Pulisic to Chelsea

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tennbengal
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Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by tennbengal » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:37 am

Now official. Loan now for rest of season with Dortmund, makes actual move to Chelsea permanent this summer, I think.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:51 am

You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.

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govmentchedda
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by govmentchedda » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:52 am

I still don't think I can like Chelsea, but fucking hell this is fantastic for him.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by tennbengal » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:10 am

On that last part - I hope so. Would be curious why specifically Chelsea is a good spot for him? Curious to learn /read thoughts. Selfishly, was hoping for Liverpool, but having him in EPL at one of the big clubs is a good development for any US player in any event.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Rex » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:18 am

Guess it depends on who will be managing Chelsea by the time he gets there

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by HaulCitgo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:43 am

Regardless of where the structure of this is great for him. Try to finish out a league title and get his spot back. If nothing else holing a bundesliga trophy might make a big German club (even Bayern) a nice fallback option. Maybe injury will let him see more time before the end of the season and he gets a full off season to train and try to impress in England for a spot. Do or die time but he's got six months to get ready and it's probably as ready as he's gonna get for a shot at the big big time. Just hope berhalter lets him stay home for gold cup but seriously doubt it. Don't see how that competition is going to help him more than staying in England (or I guess globetrotting with the summer circuit).
Last edited by HaulCitgo on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by testuser2 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:47 am

Did anyone see how much PA Classics would get from the transfer if the fed didn't steal it? They are already taking over much of the youth soccer in the area and could use the big chunks of money for facility upgrades.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by The Sybian » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:51 am

tennbengal wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:10 am
On that last part - I hope so. Would be curious why specifically Chelsea is a good spot for him? Curious to learn /read thoughts. Selfishly, was hoping for Liverpool, but having him in EPL at one of the big clubs is a good development for any US player in any event.
I don't know that he specifically wanted Chelsea over other EPL teams, but he has said his dream was to play in England, and Chelsea is obviously among the elite EPL teams. Liverpool and Chelsea are the only two clubs I've heard attached to Pulisic, and Chelsea's rumored money (which was spot on) was much higher than Liverpool's rumored offers. I'm slightly optimistic that if Chelsea is throwing that much money at Pulisic, they intend on using him. I'm less concerned about Pulisic leaving now that Jadon Sancho has pushed him out of Dortmund's XI. Kind of ironic, as I recently read an article about Sancho, and he said he got the idea of playing in Germany from watching Pulisic, and realized that a teenager had a better shot at playing time in Germany than England, so he wanted to follow Pulisic. Now he pushed Pulisic out of a starting role and into moving to England.

I'm sort of happy to see him in England, because it is the best league and the only league I truly follow, but I am concerned about him getting playing time. I hate Chelsea, but not nearly as much as I used to, so I can get over that and root for him in Chelsea blue while still hating the team. I just worry about him succeeding in England. I can't help but think of Jozy's miserable run at Sunderland after scoring 31(?) goals in a one season in Holland. Pulisic is small, and the EPL is a much more physical league, but I don't think he will have a problem with that. I think he is mentally much more capable than Jozy was. I want to see more Americans play in the EPL, but we've seen too many careers ruined by the move.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by wlu_lax6 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:10 am

I like that Dortmund wanted to keep him through this campaign and Pulisic knew enough that he needed a preseason to impress the Chelsea staff and earn a spot. Also will be interesting to see what this does for Chelsea in the market.

Also guessing we will see Chelsea in the ICC in the US this summer.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:21 am

The thing about his form this year -- and we've talked about this on this board -- is that he has been dealing with injuries since late September. He missed games as recently as early-December.

Now, they were probably being overly cautious with him due to the impending transfer. But the idea that Pulisic lost his spot to Sancho solely on merit is kind of silly. Yes, Dortmund sized things up and decided to put the teenager in... But Sancho isn't some big upgrade. It's just a pragmatic move. You know you're looking at a huge transfer fee with a proven 20 yo... No brainer to reduce his injury risk.

The fact that he got loaned back, IMO, speaks to this. I bet he starts playing a good deal more now that the ink is dry.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by govmentchedda » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:35 am

tennbengal wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:10 am
On that last part - I hope so. Would be curious why specifically Chelsea is a good spot for him? Curious to learn /read thoughts. Selfishly, was hoping for Liverpool, but having him in EPL at one of the big clubs is a good development for any US player in any event.
There's still a great deal of unknowns about what Chelsea will look like come August. Hazard may stop batting his eyelashes at Real and actually bed them, (which I'd rather not see happen, as far as how it would affect CP). Willian and Pedro are both over 30, and are the likeliest rivals for playing time at Stamford Bridge.

Joining Liverpool would have mean reuniting with Klopp, which I would have loved, but do you slot CP ahead of Firmino, Mane, Salah, Ox, or Shaqiri? City's roster is even more packed with attacking wing talent, see Sterling, DeBruyne, Sane, Silva, Silva, Mahrez, Jesus. Where does he get a game in there?

Selfishly, I'd have been over the moon if he'd come to Old Trafford, but even my shambolic squad doesn't lack for attacking talent, (Sanchez, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Herrera, Rashford).

One thing that has been discussed lately with Chelsea is that Sarri is playing Kante outside of his best role, complete fucking destroyer in defensive midfield, (which always seems crazy to me given how loveable N'Golo seems). I wonder if bringing CP in will allow Kante to shift slightly back towards that role. If it does, you could see them both flourish. And, different from Hazard, Kante just signed a new deal that runs through 2023.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by tennbengal » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:10 pm

Thanks Chedda. Syb, I am certainly not criticizing his endigmnup with Chelsea, my Liverpool note was more selfish because that’s who I pull for. My question asking about is Chelsea a good spot for him was more of a style question. Is Chelsea a good fit for Pulisic’s game? Will he be able to finish developing there?

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Baloney » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:20 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:51 am
tennbengal wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:10 am
On that last part - I hope so. Would be curious why specifically Chelsea is a good spot for him? Curious to learn /read thoughts. Selfishly, was hoping for Liverpool, but having him in EPL at one of the big clubs is a good development for any US player in any event.
I don't know that he specifically wanted Chelsea over other EPL teams, but he has said his dream was to play in England, and Chelsea is obviously among the elite EPL teams. Liverpool and Chelsea are the only two clubs I've heard attached to Pulisic, and Chelsea's rumored money (which was spot on) was much higher than Liverpool's rumored offers. I'm slightly optimistic that if Chelsea is throwing that much money at Pulisic, they intend on using him. I'm less concerned about Pulisic leaving now that Jadon Sancho has pushed him out of Dortmund's XI. Kind of ironic, as I recently read an article about Sancho, and he said he got the idea of playing in Germany from watching Pulisic, and realized that a teenager had a better shot at playing time in Germany than England, so he wanted to follow Pulisic. Now he pushed Pulisic out of a starting role and into moving to England.

I'm sort of happy to see him in England, because it is the best league and the only league I truly follow, but I am concerned about him getting playing time. I hate Chelsea, but not nearly as much as I used to, so I can get over that and root for him in Chelsea blue while still hating the team. I just worry about him succeeding in England. I can't help but think of Jozy's miserable run at Sunderland after scoring 31(?) goals in a one season in Holland. Pulisic is small, and the EPL is a much more physical league, but I don't think he will have a problem with that. I think he is mentally much more capable than Jozy was. I want to see more Americans play in the EPL, but we've seen too many careers ruined by the move.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Shirley » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Am I the only Chelsea fan on this board?

Obviously, I'm over the moon about the signing, but like others, I'm nervous about it as well. Sarri's system allows for a lot of fun offensive play and movement that fits Pulisic very well, but Chelsea does currently have 3 established players at winger (Hazard, Willian, Pedro) and one young stud (Callum Hudson-Odoi). Hudson-Odoi is already having problems getting minutes behind the others. And it seems like either Pedro or Willian is always a little grumpy at having to be the backup to the other (although both seem to play better off the bench).

For next year, my hunch is that Hazard will be staying (yes, this is what I WANT to happen) and not going to Real. Either Pedro or Willian, and maybe both, will be gone. Willian can probably demand the higher fee if they can even get a transfer fee (I don't know exactly when their contracts run out). So, it could be Hazard, Pulisic and CHO for the two wing spots next year, essentially with Pulisic and CHO being like-for-like replacements for Willian and Pedro.

I agree with Chedda about Kante not being used in his best position in Sarri's 4-3-3. But there just is no defensive midfielder role in his lineup and Sarri seems pretty inflexible about that. On the other hand, Kante is starting to get more comfortable up front and even scored a nice goal last weekend.

I hope the theory is right that Dortmund was being cautious with Pulisic's minutes so they could sell him healthy. I want him to play more and get ready for next year. Just don't get hurt!
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Rex » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 am

I'm rooting for them to qualify for Champions League, since yesterday. How is it going?

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by A_B » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:43 am

Rex wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 am
I'm rooting for them to qualify for Champions League, since yesterday. How is it going?
Nah. Super sub gonna get Man U to the 4th spot at least. Too poetic not to happen.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Shirley » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:14 am

Rex wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 am
I'm rooting for them to qualify for Champions League, since yesterday. How is it going?
They played like crap in a tie against Southampton yesterday. Still in fourth, 3 points up on Arsenal and 6 on Man U. 3 and 4 back of 2nd and third. It's a tight race this year, Liverpool excluded.

Chelsea has a ton of players dinged up right now. They've had to make injury subs in multiple times in the last couple of games. I think 2 of their 6 front line players aren't hurt.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by mister d » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:19 am

Shirley wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:14 am
It's a tight race this year, Liverpool excluded.
Serious bulletin board material here. I've now extra motivated to watch today.
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Dude got a handjob like thousands of old dudes do every day. Big whoop.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by testuser2 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:44 am

testuser2 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:47 am
Did anyone see how much PA Classics would get from the transfer if the fed didn't steal it? They are already taking over much of the youth soccer in the area and could use the big chunks of money for facility upgrades.
Found an answer
In the Pulisic case this would represent a payment of $730,000 being made to PA Classics, the youth organization Pulisic played for from 2008-2015 when he joined as a 10-year-old, and played until he was 17 and joined Borussia Dortmund.
That's a big chunk of change.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by The Sybian » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm

testuser2 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:44 am
testuser2 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:47 am
Did anyone see how much PA Classics would get from the transfer if the fed didn't steal it? They are already taking over much of the youth soccer in the area and could use the big chunks of money for facility upgrades.
Found an answer
In the Pulisic case this would represent a payment of $730,000 being made to PA Classics, the youth organization Pulisic played for from 2008-2015 when he joined as a 10-year-old, and played until he was 17 and joined Borussia Dortmund.
That's a big chunk of change.
Jesus, good for them. Seems so weird for a youth soccer program to get such a huge payout because a former player signed a huge transfer. I get how it works from the Euro model, but looking at it as an American, it seems so weird.
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mister d
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by mister d » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:19 pm

Lets just hope whoever works as their top executive gets atleast $600K of that.
Rush2112 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:46 pm
Dude got a handjob like thousands of old dudes do every day. Big whoop.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by wlu_lax6 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:51 pm

The thing about the transfer fee is how many of the clubs/academies in Europe charge players? PA Classics are $400 upon selection and then ~300/quarter before indoor/futsal, uniforms, fund raisers, and travel
http://www.paclassics.org/_files/downlo ... 8-2019.pdf

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Nonlinear FC » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:33 pm

Um guys?

The point of that article is that MLS (US Soccer) doesn't adhere to FIFA transfer fee rules. PA classics gets NOTHING from that transfer.

I've been bitching about this for years. For a variety of reasons, both structural and legal, the club that develops a player is completely cut out of the compensation. It's slightly different for players in MLS-affiliated academies, which is creating a real division in the youth club landscape.

Overall, MLS makes selling a player often not worth it because they take a sizable cut of the transfer fee AND they don't allow the transfer fee to go back into the salary budget (only $650k max). It's more complicated than that, but the upshot is that, yes, they get compensated, but REPLACING the player can be very difficult with salary restrictions.

But the main point is that PA Classics or any other club has no claim. There was a lawsuit sparked by the club that developed Deandre Yedlin that didn't go the club's way and has cemented the face that clubs aren't able to get anything for developing these players.

It's complicated, so most fans glaze over when it's even discussed (which is rare). But it's probably the biggest thing holding back US soccer on the global stage.
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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by HaulCitgo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:24 pm

I'd say the biggest thing holding us soccer back is that there isnt a path to a pot of gold. Few (male) scholarships no 9 digit contracts. Compare what Pulisic is going to get to what Mookie Betts will get. I see parents chasing dollars on the courts and fields often but it's almost always football, baseball or basketball because there are local examples in their immediate communities. Rarely if ever are there examples in soccer. Seeing rich pro guys from your school or neighborhood is a massive incentive to parents and players. If you want to breed and raise an athlete and I think that a fair amount of people are very deliberate with that, soccer is far from the optimal choice.

Don't think the economic benefits need to flow to the mechanisms that train the players. So long as the cash flows directly to the players then the players/parents/leeches will do what is necessary to get to the money. Long way of saying thr US is on the right side of this one. Maximize the cash to the players who are best able to find the best path to becoming the best player.

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Re: Pulisic to Chelsea

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:35 am

What you're saying doesn't contradict what I'm saying, it's complimentary. The bottom line right now is that neither the clubs or the individual players have the type of incentive they do in other parts of the world to enter into a system that is going to get them a transfer fee sooner rather than later. It is convoluted and when you muddy the waters, you reduce opportunity. Pretty simple.

I would also argue that even with the jacked up system we have, I can rattle off 5 players that went to my alma mater that have signed with MLS or European teams and I'm not paying nearly as much attention as the parents and kids pushing to be part of the academies or sending them to summer camps in Europe hoping to get signed. You can look at Steven Goff or Big Soccer and see over 100 players playing in Europe, not to mention the homegrown kids that get signed to academies.

I'm not sure where you live... Here in MD your statement about a lack of awareness just isn't true. It's never going to be the same thing as the notoriety of football or basketball recruiting. But, take hockey, which most ppl don't pay attention to... Believe me, the communities where it's a big deal... Everyone knows who's being recruited, who is signed with what team, etc. etc. Soccer is very similar.
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