The Swamp

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:31 am**

Worthy of mention, too obscure for own thread?

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:34 am**

Kind of embarrassing for the United States to be sending a D team to an actual international World Cup, yet still most of the United States doesn't care.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am**

any reason why the US sent such a bad team? i know it's not the olympics but usually for world championships it's not this bad.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:53 am**

Players have realized there's negative incentive to go?

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:56 am**

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am any reason why the US sent such a bad team? i know it's not the olympics but usually for world championships it's not this bad.

Regular season is too long, most elite US players only care about the Olympics?

Can't blame guys for not wanting to spend several weeks on training camp and World Cup right before what for some will be a nine-month slog. Realize FIBA likes to miss other World Cups and whatnot, but optimum time for these events is usually June. They could also do what hockey does and run it in mid/late April right after regular season so guys whose teams are eliminated can go over and play if they want when they're still in game shape and then they'd still have a few months to rest afterwards.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:58 am**

Well USA survive Turkey and at 2-0 will move out of the group.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:26 am**

brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:56 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am any reason why the US sent such a bad team? i know it's not the olympics but usually for world championships it's not this bad.
Regular season is too long, most elite US players only care about the Olympics?

Can't blame guys for not wanting to spend several weeks on training camp and World Cup right before what for some will be a nine-month slog.

Yeah, American guys on teams expected to compete for the NBA title just don’t want to play extra minutes in the offseason. The only player getting significant minutes for the US team that’s also a key player for a contending team is Khris Middleton. This doesn’t really hold for the international guys, though, as Giannis and Jokic are both playing.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:29 am**

Joe K wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:26 am
brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:56 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am any reason why the US sent such a bad team? i know it's not the olympics but usually for world championships it's not this bad.
Regular season is too long, most elite US players only care about the Olympics?

Can't blame guys for not wanting to spend several weeks on training camp and World Cup right before what for some will be a nine-month slog.
Yeah, American guys on teams expected to compete for the NBA title just don’t want to play extra minutes in the offseason. The only player getting significant minutes for the US team that’s also a key player for a contending team is Khris Middleton. This doesn’t really hold for the international guys, though, as Giannis and Jokic are both playing.

They face an INSANE amount of pressure to play for their countries whereas, the American players don't face any. Literally almost no one is going to give LeBron shit for not playing in this.

Compare that to someone like Giannis who already faces a lot of pressure in Greece because of his family's status as immigrants. There's no chance he can miss without having a legitimate injury. Same for a lot of other guys from other countries.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:34 am**

brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:56 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am any reason why the US sent such a bad team? i know it's not the olympics but usually for world championships it's not this bad.
Regular season is too long, most elite US players only care about the Olympics?

Can't blame guys for not wanting to spend several weeks on training camp and World Cup right before what for some will be a nine-month slog. Realize FIBA likes to miss other World Cups and whatnot, but optimum time for these events is usually June. They could also do what hockey does and run it in mid/late April right after regular season so guys whose teams are eliminated can go over and play if they want when they're still in game shape and then they'd still have a few months to rest afterwards.

The problem with this is that you'd have to make the worlds every year like in hockey because using your example, Giannis would never play for Greece if his team is always making deep runs.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:21 pm**

The last USA FIBA World Championship/Cup team had Kyrie, Harden, Davis, Klay, Steph, DeRozan, Cousins & Drummond on it, I don't think you can say there is a trend or even a recent history of guys bagging on the event. I think the US has had a pretty healthy dynamic the last few cycles, where the Olympic team is the absolute A team and the Worlds is the place for guys with 5-6 years or less NBA experience to try out for the few spots that come open every cycle.

Problem is, the years 2009-2012 produced all of the guys listed above (and more: Kawhi, Griffin, Butler, Lillard, Draymond, Kemba, Middleton, Beal) and the draft classes ever since then haven't been nearly as deep. Well there's Towns (eligibility?) and Russell (???), but beyond that you're seeing the best the US has had to offer from those draft classes. Soccer has golden generations and lost generations, I don't see why the same concept wouldn't apply to hoops.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:27 pm**

Is the problem that I'm wrong (and I might be) that a US D team like this given the constraints you mention should still be able to wipe the floor with fucking Turkey?

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:46 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:27 pm Is the problem that I'm wrong (and I might be) that a US D team like this given the constraints you mention should still be able to wipe the floor with fucking Turkey?

I couldn't say for sure, but a guy like Andres Nocioni, who carved out a substantial NBA career as a backup and sometime starter, was a terrific international player. Same with JJ Barea and some other guys.

I think a not insignificant part is that American-born players grow up dreaming about winning an NBA title while foreign-born players dream about Olympic gold medals. The pride in playing for your country is completely different.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 pm**

I guess I should be clear -- I realize Turkey has some NBA-ish caliber guys, but I don't feel like the rest of the world has caught up to the US to where these kinds of upsets should still be happening except with maybe the very best international sides (I'd guess probably like Spain and Serbia, maybe Australia?)

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:05 pm**

I guess TIL there's a FIBA world rankings where probably unsurprisingly the United States is ranked #1.

I don't know how long those rankings go back, but I have to imagine the United States has never not been #1?

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:14 pm**

I wonder how much of the talent gaps are made up by cohesion and lack of apathy.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm**

Yeah, one thing about other countries is that their top guys have been playing together on these teams for years. Our teams are put together a couple of weeks before the tournament. That makes a difference. Not nearly enough of a difference when we're rolling out LeBron, Durant, Harden, etc, but when it's Joe Harris, Kemba Walker and Khris Middleton, it certainly can.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:18 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:14 pm I wonder how much of the talent gaps are made up by cohesion and lack of apathy.

Yeah, I guess I left that question unsaid, but it's hard to imagine the US players are as motivated as some of the teams they're playing. Maybe it's not fair for me to assume that, but it seems like a fair assumption.

By the same token, if you're agreeing to give up all this time off to represent your country and committing to spend three weeks in China, you have to be at least pretty committed.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:02 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 pm I guess I should be clear -- I realize Turkey has some NBA-ish caliber guys, but I don't feel like the rest of the world has caught up to the US to where these kinds of upsets should still be happening except with maybe the very best international sides (I'd guess probably like Spain and Serbia, maybe Australia?)

Based on the box score it looks like the US had a pretty horrific shooting performance today so they’re probably still significantly better than Turkey. However, the three teams you mentioned could be trouble, especially Serbia. Serbia has a first-team All-NBA player in Jokic (the US has only one third-team All-NBA guy in Walker), plus multiple other solid NBA contributors. Add in the motivation and international experience factors and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they won the Gold.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:33 pm**

In regards to the shooting, I heard on a Simmons podcast that a lot of guys were having trouble with the FIBA ball. Different texture, wider/deeper channels and a tad smaller than the NBA ball. Everyone was having trouble adjusting.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:49 pm**

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:33 pm In regards to the shooting, I heard on a Simmons podcast that a lot of guys were having trouble with the FIBA ball. Different texture, wider/deeper channels and a tad smaller than the NBA ball. Everyone was having trouble adjusting.

Reminds me of this from a few years ago....but not exactly the same.
http://www.sportsfrog.net/phpbb/viewtop ... ll#p114063

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:36 am**

Turkey lost by 15 to freaking Czechia today and the US is out to a 11-0 over Japan (featuring Rui Hachimura...and NICK FAZEKAS)

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:47 am**

Fazekas has played for the Toshiba Brave Thunders Kanagawa since moving to Japan in 2012. His prior gig was in the Philippines, starring for the San Miguel Beermen.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:01 am**

Interesting tournament model
After the 1st groups the 2nd groups are 4 teams but the first group results are still accounted for and the 1 & 2 seeds in the 2nd groups only play the 3 and 4 seeds (i.e. USA won't play Brazil in round 2 games). Top 2 of each 2nd round group goes to the quarter finals brackets.

Similar group behavior of the placement games (17-32 ranked teams)

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:38 pm**

So what gives...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/usa- ... rst-round/

"Team USA now advances to the second group stage as the winner of Group E. In getting there, they caught a major break in one of the day's earlier results. Turkey, the team that gave Team USA so much trouble on Tuesday, was knocked out by the Czech Republic in a battle for Group E's other spot in the second group stage. It will therefore be the Czech team that advances alongside Team USA in the next round.

Group F's undefeated winner, Brazil, will be waiting for them there. So will Greece and NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo, who beat New Zealand on Thursday to punch their own ticket to the next round. The rules for that next round are similar to the first, but with one major exception: Team USA will not need to play the Czech Republic again in this stage. They will only face their two new opponents, Greece and Brazil. The top two teams from this new group will advance into the knockout stage

Their first game in that stage will be Saturday against Greece, with their battle against Brazil coming on Monday. Team USA would have been favored in those matchups regardless of Thursday's outcome, but after such a poor showing against Turkey, they needed a win like this to right the ship against superior upcoming competition. That was one of the biggest takeaways from this game. Here are the others.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:28 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:38 pm So what gives...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/usa- ... rst-round/

"Team USA now advances to the second group stage as the winner of Group E. In getting there, they caught a major break in one of the day's earlier results. Turkey, the team that gave Team USA so much trouble on Tuesday, was knocked out by the Czech Republic in a battle for Group E's other spot in the second group stage. It will therefore be the Czech team that advances alongside Team USA in the next round.

Group F's undefeated winner, Brazil, will be waiting for them there. So will Greece and NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo, who beat New Zealand on Thursday to punch their own ticket to the next round. The rules for that next round are similar to the first, but with one major exception: Team USA will not need to play the Czech Republic again in this stage. They will only face their two new opponents, Greece and Brazil. The top two teams from this new group will advance into the knockout stage

Their first game in that stage will be Saturday against Greece, with their battle against Brazil coming on Monday. Team USA would have been favored in those matchups regardless of Thursday's outcome, but after such a poor showing against Turkey, they needed a win like this to right the ship against superior upcoming competition. That was one of the biggest takeaways from this game. Here are the others.

I read the schedule wrong...strange format

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:31 pm**

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:01 am Interesting tournament model
After the 1st groups the 2nd groups are 4 teams but the first group results are still accounted for and the 1 & 2 seeds in the 2nd groups only play the 3 and 4 seeds (i.e. USA won't play Brazil in round 2 games). Top 2 of each 2nd round group goes to the quarter finals brackets.

Similar group behavior of the placement games (17-32 ranked teams)

I've always wanted this format for the soccer world cup. That way final group games, such as England-Belgium in 2018, count double instead of being duds.

I would not have placements games though. Those are dumb.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:32 am**

Looking like a good finish coming up in the US-France QF. But either way, tune in for the ASMR-for-stalkers stylings of color commentator Tom Thibodeau

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:46 am**

Gobert killing it

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 am**

Bounced in the quarters. No medals. Not great for Pop's legacy.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:08 am**

That was Thibs? Wow. That was deader than every Patrick Ewing postgame interview from the 90s.

Having Thibs call the game from a sound studio in Connecticut is the perfect complement to, uh, whatever the USA was doing with this tournament.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:10 am**

Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 am Bounced in the quarters. No medals. Not great for Pop's legacy.

I had to look up who coached the '04 Olympic disaster. Nobody cares.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am**

Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 am Bounced in the quarters. No medals. Not great for Pop's legacy.

Coach K couldn't have won with this squad either.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:19 am**

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am
Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 am Bounced in the quarters. No medals. Not great for Pop's legacy.
Coach K couldn't have won with this squad either.

No way to know for sure, but I have a hunch more stars would have played if K were still the coach. I think his retiring signaled an end to that incredibly successful period of USA Basketball taking itself seriously. I'm just not sure an active NBA coach can really put together and manage a proper team. It needs to be a coach who isn't currently working in the NBA.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:20 am**

My not-so hot take is that Rudy Gobert is a better NBA player than anyone on this USA team. And a team with inconsistent outside shooting probably doesn’t want to match up with the best rim protecting center in the world.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am**

And on 9/11 to boot. Obviously this team hates America.

Posted: **Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:17 am**

Ryan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:10 am
Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 am Bounced in the quarters. No medals. Not great for Pop's legacy.
I had to look up who coached the '04 Olympic disaster. Nobody cares.

It was Larry Brown burying LeBron, Carmelo, and the other young guys, right?

And yes, Gobert is better than any player on the US team.

The Swamp

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