders are gonna get the nomination instead of Biden. Best case scenario might be one of those two pulling out after the first four primaries in February (assuming the person in question performed poorly in those) and concentrating support on the one who does the best of the two. Of course, based on 2016 I very much doubt Bernie will end his campaign until the convention regardless of how he's doing. He and his supporters don't seem to think much of Warren for whatever reason.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:33 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

She’s smart and has been a pretty good Senator but her failure to get any traction shows how little appetite there is for a genetic establishment Democrat. Biden is polling well due to a combination of name recognition, association with Obama and perceived electability. But otherwise the more traditional candidates are completely floundering.

That's another reason to believe either Warren or Sanders are gonna get the nomination instead of Biden. Best case scenario might be one of those two pulling out after the first four primaries in February (assuming the person in question performed poorly in those) and concentrating support on the one who does the best of the two. Of course, based on 2016 I very much doubt Bernie will end his campaign until the convention regardless of how he's doing. He and his supporters don't seem to think much of Warren for whatever reason.

Would his voters go for Biden to spite Warren if it came down to it?

My daughter is a co-chair of the BU for Warren student group, and is traveling to New Hampshire a week from Saturday for an event and will be meeting Warren.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:44 am

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:33 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

She’s smart and has been a pretty good Senator but her failure to get any traction shows how little appetite there is for a genetic establishment Democrat. Biden is polling well due to a combination of name recognition, association with Obama and perceived electability. But otherwise the more traditional candidates are completely floundering.

That's another reason to believe either Warren or Sanders are gonna get the nomination instead of Biden. Best case scenario might be one of those two pulling out after the first four primaries in February (assuming the person in question performed poorly in those) and concentrating support on the one who does the best of the two. Of course, based on 2016 I very much doubt Bernie will end his campaign until the convention regardless of how he's doing. He and his supporters don't seem to think much of Warren for whatever reason.

Would his voters go for Biden to spite Warren if it came down to it?

I very much doubt that. I just don't get why they can't acknowledge that her policies are at least as progressive as his.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 am My daughter is a co-chair of the BU for Warren student group, and is traveling to New Hampshire a week from Saturday for an event and will be meeting Warren.

AB's daughter > AB

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:48 am

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 am My daughter is a co-chair of the BU for Warren student group, and is traveling to New Hampshire a week from Saturday for an event and will be meeting Warren.

AB's daughter > AB

That's all I'm trying to do.

I really don’t understand the perception that Sanders doesn’t think much of Warren. He’s repeatedly called her a friend. Sanders gave an interview early in the campaign where he scoffed at Biden calling himself “the most progressive candidate” but specifically identified Warren as an actual progressive. Sanders also been far more supportive of Warren’s various causes than anyone else in the race. This notion Sanders doesn’t like Warren feels like more manufactured “Bernie bro nonsense,” even though polls show his supporters are more diverse (both by gender and race) than anyone besides Biden.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:46 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:44 am

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:33 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:42 am Gillibrand dropped out. About fucking time.

Her stock fell really fast. She was one of the favorites when this thread started.

She’s smart and has been a pretty good Senator but her failure to get any traction shows how little appetite there is for a genetic establishment Democrat. Biden is polling well due to a combination of name recognition, association with Obama and perceived electability. But otherwise the more traditional candidates are completely floundering.

That's another reason to believe either Warren or Sanders are gonna get the nomination instead of Biden. Best case scenario might be one of those two pulling out after the first four primaries in February (assuming the person in question performed poorly in those) and concentrating support on the one who does the best of the two. Of course, based on 2016 I very much doubt Bernie will end his campaign until the convention regardless of how he's doing. He and his supporters don't seem to think much of Warren for whatever reason.

Would his voters go for Biden to spite Warren if it came down to it?

I very much doubt that. I just don't get why they can't acknowledge that her policies are at least as progressive as his.

This really isn’t true on foreign policy, though, which is an area where the President has a ton of power and discretion regardless of the composition of Congress. Sanders has been more of a leader on issues like Palestine and Yemen, and a more effective critic of militaristic and imperialist overreach, which is why I currently support him as my top choice. (Warren is my #2 and Castro is a distant 3rd.)

(vast majority of voters, even in primaries, don't vote on foreign policy concerns)

((am i worried about health care, education, the economy or what's going in Yemen, a country i can't place on a map))

I also have no doubt that she's going to be solid in foreign policy as president if she's elected. But that's not even in the top 15 or 20 most important things I'm looking for in a Dem candidate in this election. Too much else at stake.

Yup. Sowing the seeds of "Bernie Bros ruin everything!" when everything to the contrary is or in the open.

Hillary is not Liz Warren. And even when Hillary is Hillary Joe K has dispelled the notion time and again that Bernie Bros ruined her.

Maybe she could've visited Wisconsin? Nah, far easier to complain about Bernie Bros.

I think that Bernie and Warren have a blood pact that says "If we're the last two, one drops to the other" and they combine forces. Because they not only have to fight the Republicans, they have to deal with the "extreme centrists" Democrats.

ETA

The only thing that may give anyone pause, and credit to Chapo Trap House for the note, she has nothing on her website about Medicare For All despite saying publicly she supports it. They also mention a few other small things, but acting like Bernie Bros are going to lead to reelecting Trump is such horseshit.

I’m a bit surprised by the “foreign policy isn’t that important” takes. It’s an area where the choice of President is very important because, as a general rule, Mitch McConnell and Joe Manchin won’t have veto power. Also, as evidenced by places like Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen, bad (and in many cases bipartisan) foreign policy choices that the US makes can create a massive amount of global human suffering. Conversely, the good things we’ve done (like Obama’s Iran deal and Paris climate accords) are also really significant. So at least for me personally, it’s always one of the most important issues.

You are an anomaly.

Well, the president's foreign policy and the nation's imperialistic motives affect me. Especially when I was in Germany. So I care too, but ultimately only until I'm retired.