Notre Dame

[EdRomero]

They've saved a lot of the artwork etc.

Looks like the organ is destroyed though, which is a really big deal.

[Pruitt]

It really is a terrible, terrible thing.

[Square Rob]

My French friends are absolutely devastated. It’s a huge cultural touchstone for them, even for the non-Catholics. Only comparable thing would be if the Louvre burned.

I go to France a couple times a year for work, but have avoided doing any sightseeing in Paris until my wife can come with me. As a lover of both history and architecture, I go to every cathedral I can, and have been known to just spend hours in one sitting and watching the change in the light. So the FIRST place I wanted to go with her was Notre Dame. Just awful seeing that yesterday.

Jerloma, that’s the history part that is heartbreaking for me. The glass in the rose window was made by craftsmen in the 13th century! Glass! One of the most fragile things we make. Glass that survived 700 years of Gallic/European war, the French Revolution, and two world wars! Those facts are astonishing to me, and it tears me apart that I will never get to sit in the same light. Yes, they will rebuild, but it won’t be the same glass, the same wood, etc.

I had the same sense of anguish seeing the pictures of what isis has done with the historic structures in the Levant even if I never planned to go. It fills me with an overwhelming sense of loss and existential sorrow.

[Square Rob]

Well holy shit, it looks like the rose window survived. That’s amazing!

[tennbengal]

Probably a good thing they didn't drop 700 tons of water on the cathedral then...

[The Sybian]

Probably a good thing they didn't drop 700 tons of water on the cathedral then...

Sure, Trump's idea would have crushed and destroyed everything, but he would have put out the fire faster! I can't wait for Trump Watch Repairs. Bring in your watch because the hands stopped moving, he smashes it with a sledge hammer and says, "now you don't have a watch, I solved your problem. Nobody could imagine a problem solver as fast as me!"

[mister d]

Now if he could only solve the problem of him in the white house!!!

[The Sybian]

Now if he could only solve the problem of him in the white house!!!

A sledgehammer could work.

[duff]

Now if he could only solve the problem of him in the white house!!!

A sledgehammer could work.

Or dropping 700 tons of water on it to put out the dumpster fire.

[degenerasian]

Salma Hayeks husband donates 90 million euros.

[Johnnie]

Salma Hayeks husband donates 90 million euros.

I know I shouldn't go "there a gross amount of money that should be spent on other things," but that's a gross amount of money that should be spent on other things.

[rass]

Like preserving Salma for future generations.

[A_B]

Salma Hayeks husband donates 90 million euros.

I know I shouldn't go "there a gross amount of money that should be spent on other things," but that's a gross amount of money that should be spent on other things.

I got no problem with it.

[mister d]

I think Johnnie's right overall but I also think this is probably better use than like 97% of all billionaire dollars spent so its hard to call out.

[A_B]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans. There is no building that would cause such mourning just because of a fire. But that building is as important to France as anything, and possibly THE most culturally important building. So I get why people would want to restore it, and it's better for the money to come from private parties than the government.

[mister d]

Its like Marky Mark personally rebuilding Fenway.

[Pruitt]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans. There is no building that would cause such mourning just because of a fire. But that building is as important to France as anything, and possibly THE most culturally important building. So I get why people would want to restore it, and it's better for the money to come from private parties than the government.

And in North America it'd be called something like "The Invesco Cathedral at Notre Dame"

And on top of private parties and the French government, isn't there a large and ridiculously wealthy organization that could contribute to the rebuilding?

[The Sybian]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans. There is no building that would cause such mourning just because of a fire. But that building is as important to France as anything, and possibly THE most culturally important building. So I get why people would want to restore it, and it's better for the money to come from private parties than the government.

And in North America it'd be called something like "The Invesco Cathedral at Notre Dame"

And on top of private parties and the French government, isn't there a large and ridiculously wealthy organization that could contribute to the rebuilding?

Funny, but they need that for legal fees. If only the snowflakes would stop suing because they were raped by priests when they were children.

[Square Rob]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans.

I was thinking about this. Liberty Hall, maybe? Statue of Liberty (obviously not burned but seriously damaged somehow)? White House already got burned down once, so it doesn’t necessarily count. We just don’t have buildings with that long of a history.

[degenerasian]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans.

I was thinking about this. Liberty Hall, maybe? Statue of Liberty (obviously not burned but seriously damaged somehow)? White House already got burned down once, so it doesn’t necessarily count. We just don’t have buildings with that long of a history.

And also the buildings here were built by Europeans so they're probably replicas of something older.

Like if the Notre Dame Cathedral in any other french colony burned down, it would be sad but not like the original.

[brian]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans.

I was thinking about this. Liberty Hall, maybe? Statue of Liberty (obviously not burned but seriously damaged somehow)? White House already got burned down once, so it doesn’t necessarily count. We just don’t have buildings with that long of a history.

The original McDonalds or Starbucks burning down?

[Baloney]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans.

I was thinking about this. Liberty Hall, maybe? Statue of Liberty (obviously not burned but seriously damaged somehow)? White House already got burned down once, so it doesn’t necessarily count. We just don’t have buildings with that long of a history.

The original McDonalds or Starbucks burning down?

I mourned the Original Hooters when they tore 90% of is down

[DaveInSeattle]

I don't think there's even a close analog for Americans.

I was thinking about this. Liberty Hall, maybe? Statue of Liberty (obviously not burned but seriously damaged somehow)? White House already got burned down once, so it doesn’t necessarily count. We just don’t have buildings with that long of a history.

The original McDonalds or Starbucks burning down?

With the way things are in Seattle currently, if the first Starbucks burned down, construction of a soul-less, overpriced condo building would begin before the ashes were even cool.



Amazing to find a picture of the first Starbucks that doesn't have a line of Asian tourists out the front door.

[Sabo]

With the way things are in Seattle currently, if the first Starbucks burned down, construction of a soul-less, overpriced condo building would begin before the ashes were even cool.



Amazing to find a picture of the first Starbucks that doesn't have a line of Asian tourists out the front door.

But of course, there's a hipster with a mandolin busking out front. Give and take.

[Johnnie]

[wlu_lax6]

The US has had the equivalent pretty recently. After the earthquake near Richmond, it shutdown the Washington Monument from visitors because it was damaged. I think the same guy gave some funds for the Memorial Bridge in DC (which was falling apart so much the Army 10 miler was rerouted because they were afraid the runners would cause it to collapse).

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46050494/ns/u ... LY9C-hKjb0

[HaulCitgo]

Statute of liberty.

[Johnnie]

The Golden Gate bridge for me. I'd fucking cry.

[L-Jam3]

Arlington National Cemetery for me is the most sacred place in America. Although it’s pretty safe from a catastrophic loss save a meteor, earthquake, or nuke hitting it.

[Johnnie]

This dude is something else, man.

[Jerloma]

I really wish CNN would stop referring to things like thorny crowns, wood, and nails as "historical artifacts." The church does a wonderful job on their own making people dumber...you don't have to help them.

[GoodKarma]

From the video...it looks like the prayer candles didn't burn. Talk about irony...

[Joe K]

I really wish CNN would stop referring to things like thorny crowns, wood, and nails as "historical artifacts." The church does a wonderful job on their own making people dumber...you don't have to help them.

So if I go and visit the British Museum in Cairo, I can’t refer to anything from the pharaohs’ tombs as “historical artifacts” unless I believe Ra and Osiris are real? One can recognize the historical and cultural value of a really old church without being at all religious.

[A_B]

From the video...it looks like the prayer candles didn't burn. Talk about irony...

(Metal candle holders)

[Jerloma]

I really wish CNN would stop referring to things like thorny crowns, wood, and nails as "historical artifacts." The church does a wonderful job on their own making people dumber...you don't have to help them.

So if I go and visit the British Museum in Cairo, I can’t refer to anything from the pharaohs’ tombs as “historical artifacts” unless I believe Ra and Osiris are real? One can recognize the historical and cultural value of a really old church without being at all religious.

You can't have a historical artifact from something not recorded or recognized by history. Pharoahs are absolutely part of recorded history.

I mean, if archaeology tells you that a nail was likely used as an executionary weapon with a Roman torture apparatus, that can be a historical artifact. The Romans tortured a lot of people. When you give the nail a cool nickname because you claim it killed the creator of all time, space, and matter...it ceases to be a historical artifact.

[A_B]

I really wish CNN would stop referring to things like thorny crowns, wood, and nails as "historical artifacts." The church does a wonderful job on their own making people dumber...you don't have to help them.

So if I go and visit the British Museum in Cairo, I can’t refer to anything from the pharaohs’ tombs as “historical artifacts” unless I believe Ra and Osiris are real? One can recognize the historical and cultural value of a really old church without being at all religious.

You can't have a historical artifact from something not recorded or recognized by history. Pharoahs are absolutely part of recorded history.

I mean, if archaeology tells you that a nail was likely used as an executionary weapon with a Roman torture apparatus, that can be a historical artifact. The Romans tortured a lot of people. When you give the nail a cool nickname because you claim it killed the creator of all time, space, and matter...it ceases to be a historical artifact.

Wait, so you're now positing that Jesus is fictional? I think most historians of the era agree that he existed and is thus, a historical figure. And while the thorns at Notre Dame may or may not have ever been on his head, they definitely were brought to France by a real actual person in the 12th century or so, which makes them, even if not venerated as they claim to be, a historical artifact.

[Joe K]

I really wish CNN would stop referring to things like thorny crowns, wood, and nails as "historical artifacts." The church does a wonderful job on their own making people dumber...you don't have to help them.

So if I go and visit the British Museum in Cairo, I can’t refer to anything from the pharaohs’ tombs as “historical artifacts” unless I believe Ra and Osiris are real? One can recognize the historical and cultural value of a really old church without being at all religious.

You can't have a historical artifact from something not recorded or recognized by history. Pharoahs are absolutely part of recorded history.

I mean, if archaeology tells you that a nail was likely used as an executionary weapon with a Roman torture apparatus, that can be a historical artifact. The Romans tortured a lot of people. When you give the nail a cool nickname because you claim it killed the creator of all time, space, and matter...it ceases to be a historical artifact.

Wait, so you're now positing that Jesus is fictional? I think most historians of the era agree that he existed and is thus, a historical figure. And while the thorns at Notre Dame may or may not have ever been on his head, they definitely were brought to France by a real actual person in the 12th century or so, which makes them, even if not venerated as they claim to be, a historical artifact.

Agreed. Even if Jesus was entirely fictional, stuff that still exists from the 12th Century are absolutely historical artifacts. *Someone* who was real made them and there aren’t a whole lot of examples of 12th Century items still around these days.

[Jerloma]

This event is not recognized by any legitimate standard that we use to determine significant things that happened...aka, history. In fact, it's an event that wasn't recorded at all until about 100 years after it occurred and is wrought with contradictions throughout the different recordings of the events even in the magic book that claims it happened. That's the claim. That's what makes them so valuable. That's what makes them "sacred." Nobody would care about these things if it wasn't for the mythology that surrounds them.

[Joe K]

This event is not recognized by any legitimate standard that we use to determine significant things that happened...aka, history. In fact, it's an event that wasn't recorded at all until about 100 years after it occurred and is wrought with contradictions throughout the different recordings of the events even in the magic book that claims it happened. That's the claim. That's what makes them so valuable. That's what makes them "sacred." Nobody would care about these things if it wasn't for the mythology that surrounds them.

Yeah, that’s bullshit. The vast majority of historic preservation efforts that seek to maintain centuries’ old buildings have nothing to do with mythology or religious faith.

[Jerloma]

I mean I'd call the archaeological artifacts. I was under the impression that history captured significant things that happened. If history is just anything that happened in the past, then yeah, you're correct. Anything from the 12 century is historical.