The Swamp

Ichiro calls it a career.

My hit king.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:47 amMy hit king.

Me too. Fuck Pete Rose.

They're undefeated what is he doing?

Kerry Wood had the best in-season retirement that I can remember off the top of my head, but this one’s pretty great.

Ray Chapman?

Dusty here.

I hope they don't count this year as one of his five to wait for induction.

Might not be a bad thing given the current logjam?

They should do it when he lands

3089 career hits for a guy who showed up when he was 27. Remember Rob Dibble tooling on him? Here was Dibble's mea culpa:

http://www.espn.com/talent/danpatrick/s ... 59399.html

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:17 am Might not be a bad thing given the current logjam?

Eh. The bonds/clemens shit will be over one way or another by then, right? How many guys retired in the last couple of years that are really going to have good cases? Jeter will be first ballot. Same for Ortiz. Hopefully Beltre. A Rod will be weird. Beltran will get in. Mauer, Utley will have good cases.

But there's not going to be a whole lot of guys with even middling cases by then. A lot of guys will not make it more than a couple of ballots so I don't think there will be anywhere near the logjam there is now even in four years.

I am from Baltimore but Ichiro's substitution in the 8th retirement > Cal doing a victory lap at Camden when he broke the record (but not better than the way the O's closed Memorial Stadium --- the fake home plate move to Camden Yards). Just a great way to go out.

Also really liked Griffy's cut as the ceremonial batsman.

And...sometimes baseball is just weird...way too much time in the sport for people to do nothing but b.s.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/mike-trout-wan ... baby-trout

He's first ballot no matter when his five years are up. Anyone who doesn't vote for him should be pilloried.

Rank 'em:

Carew
Boggs
Ichiro
Gwynn

Before I do any deep dig, I'm going to say my first instinct is that three of those four were great but overrated and one might be underrated.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:53 am Rank 'em:

Carew
Boggs
Ichiro
Gwynn

OOF.

It will probably show our age in most cases

Gwynn
Ichiro (slight lean because of defense)
Boggs
Carew(just don't remember his career at all)

My brain probably didn't adjust for era but I'm sticking with "Boggs is a tier above".

I had what AB had, though I think if you're accounting for defense probably have to put Ichiro over Gwynn.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:58 am I had what AB had, though I think if you're accounting for defense probably have to put Ichiro over Gwynn.

I went and looked and the BA disparity was just too much. Dont @ me

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:57 am My brain probably didn't adjust for era but I'm sticking with "Boggs is a tier above".

RACIST.

Which player would I want for their actual MLB career?

Boggs
Carew
Gwynn
Ichiro

I would add Vladamir Guerrero just a bit below those four.

Swung at everything and hit everything to a .317 career average.

Vlad is a good example of where I feel Ichiro and especially Gwynn get wildly overrated. Vlad is, effectively, Gwynn with power.

Unless someone signs Bartolo Colon, it's pretty cool that Ichiro will be the last professional athlete I ever see play that was older than me.

Golfers are athletes!

Carew first. He was so dominant in the early 70s. He stole home seventeen times. (Seven times in 1969). He won the batting title six times in seven years in the 1970s. Five straight years of being in the top 15 in MVP voting. Among the career leaders for both the Twins and Angels in such disparate categories as intentional walks and on-base percentage and stolen bases (Twins). Was one of the players who stood up to the owners over collusion that occurred in 1986.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:22 am Unless someone signs Bartolo Colon, it's pretty cool that Ichiro will be the last professional athlete I ever see play that was older than me.

Not sure how you feel about kickers, but Adam Vinatieri was born 12/28/72, so he has 2 years on me.

ETA: Unless you're talking live. I feel bad I never got to see Ichiro in the flesh.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:05 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:22 am Unless someone signs Bartolo Colon, it's pretty cool that Ichiro will be the last professional athlete I ever see play that was older than me.

Not sure how you feel about kickers, but Adam Vinatieri was born 12/28/72, so he has 2 years on me.

ETA: Unless you're talking live. I feel bad I never got to see Ichiro in the flesh.

I guess Vinateri is older than me, but I don't know about counting kickers. And I guess there's no guarantee he plays this year (though it's likely)

I felt old last year when Martin St. Louis was elected to the Hockey HoF, and all four Halls had players younger than me.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:21 am Vlad is a good example of where I feel Ichiro and especially Gwynn get wildly overrated. Vlad is, effectively, Gwynn with power.

I'm curious as to why (Gwynn) you think this way?

I mean, who thinks he's anything more than say the 45th-50th greatest position player in baseball history?

More relative comps, I guess? I’ve always assumed people think he’s a tier one player of my lifetime on the level of Rickey and Brett when I’d say he’s sub-Raines and Walker. Maybe I’m misjudging his status?

east coast bias.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:32 pm More relative comps, I guess? I’ve always assumed people think he’s a tier one player of my lifetime on the level of Rickey and Brett when I’d say he’s sub-Raines and Walker. Maybe I’m misjudging his status?

Rickey Henderson (to me) is a top 20 position player. Brett's probably top 40. Walker's probably a tick above Raines and Gwynn (and that's if you ignore the 14 story elephant in Larry's room), but no, Raines wasn't demonstrably better than Tony.

The fact we are a bunch of east coast box score junkies to even know how good Gwynn was says it all. Few of us saw Gwynn play so we relied on numbers. He was good.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:58 pm The fact we are a bunch of east coast box score junkies to even know how good Gwynn was says it all. Few of us saw Gwynn play so we relied on numbers. He was good.

During summer breaks from my later years in college(93-94) I'd go back home to Palm Beach Gardens, and I'd head down to Miami to see maybe 5-6 games a summer. Don't think I saw the Padres. I'd bet my left nut I've seen them at OPCY though. After Gwynn, of course.

My impression of Gwynn now versus when I was 10 is absolutely different but I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. After he stopped running, I don’t think there was anything above average except batting average. Granted, that was elite and rightfully carried him to the HoF, I’d just say it leaves him below the more complete stars.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:09 pm
I guess Vinatieri is older than me, but I don't know about counting kickers. And I guess there's no guarantee he plays this year (though it's likely)

he signed for 2019, so you're safe for this year

eta: this discussion is spawning my thoughts on jersey-wearing as I get older. I only wear soccer jerseys anymore anyway, so it's kinda a moot point for me, but I don't think that guys should be wearing the jerseys of athletes 20 years younger than them

Agreed. Its weird.

I don't think guys should wearing anything designed by people 20 years younger than them

(Jack Fila is old, right?)