The Swamp

Well Aussie Aussie Aussie Oh Oh Oh Dave called it. In one of the previous swamps Dave said someone was going to die racing these boats. Well yesterday Artemis racing capsized their boat with fatal consequences. An Olympic gold medal and silver medal winner (star class) was killed and another racer was injured. Actually pretty amazing that only 2 sailor have been killed in America's cup racing sine 1851


Also interesting new book that I think I am going to pickup.

Fucking sucks. What a waste. Yeah, those boats are cool, but they are just too dangerous. They'd be bad enough just as 72 foot cats, but foiling as well? Just insane.

The word is that the carbon fiber of the forward beam cracked, which caused the failure. Just a disaster. I don't see how Artemis continues after this. I've emailed with a couple of friends who knew the guy, Andrew "Bart" Simpson, and they both said that he was the "glue" of that program. Just an incredible sailor, and a great guy.

If Artemis does drop out, that would leave only 2 challenger programs (ETNZ and Prada) as challengers, vying to go against Oracle in the Cup Finals. Not exactly what Ellison and Coutts had envisioned, I'm sure.

So are the other teams just not going to get the big boats in the race? I thought there were some others lined up to challenge?
Team China
Energy Team (French)
Team Korea
HS Racing

wlu_lax6 wrote:So are the other teams just not going to get the big boats in the race? I thought there were some others lined up to challenge?
Team China
Energy Team (French)
Team Korea
HS Racing

The other teams were doing the AC45 series of races, but didn't have the funding for building the AC72's.

There have only been 50 days of sailing on the AC72's (all the syndicates combined) and there's been 2 catastrophic accidents and one death. Not good at all. And that's just out practicing....can't imagine having two of those things out on the water racing each other.

I was watching a Giants game on Wednesday, and they showed the Oracle/USA boat. I commented to my friend that someone was gonna die on one of those. See, I ain't no expert--I just parrot the smart people around me, and they make me look smart.

Good article for us neophytes. From Wired:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/am ... oat-crash/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the challengers start racing this week. Lots of talk about the financial impact to San Fran because so few boats are racing (3 instead of the anticipated 15).

First point of the Louie was "earned today". The Kiwis sailed the course and Luna Rossa decided not to. They are protesting something or other (I think it has to do with required safety equipment) and waiting on the international race jury to decide.

wlu_lax6 wrote:First point of the Louie was "earned today". The Kiwis sailed the course and Luna Rossa decided not to. They are protesting something or other (I think it has to do with required safety equipment) and waiting on the international race jury to decide.

They changed the rule for the rudder design 2 weeks. After the Artemis accident, the Regatta Director proposed 37 rule changes, supposedly for safety purposes. Luna Rosa and ETNZ agreed to 35 of them (rule changes have to be approved by all syndicates) but contend that 2 of the rules are for boat speed, not safety reasons.

Biggest fiasco in Cup history. And considering the crap that's gone on the past, that's saying something. An International Jury is going to rule on the whole thing on Monday.

AussieDave wrote:

wlu_lax6 wrote:First point of the Louie was "earned today". The Kiwis sailed the course and Luna Rossa decided not to. They are protesting something or other (I think it has to do with required safety equipment) and waiting on the international race jury to decide.

They changed the rule for the rudder design 2 weeks. After the Artemis accident, the Regatta Director proposed 37 rule changes, supposedly for safety purposes. Luna Rosa and ETNZ agreed to 35 of them (rule changes have to be approved by all syndicates) but contend that 2 of the rules are for boat speed, not safety reasons.

Biggest fiasco in Cup history. And considering the crap that's gone on the past, that's saying something. An International Jury is going to rule on the whole thing on Monday.

Bigger than the last go around when the defender made up a new yacht club to be the challenger so they could rig the rules (including determining who could race, who got ejected from the race, and the make up of the jury). That one went all the way up to the New York Supreme Court based on the definition of "having"

So on Saturday they actually had boats sail against each other (NZ won by 5 minutes over the Italians)

Interestingly, the Italian boat sailed 1376 meters (0.74 nautical miles) further than the New Zealand boat over the length of the race, and most of this extra distance came on the upwind legs.

wlu_lax6 wrote:So on Saturday they actually had boats sail against each other (NZ won by 5 minutes over the Italians)

Interestingly, the Italian boat sailed 1376 meters (0.74 nautical miles) further than the New Zealand boat over the length of the race, and most of this extra distance came on the upwind legs.

I would guess that they were taking what's called "flyers" because they were already behind. You are already losing, and you know that sailing the same course as the other boat won't help you, so you sail off the other direction hoping for an advantageous wind shift.

With the death, and now so few ships racing, the Bay Area interest in this event has waned considerably. I'm hearing it's going to be a financial bath for the City.

sancarlos wrote:With the death, and now so few ships racing, the Bay Area interest in this event has waned considerably. I'm hearing it's going to be a financial bath for the City.

The book I referenced above talked about the negotiation between the city and Team Oracle. Sounds like a first the deal was going to be very favorable to Oracle and then San Fran pushed back and then it went back towards Oracle, but Larry eased back on much of his land development ideas (top notch private school with sailing team..lots of scholarships). As Aussie Dave said, Larry pushed too hard. Had they gone with the 42s instead of the 72s, it would have been an amazing event.

With only 3 teams challenging the 5 round robins don't matter. 2 will faceoff against 3 in the Semis for the right to face 1 in the LV. Only then does Oracle get to race.

So Artemis can go home. NZ v. Italians for a shot at Oracle in the LV Finals.

Oracle's cheating won't attract Cup fans

San Francisco knows how to throw a party. This fiasco is fortunately a rare misstep.

I'm trying to think of any sport, any competition really, where the game was designed around specific equipment but is now utterly unrecognizable. There is none. Those certainly aren't fishing boats. Or even pleasure craft. That's no Bluenose. No schooner. No cutter. No, they are designed specifically for these races and these races only. Those "boats" have no other purpose whatsoever.

It's not a sporting competition. It's a science fair.

You'd think that would be attractive in geeky San Francisco.

I think the list is bigger than you think.
F1
Drag Racing
NASCAR
Thoroughbred breeding/racing
Bull riding/breeding
Lawn Mower Racing
Some of the guns they use in Olympic shooting events
Pumpkin Chunkin (Lewes, DE)



The difference is they have more than one event...except the last one.Ellison really wants/wanted America's Cup to be like F1. That is why the last two years they have been barnstorming around the world using the smaller version boats (with more teams).

I didn't really express that well, I suppose. A NASCAR still looks like a NASCAR; granted, the engineering has advanced tremendously. A horse still looks like a horse. Those craft racing in America's Cup right now are a far cry from, say, Courageous.

Another way to put it would be as a question. Has another sport seen visible equipment changes (or developments, if you will) anywhere nearly as dramatic as sailing?

Tennis Racquets



Lacrosse Equipment/Sticks





I think the evolution from single hull to tris/cats is not as drastic as you think. I mean Dennis Connor raced a Cat years ago in the America's cup (against a single hull and crushed the competition).

ETNZ went bow down going around a mark on Sunday, and lost 2 crew members over the side. They were quickly recovered by the support boats.

Usually in yacht racing, the rules are you have to finish with the same people you started with. I guess they've changed those in the Race Instructions.

That does not look like any kind of fun.

Or a boat.

I had no idea these boats were so damn fast. 36-38 knots.

Cool article on the host yacht club. I was asked to join and actually considered it way back in the day, despite having zero interest or experience sailing; $25 a month with an honor bar was a good deal.

In San Francisco, It’s Rich Club, Poor Club

ETA: My goodness, the bay and city look beautiful.

howard wrote:I had no idea these boats were so damn fast. 36-38 knots.

Cool article on the host yacht club. I was asked to join and actually considered it way back in the day, despite having zero interest or experience sailing; $25 a month with an honor bar was a good deal.

In San Francisco, It’s Rich Club, Poor Club

ETA: My goodness, the bay and city look beautiful.

The book I reference at the top talks all about the yacht club and its leadership. Very cool story, interesting characters.

Yep, the Mechanic is mentioned in the article. I knew I'd heard about the book somewhere.

Oracle/USA snatched an early lead. Coughed it up.

That is all I comprehend. And the fog/beautiful camera shots are making me homesick.

ETA: 28 sec margin at the finish. Trimmed from losses by 32 sec and 52 sec yesterday (but a bit less wind today). Fourth race coming up in a few; NZ leads 3-0, needs six more results.

When we were watching some of NZ/Italy last month, my wife asked "When did they start using flying boats?" Hard to blame her; at that moment, both teams were more foiled up than the Hanson brothers and neither boat had a hull near the water.

The television coverage has been tremendous. At least to this landlubber.

Scottie wrote:…both teams were more foiled up than the Hanson brothers

nice one.

This stuff is pretty cool. 25 knt wind/peak speeds 42 knts. Oracle on the board, takes race #4.

Oracle penalized two points before the races started, effectively down zero to negative two. Since then, Emirates New Zealand has taken three races, Oracle USA one. Score: 3 to negative 1, first to nine wins.

(or, NZ needs nine to win, has scored three; Oracle needs eleven to win, has scored one.)

Big shake up coming for Oracle. Tactician John Kostecki was not on the boat yesterday for practice, and it looks like Ben Ainslie will be replacing him. Kostecki is getting killed for calling for a "foiling tack" in race 5, which killed all of Oracle's boat speed and let ETNZ take the lead.

From what I've been reading, one of the issues is that the Oracle boat is laid out so that the tactician needs to grind the jib on tacks, which takes him out of position and distracts him from the race situation. ETNZ has a self-tacking jib, so the Tactician doesn't have to grind.

I get distracted when I grind my jib. If the phone or doorbell rings.

I found it interesting their was a "hey we want to postpone a race" option that each team can use one time.

I'd like one of those for real life. Like maybe one per year--'just stop', and come back in two days.

It's official....Kostecki out, Ainslie in as Tactician on Oracle.

DaveInSeattle wrote:Big shake up coming for Oracle. Tactician John Kostecki was not on the boat yesterday for practice, and it looks like Ben Ainslie will be replacing him. Kostecki is getting killed for calling for a "foiling tack" in race 5, which killed all of Oracle's boat speed and let ETNZ take the lead.

From what I've been reading, one of the issues is that the Oracle boat is laid out so that the tactician needs to grind the jib on tacks, which takes him out of position and distracts him from the race situation. ETNZ has a self-tacking jib, so the Tactician doesn't have to grind.

Bring it Ben, that multiple gold medal winning experience in a tiny one man boat should really help....

ETNZ might lap Oracle in today's second race. Destroyed on upwind leg (3); cruising to the final mark, 1000 meter lead (>40 seconds). Another beautiful day on the bay.

Two more wins for the Kiwis. 6 to negative 1, three more to win.

howard wrote:ETNZ might lap Oracle in today's second race. Destroyed on upwind leg (3); cruising to the final mark, 1000 meter lead (>40 seconds). Another beautiful day on the bay.

Two more wins for the Kiwis. 6 to negative 1, three more to win.

I managed to catch some of the first race today on YouTube. Oracle is dog slow going upwind. Obvious design mistake with the boat.

Its too bad...San Francisco is a spectacular location to have this event. Too bad Uncle Larry screwed things up so badly...

Can't he just, like, buy the Kiwi's boat today?

Wow. Oracle is finding form and with the back against the wall winning. 8-5 on the scoreboard, 8-7 in actual races. I still expect the cup to go to the land of Sheep and Sailboats. Skeptical wlu_lax6 wonders if some of this "run" by Oracle is based on the need for this to not be a blowout so San Fran does not get crushed in bad press from this. I find it less hard to believe NZ taking a dive because the money involved.