The Swamp

So this is gonna sound really dumb, but I didn't watch a minute of either game yesterday and didn't really watch any highlights or coverage either.

So I see that replay and it looks to be like the ball should have been ruled down around the 6-inch/1 foot line. But they ruled that a fumble?

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:38 pm So this is gonna sound really dumb, but I didn't watch a minute of either game yesterday and didn't really watch any highlights or coverage either.

So I see that replay and it looks to be like the ball should have been ruled down around the 6-inch/1 foot line. But they ruled that a fumble?

ETA: I screwed this up earlier. It was called a TD on the field and then reversed to down short of the goal line. Though the Ravens returned the bouncing ball after the whistle blew.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:38 pm So this is gonna sound really dumb, but I didn't watch a minute of either game yesterday and didn't really watch any highlights or coverage either.

So I see that replay and it looks to be like the ball should have been ruled down around the 6-inch/1 foot line. But they ruled that a fumble?

No, they ruled him down by contact after review. Not that I care much, but in my view of Bronto's first video, I think the ball is floating free as he descends. It is in his hands for a split-second again as his elbow hits the turf, then it rolls free. Possession? Tough to say.

The ball is not floating free at any point. It never leaves his left hand until his arm hits the ground.



ETA you have to watch that on youtube dot com but please do if you are of the mind that this was somehow, some way a fumble. Because it was not.

Both views of the (NOT) fumble to make it clearer.

That's not a fumble.

I’m with Bronto — clearly not a fumble. Especially since the league has correctly realized that maintaining possession shouldn’t require no movement of the ball whatsoever. The Bears missed FG made it a moot point but the Eagles’ 2PC attempt was the replay review I had the most questions about. That play was really close and I think Smallwood may have broken the plane before losing the ball.

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:52 pm Both views of the fumble to make it clearer.

Thought it wasn't a fumble ; )

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:55 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:59 am

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:37 am BTW Nagy mangled the end-game there and is skating on it.

By not calling a timeout after the Eagles' first down play on their last set of downs and saving 35-40 seconds?

ETA: It appears the time out should have been after the Eagles got the first-and-goal, not after first down.

Right. Cost him about 40 seconds or so. Also thought that 3rd down shot at the endzone was insanely risky for a very small chance of a TD. Shit, if the WR catches it and gets tackled at the 3 it's probably game over.

You're right about that third down pass, too. I had no idea why Nagy didn't send Parkey out then. I was repeating "get rid of it, get rid of it" before the ball was even snapped. It would have been game over if completed. The clock stopped after the incompletion with ten seconds left and there was no way they would get lined up 25 yards downfield from the last snap in that short a time with a running clock.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:52 pm Both views of the fumble to make it clearer.

Thought it wasn't a fumble ; )

OH NO

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:41 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:38 pm So this is gonna sound really dumb, but I didn't watch a minute of either game yesterday and didn't really watch any highlights or coverage either.

So I see that replay and it looks to be like the ball should have been ruled down around the 6-inch/1 foot line. But they ruled that a fumble?

No. It was incorrectly called a fumble (that the Ravens returned for a TD) and called after review that Gordon was down by contact. And appropriately spotted the ball (unlike the play before that)

I'm honestly not sure why the fumble debate is happening.

This is why people get pissed at you, btw. I'm a reasonable person with absolutely no skin in this game, and I've watched a fuckton of football in my lifetime... That play is not cut and dry. There is a point where it appeared to come free from both hands for a split second. It absolutely may just be a trick of the eye. I'm not saying it was absolutely a fumble.

But not even close? I mean, I don't really care about it that much, so I wont say much more... But I'm not one to just hop on some issue just to talk shit about the officials or the league.

Put it to you this way, let's pretend that was a pass, and Gordon put one foot down and then had to dive forward due to his momentum. Is that a completed pass?

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:41 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:38 pm So this is gonna sound really dumb, but I didn't watch a minute of either game yesterday and didn't really watch any highlights or coverage either.

So I see that replay and it looks to be like the ball should have been ruled down around the 6-inch/1 foot line. But they ruled that a fumble?

No. It was incorrectly called a fumble (that the Ravens returned for a TD) and called after review that Gordon was down by contact. And appropriately spotted the ball (unlike the play before that)

I'm honestly not sure why the fumble debate is happening.

This is why people get pissed at you, btw.

Because I posted the video evidence that shows it's not a fumble and I said I wasn't sure why the debate was happening? Come on dude.

I'm a reasonable person with absolutely no skin in this game, and I've watched a fuckton of football in my lifetime... That play is not cut and dry. There is a point where it appeared to come free from both hands for a split second. It absolutely may just be a trick of the eye. I'm not saying it was absolutely a fumble.

Where is that point, if you don't mind me asking?

But not even close? I mean, I don't really care about it that much, so I wont say much more... But I'm not one to just hop on some issue just to talk shit about the officials or the league.

Put it to you this way, let's pretend that was a pass, and Gordon put one foot down and then had to dive forward due to his momentum. Is that a completed pass?

these are two incomparable scenarios

In the top video, I'd say around the half yard line you can question if he has control. The top hand doesn't and the bottom looks like its a pretty unnatural position if it does.

It's also imperative to note the call on the field was a TD (and not a fumble). If you're looking at that and judging if he was down by contact and short of the goal line, there's no way that gets called a fumble.

I'll also add this. After re-watching the video, I think this debate is happening because Gene Steratore convinced himself that it was a fumble. But taking Steratore out of this equation and watching the video without audio, it's impossible (to me! because I don't want to be a dick!) that you rule anything but "he was short of the end zone."

At one point, it appears to me that both hands are moving around the ball while the ball doesn’t move or change direction. If he’s gripping the ball, the ball should move with his hands.

In fact, at that point (his right foot lands, he goes completely airborne) his right hand is moving and the fingers on his left hand are all outstretched neither hand is clearly gripping the ball. When his right hand does make contact again, the ball clearly moves in his left hand. The right hand making contact forces the ball onto the turf as he lands.

I think that may be the same thing Mr. D was talking about.

I don’t think you’re a dick.

Bronto - Don't call me dude, bro.

There are multiple people in this thread questioning the call.

I shouldn't have made it personal, but you also didn't need to essentially say anyone questioning the call was being unreasonable.

/fin

Re: the conversation in here that somehow it was Jackson's fault that the Chargers bottled the Ravens up, I am just gonna leave this here and raise an eyebrow at the Ravens' coaches for the offensive problems...

https://deadspin.com/the-chargers-smoth ... in_twitter

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:35 am Bronto - Don't call me dude, bro.

There are multiple people in this thread questioning the call.

I shouldn't have made it personal, but you also didn't need to essentially say anyone questioning the call was being unreasonable.

/fin

So, to be clear, you would overturn that call from a touchdown ... but to a fumble and a touchback for the Ravens (because of the clear recovery) instead of down by contact?

Yeah, the wrong call was made on the field. But going to replay and calling that a touchback and Ravens ball is like compounding a mistake with another more egregious mistake.

Did he say he would overturn it or did he take issue with your phrasing?

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:45 pm The ball is not floating free at any point. It never leaves his left hand until his arm hits the ground.

ETA you have to watch that on youtube dot com but please do if you are of the mind that this was somehow, some way a fumble. Because it was not.

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:46 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:35 am Bronto - Don't call me dude, bro.

There are multiple people in this thread questioning the call.

I shouldn't have made it personal, but you also didn't need to essentially say anyone questioning the call was being unreasonable.

/fin

So, to be clear, you would overturn that call from a touchdown ... but to a fumble and a touchback for the Ravens (because of the clear recovery) instead of down by contact?

Yeah, the wrong call was made on the field. But going to replay and calling that a touchback and Ravens ball is like compounding a mistake with another more egregious mistake.

Not really sure why we're still "debating" this. I saw the ball moving/floating before his elbow hit the ground, you (and the refs) did not.

/fin

so that's a yes?

you know you're the kid in the box in that cartoon, right?

Yeah, that's a bit of trap, because the entire cartoon strip has the dad believing in the box being a car by the end.

It's not "is the ball moving", it's "is this ball clearly moving beyond any doubt to overturn this call". The NFL has gotten away from that standard too often.