The WTF America's Cup Thread

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:53 am

That crossed my mind, but I had no idea if boats can take a dive.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:03 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:Wow. Oracle is finding form and with the back against the wall winning. 8-5 on the scoreboard, 8-7 in actual races. I still expect the cup to go to the land of Sheep and Sailboats. Skeptical wlu_lax6 wonders if some of this "run" by Oracle is based on the need for this to not be a blowout so San Fran does not get crushed in bad press from this. I find it less hard to believe NZ taking a dive because the money involved.

No way is NZ tanking. The stakes are too high, and these guys have been working towards this for years. The AC is the pinnacle of sailing....no way do the NZ guys want to be the team that has an epic collapse like this would be.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Boats traded paint on the start today, foul called on NZ and Oracle/USA granted a lead on the restart. Two lead changes since, this is pretty exciting halfway through the race. NZ up 8-7, nine wins it.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:06 am

It is all tied up. 8-8. Only twice before in the 162-year history of the America’s Cup has there been a winner-take-all final race, in 1920 and 1983. In 1920 the defender won and in ’83 the challenger won.

1:15 PM West Coast time. One of the greatest comebacks in sports.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:16 am

Also Larry E blew off the keynote speach at Oracle's conference to watch the races and let other execs present.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:50 am

I don't know that they did to the boat, but Oracle has tweaked something to get better upwind boat speed. And Spithill is totally in Dean Barker's head now, and is getting great starts.

Today is going to be insane. If Barker loses this, he may have to go into exile somewhere.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:51 am

Is this televised anywhere?

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:08 pm

govmentchedda wrote:Is this televised anywhere?

NBC Sports Network.

If you don't get that, you can watch live coverage on YouTube. But its blocked if you are in the US. To get around that, follow these instructions (lifted from the SailingAnarchy forum):

DOWNLOAD CHROME, THEN INSTALL THE "HOLA" EXTENSION< WHICH PROXIES YOUR BROWSER. ONCE INSTALLED< SWITCH YOUR COUNTRY LOCATION TO SAY, GBR, VIA THE LITTLE FIREBALL LOGO IN YOUR BROWSER UPPER RIGHT. THEN REFRESH YOUTUBE PAGE AND SHAZAAAM YOU'RE IN!

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:10 pm

I just watched the highlights from yesterday, and wow....did ETNZ gack on the second race. They had a clear lead, and tried to do a "leebow" tack, and just got rolled by Oracle. Bad tactical decision, and then the tack was slow, and Oracle just blasted away from them.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:23 pm

One side story that is going on with this race. As soon as the race is over, the first "valid" challenge with the winner will be the challenger of record. In previous races they hide the commodore of the sailing club away so that the first official challenge can be orchestrated (i.e. defender can pick the challenger of record as the two of them negotiate the rules). I wonder if there is already an agreement between Oracle and NZ to "run it back" for the next go around.

There was talk at that the Soviets may be lining up a challenge for the next race (they have some folks who can afford it) and some talk of them hosting (don't have to host in the home country--i.e. Swiss racing in Spain last go around).

Post by **brian** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:40 pm

USA! USA! U....oh hell, I can't pretend like I give a shit about yachting.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:48 pm

Fuck Larry Ellison.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:13 pm

howard wrote:Fuck Larry Ellison.

This....a million times over.

I really thought ETNZ had it won when Oracle went bow down right at the first mark. But Oracle really fixed something to get that good upwind boat speed (the guys I was watching with were talking about that they changed the pitch angle on the foils). Glad for Jimmy Spithill (nice guy....I met him at Melges24 Worlds back in 2005), and I feel bad for Dean Barker. To be that close, and then not win? Gutting...

What's next? Who knows. I would be surprised if ETNZ can muster another challenge. Will they do the AC72's again? Will it be back in San Francisco? Who will be the Challenger of Record? (I've heard Artemis). Bring on the lawyers!

vandwagon · Post by **vandwagon** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:43 am

I didn't watch a ton of the coverage, but enjoyed what I did see. I thought the commentators did well for folks like me with no sailing experience.

I was talking to a co-worker this morning who sails and I hadn't realized that the boats were on one hydrofoil when they were up like that. What I thougt were other hydrofoils were actually the rudders.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:52 am

I am guessing smaller boats for the next go around. Specifically with ways to reduce costs off the water.
I think we will continue to see the AC Series races because Larry likes boat races.
I think the smaller boats of this style will be in play because it makes a good show, the sailors like sailing them, and it would be a "step back" in engineering.
We won't see a defender series --us boats racing to see who will defend the cup (which has happened in the past). This was a big factor in why Larry E and the Blue Collar Golden Gate Yacht club got together instead of the other upper crusty yacht club next door (which was ultimately taken over by Golden Gate).
San Fran won't be a shoe in to host. Too many hurt feelings between Larry and the city. Promises made, Promises broken on both sides. Great setting but I expect Oracle will use moving the race to Rhode Island, LA, or San Diego to get the best deal possible from San Fran.

and there will be lawsuits...

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:55 am

brian wrote:USA! USA! U....oh hell, I can't pretend like I give a shit about yachting.

Yay, we're the best at boats

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:00 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:…instead of the other upper crusty yacht club next door (which was ultimately taken over by Golden Gate).

I did not know that. Now, if the rest of society can emulate.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:11 pm

Did Golden Gate overtake the snooty next door neighbor club? The NYT article didn't mention that.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:18 pm

howard wrote:Fuck Larry Ellison.

The SF Chronic had a really interesting article yesterday. It was peripherally about the race, but mainly about what it's like to be Larry friggin' Ellison. Very interesting read. Here is an excerpt:

...One can only imagine living in Ellison’s world. He is the fifth-richest man in the world, worth more than $41 billion, according to Forbes Magazine. His primary residence is a sprawling Japanese-style compound in Woodside. He also owns a massive home in Pacific Heights, along with countless others around the globe. He has three yachts, each bigger than the next. He bought the Hawaiian island of Lanai last year.

He also happens to be an accomplished sailor, having won some of the world’s most prestigious regattas, including a near-fatal experience in the famed Sydney-to-Hobart race. Ellison sailed through a hurricane on that journey and came through as the winner.

When he’s not sailing, he has been one of the world’s most ruthless businessmen. Over the course of the past 10 years, he has consolidated the database-software world with cold efficiency, buying competitors such as PeopleSoft whether they liked it or not. Before that, back in the 1970s and ’80s, he revolutionized the world by pioneering relational databases. Many of his contemporaries from that era – Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Scott McNealy – have come and gone.

Ellison is still headlining conventions, with thousands waiting to hear him speak.

On Tuesday afternoon, they waited in vain. Although he was scheduled to give the keynote address at his convention, which attendees pay around $3,000 to attend, Ellison decided to stay on his chase boat and watch the second race of the America’s Cup. He was rewarded by seeing his team win what many are calling the greatest race in sailing history.

And so it goes for Ellison, a man who actually can say he’s the most interesting man in the world, without a beer in his hand...(more)

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:32 pm

govmentchedda wrote:Did Golden Gate overtake the snooty next door neighbor club? The NYT article didn't mention that.

I thought they did, but that maybe something I misread from in the Book I reference in the first post of the thread. The fancy club is the St. Francis Yacht Club. The Golden Gate Yacht Club was falling apart when they cut a deal with Larry Ellison. The commodore of the club when they made the deal was an auto mechanic (whose dad --an early member did not like the deal and quit the club). The club was founded on a barge.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Ellison got his start with a government handout. He was employed by one of the spy agencies (sorry, I don't remember if it was CIA or NSA). They basically sponsored his going private with the work he had done as a government employee.

Another MF born on third base (in the business/entrepreneurial sense) thinking he hit a triple.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:15 am

Wiseacre sez, ORACLE is an acronym. One Real Asshole Called Larry Ellison.

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:25 am

sancarlos wrote:
howard wrote:Fuck Larry Ellison.
The SF Chronic had a really interesting article yesterday. It was peripherally about the race, but mainly about what it's like to be Larry friggin' Ellison. Very interesting read.

'He might be an asshole, but he's our asshole' seems to be a common theme in SF.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:50 am

Wait, that was Big Head Barry's title!

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:59 am

wlu_lax6 wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:Did Golden Gate overtake the snooty next door neighbor club? The NYT article didn't mention that.
I thought they did, but that maybe something I misread from in the Book I reference in the first post of the thread. The fancy club is the St. Francis Yacht Club. The Golden Gate Yacht Club was falling apart when they cut a deal with Larry Ellison. The commodore of the club when they made the deal was an auto mechanic (whose dad --an early member did not like the deal and quit the club). The club was founded on a barge.

I'm certain that St Francis Yacht Club wasn't taken over by GGYC. St Francis is the truly upper-crust club. Ellison was negotiating with them to be the sponsoring club, and when that went sideways, GGYC stepped in.

From what I've read, GGYC was something like $450,000 in the red, and having the 100+ new memberships from all the Oracle guys joining is what saved them. GGYC is a pretty small club, with a really small clubhouse. No food service, and I think the bar only has something like 5 bar stools. Whereas the SFYC is enormous, with 2 restaurants, and a huge bar.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:43 pm

So just read in the NY Times that on 12/2 Team Oracle will announce that it will defend the America's cup by hosting the event in Bermuda. San Fran was not offering as good deal as last time so it came down to San Diego or Bermuda. Apparently the tax haven nature of Bermuda is considered better than San Diego. However, this may impact some teams willing to participate (Kiwis). Guess small island is not as interesting as sailing in the US proper.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:25 pm

Cool pictures of GB boat
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-mi ... nes-2016-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:12 pm

Oracle's little version of the boat is now going as fast as the last America's Cup big boat.
http://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-m ... peed-gains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:23 am

A family friend is going to France to attempt to qualify for Rio paralympics. He sails an opti.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:28 am

govmentchedda wrote:A family friend is going to France to attempt to qualify for Rio paralympics. He sails an opti.

That's cool...opti's are tough little boats.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:33 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:A family friend is going to France to attempt to qualify for Rio paralympics. He sails an opti.
That's cool...opti's are tough little boats.

Kid is a bad ass. My wife has been his speech therapist for almost 7 years. As his mom put it in the fundraising site, "Kevin was in a bicycle vs auto accident, the speeding van won." He suffered a TBI, and has slowly worked his way back to competition. He won the 4.7 Laser Midwinters when he was 14 (whatever that means). He's now 21 or 22, and if he comes in as first American at the regatta in Hyeres, France he'll head to Rio for the paralympics.

My kids went to his fundraiser at the local yacht club and they are ready to give it a try. My kids don't like to try anything, so I'm hoping they love it. They certainly have a good role model to follow.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed May 04, 2016 11:59 am

They are racing right off Manhattan this weekend. Hope they don't hit this guy

http://www.businessinsider.com/americas ... tch-2016-4

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:06 pm

My boys started sailing camp this week, and true to form, the middle one melted down about trying anything new. After a few days of push back, he came around, and both boys went out in an opti on their own and sailed out and around a buoy that had to be at least .25 miles away. Pretty impressed with them for not giving up, and working together. They generally just antagonize and pound on each other.

Also, Kevin did not make the paralympics. He competed well in Hyeres, but only one American made it to Brazil.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:31 am

govmentchedda wrote: Also, Kevin did not make the paralympics. He competed well in Hyeres, but only one American made it to Brazil.

That's the way Olympic qualifying works...only one boat per country per event.

I have a friend who won the Silver Medal in the Star Boat in Barcelona. He's told me that the Olympic qualifying regatta was FAR more nerve-wracking then the actual Olympics.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:28 am

So the teams agree to boat designs for the next 2 America's cup. But what is most interesting is that this makes the America's cup a 2-year cycle, not 4 year. It also brings the costs down to ~30-40 Million for a team.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-cu ... 1485383406

Side note: Maybe a Dave In Seattle has some input. I am going to be in Bermuda about a month before the event starts. Figure the teams will be fully setup by then but the Village won't be open. Any thoughts on what to look for/do to expose my family to the event?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:51 am

New Zealand getting funky with their "Grinding" for the America's cup. Interesting to see if this gives them an advantage on the sails.
http://www.bicycling.com/racing/preview ... p-by-storm

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:36 am

2 days until this F1-style stadium racing kicks off

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed May 24, 2017 1:37 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:New Zealand getting funky with their "Grinding" for the America's cup. Interesting to see if this gives them an advantage on the sails.
http://www.bicycling.com/racing/preview ... p-by-storm

I'm very skeptical about this. There have been other big racing boats that have tried to do the "pedal-grind" setup, and it never works out.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed May 24, 2017 3:12 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:New Zealand getting funky with their "Grinding" for the America's cup. Interesting to see if this gives them an advantage on the sails.
http://www.bicycling.com/racing/preview ... p-by-storm
I'm very skeptical about this. There have been other big racing boats that have tried to do the "pedal-grind" setup, and it never works out.

Oracle was apparently giving it a try
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11857729

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:48 pm

Oracle won the preliminary round qualifier and as a result will start the final up 1-0.

Semi finals are under way
New Zealand (Emirates) is up 2-0 over Great Britain (Land Rover) and Japan (SoftBank)up 1-0 on the Sweeds (Artemis).