The Swamp

Foreign policy matters, but I honestly don't see a Warren presidency being substantially different from a Sanders presidency as far as foreign policy is concerned. Obviously if you drill down to some specifics there might be some differences but it's not like Warren is gonna let Putin do whatever he wants or support Assad gassing people or nuke Venezuela.

I guess I have to state what I thought was obvious. Of course foreign policy is important.

But it has consistently ranked near the bottom of the list of interests/concerns in exit polling. Again, excepting years where we were engaged in highly controversial conflicts. We are nowhere near that situation right now.

Now, if you want to talk about trade policy and China... Or if you want to shoehorn Mexico/immigration into the "foreign policy" bucket, that's fine... But that's not really what is driving those conversations, because Trump.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 am My daughter is a co-chair of the BU for Warren student group, and is traveling to New Hampshire a week from Saturday for an event and will be meeting Warren.

Lucky

As he campaigns for president, Joe Biden tells a moving but false war story

Atta boy Joe!

“This is the God’s truth,” Biden had said as he told the story. “My word as a Biden.”

Except almost every detail in the story appears to be incorrect.

Aaaaaand, there's the first true Biden-level gaffe of this cycle.

I think I mentioned this early on, but if not I'm just echoing what lots of people say about Biden... At some point, in some significant fashion, he will provide the opposition fresh material to portray him as a walking/talking gaffe machine.

There's a reason this guy has never come out of the primary process as a serious contender.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:17 pm Aaaaaand, there's the first true Biden-level gaffe of this cycle.

I think I mentioned this early on, but if not I'm just echoing what lots of people say about Biden... At some point, in some significant fashion, he will provide the opposition fresh material to portray him as a walking/talking gaffe machine.

There's a reason this guy has never come out of the primary process as a serious contender.

So to make an NFL analogy, is Biden like Phillip Rivers? Or more of an Andy Dalton figure?

Cautiously appreciated as a backup but can’t get out of his own way as a starter? Matt Flynn?

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:21 pm Cautiously appreciated as a backup but can’t get out of his own way as a starter? Matt Flynn?

Backed up someone viewed by many as an all-timer can be added to the list.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:55 pm

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:21 pm Cautiously appreciated as a backup but can’t get out of his own way as a starter? Matt Flynn?

Backed up someone viewed by many as an all-timer can be added to the list.

Was thinking more of a guy who hung around and had some skills, but just couldn't get the job done.

(Should take Rivers off that list)

Ron Jaworski?

Phillip rivers is a hall of famer.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:41 pm Phillip rivers is a hall of famer.

So's Biden if you're talking about anything other than his record running for president.

Ryan Fitzpatrick. Doesn't start the season with everyone else. Comes in when things look bleak and has a dominant three weeks then turns into an interception machine and gets sent back to the sidelines.

(And before Joe or someone else comes in here to "well, actually" me about his record the guy was a Senator -- a damn influential one -- for 36 years and one of only 48 men to be vice president of the United States. That's a Hall of Famer.)

All that said, it's time for him to sail off into the sunset.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:49 pm (And before Joe or someone else comes in here to "well, actually" me about his record the guy was a Senator -- a damn influential one -- for 36 years and one of only 48 men to be vice president of the United States. That's a Hall of Famer.)

All that said, it's time for him to sail off into the sunset.

Voting yes for Mitch on your ballot is gonna hurt.

“This is a big fuckin’ deal” - Steve Bono, Super Bowl 24

Bernie = Flutie?

Cunningham.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:53 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:49 pm (And before Joe or someone else comes in here to "well, actually" me about his record the guy was a Senator -- a damn influential one -- for 36 years and one of only 48 men to be vice president of the United States. That's a Hall of Famer.)

All that said, it's time for him to sail off into the sunset.

Voting yes for Mitch on your ballot is gonna hurt.

That’s the nature of the game, but you’re absolutely right. He qualifies too.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:40 pmCunningham.

I’d have jokes if the convention was in Minnesota instead of Wisconsin.

(or if Randall had had a late career resurgence in Green Bay that ended in a gut punch loss at the second highest level possible)

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:32 pm As he campaigns for president, Joe Biden tells a moving but false war story

Atta boy Joe!

“This is the God’s truth,” Biden had said as he told the story. “My word as a Biden.”

Except almost every detail in the story appears to be incorrect.

Obviously Biden has a special gift for just making stuff up but this debacle is sort of symptomatic of what bothers me about so many Democrats’ foreign policy. They don’t offer an alternative vision to imperialism or militarism, and instead just rehash traditional GOP themes about how much they love the troops and will be “tough” on our “enemies.” (In Biden’s case, he casts himself as a foreign policy expert but got the biggest foreign policy issue of his career (the Iraq invasion) dead wrong.)

Too often it seems like the Dems’ entire foreign policy goal is “don’t get called soft” by Republicans which is how you get the absurd scenario where people who are sitting US Senators and/or current Presidential candidates (looking your way, Kamala Harris) don’t say a damn thing one way or another as Mike Pence and Marco Rubio try to orchestrate a coup in Venezuela. Some truly inspiring leadership there.

I'm not making any predictions on if she'll win or not, but I'll telling you I think Warren is going to be the nominee. I've pretty much made up my mind at this point:



Also, the chaser (whatever you think of Haberman, you have to admit she's plugged into people who actually work in the Trump administration):

You know my feelings about her, and I've got $100 on her (to pay $650) to win.

Yeah, I tipped my hand a few months ago. I just think she has the right combo of specific policy solutions and solid campaign chops.

And it doesn't mean jack shit, but when the Pod Save guys do their live shows (including Lovett's weekly podcast), she dwarfs everyone in terms of audience reaction. Bernie gets a little heat, but Warren gets very loud reactions. Again, I know that doesn't mean much, but it was surprising to me when it started happening all the way back in June/July.

Is there still an argument that Biden is the electable one and Sanders or Warren are not?

Because within Democratic voters, it is clear that the progressives are more popular and Warren will win the primary. Is the above question the only thing keeping Biden in the race?

Because the Dem establishment (1) wants their person and (2) isn't ever chasing a win so much as a very specific swing voter.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:00 am Is there still an argument that Biden is the electable one and Sanders or Warren are not?

Because within Democratic voters, it is clear that the progressives are more popular and Warren will win the primary. Is the above question the only thing keeping Biden in the race?

It's not at all clear that Warren will win the primary, or necessarily that the progressives are more popular than Biden. Warren is doing great with educated, relatively affluent white Democrats. (A category that includes the Pod Save guys, myself and most people on this board.) But, at least to date, she doesn't do nearly as well as Biden (or Sanders) with minority and working class voters. Biden's appeal with those voters should not be underestimated -- minority voters in particular tend to vote with the establishment in Democratic primaries, rather than with insurgent candidates. That was true in 2016 and even Obama really had to prove his chops before he got those voters. Initially Clinton had a huge edge over Obama with black voters -- those voters did not just immediately flock to Obama.

Yeah. there's a lot of pieces at play here. At this point, nothing would surprise me. I think there's a legitimate non-zero chance Biden even drops out before a single primary as it's obvious (to me) he has some kind of cognitive disorder or at a minimum is starting to show signs of sundowning.

What happens after that if that happens changes the entire landscape of the race. Do Biden's supporters go to another moderate(-ish) candidate like Beto or Kamala Harris?

My personal opinions on this have been clear, but I try to keep that out of how I project things are going to go, but my only real concern at this point is that Warren and Bernie split the progressive votes enough that allow another candidate to win the nomination. If that's someone like Beto, Harris or Mayor Pete, the truth is I can probably live with it, if It's Biden I'll nut up and vote for him even though it probably means President Tom Cotton in 2024, but I'll hopefully be on a beach (with rising water levels) in Thailand by then and I'll leave it for you guys to deal with that nightmare.

My personal opinion is that as voters get to know Warren they really like her and she has enough time to get enough of them to realize with her they get at least 95 percent of the advantages of Bernie's platform with none of the negatives that go with him like his honeymoon in the Soviet Union, being a self-proclaimed socialist or his very often being a cranky bitch.

Joe Sixpack in the rust belt is used to Dem candidates being called socialists, voting for a self-proclaimed socialist -- even over Trump -- might be a bridge too far for many of them. Warren is a socialist Trojan horse instead of wheeling that horse up to the gate and demanding the gates be opened.

ETA: And frankly a lot of moderate voters will identify with her having switched from being a Republican a few decades ago. I'm not sure that point can be overstated for a party that spends way too much time and money actually trying to engage those voters. Having a candidate who used to be a Republican is something that will resonate with people and it's doubtful it's a political negative (both Trump and Reagan were former Democrats and weren't negatively impacted in general elections by that).

ETA

Excellent timing from his official Twitter account, btw.

Ol' Wacky Uncle Joe!

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:07 pm Ol' Wacky Uncle Joe!

Yeah, but Obama smiled at him.

What's going on? There is a trending #yangmediablackout

Here's some cringe for ya...

This guy deserves to be heard out.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:32 pm Here's some cringe for ya...

Like scenes from "Veep."

Daughter got a pinky promise from warren.

I guess it doesn't matter (age is just a number!) but I didn't realize Warren was 70 until I saw something on the news this morning about the Dem trio of 70 year olds.

Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:57 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:00 am Is there still an argument that Biden is the electable one and Sanders or Warren are not?

Because within Democratic voters, it is clear that the progressives are more popular and Warren will win the primary. Is the above question the only thing keeping Biden in the race?

It's not at all clear that Warren will win the primary, or necessarily that the progressives are more popular than Biden. Warren is doing great with educated, relatively affluent white Democrats. (A category that includes the Pod Save guys, myself and most people on this board.) But, at least to date, she doesn't do nearly as well as Biden (or Sanders) with minority and working class voters. Biden's appeal with those voters should not be underestimated -- minority voters in particular tend to vote with the establishment in Democratic primaries, rather than with insurgent candidates. That was true in 2016 and even Obama really had to prove his chops before he got those voters. Initially Clinton had a huge edge over Obama with black voters -- those voters did not just immediately flock to Obama.

Sorry, I've checked out of this stuff for about a month, including listening to Pod Save and reading these threads all that closely. Just want to thumbs up this comment.

Lot of people forget it took Obama actually winning in Iowa to create the momentum for heavily black South Cackilacky to believe he was a viable candidate. That wasn't self-loathing or anything, many just didn't believe enough white people would ever vote for a black presidential candidate. Once they saw it was possible, things start clicking pretty quickly.

Figured how to get Giff's vote -- Elizabeth Warren, Houston Rockets superfan.

Yup, love her.