The Swamp

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:34 am Objective, rational people don't watch Fox News.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:11 amYou really are going to have to eat a massive shit sandwich to defend Trump on this.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:09 pm God it’s so nice when you can lead a witness.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:16 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.

How many objective people who follow any of this are still on the fence or support Trump? Not many. Almost nobody will actually see any of the testimony, and while Taylor is as good a witness as I could imagine, he isn't saying anything that will go viral or capture attention, so it won't have any impact outside of people watching the testimony or already onboard the Impeachment Train.

The GOP, Fox and the rest will just flatly say "Taylor exonerated Trump, proves Trump innocent" and that will stick with Trump's base, and it will be enough that no more than 3 or 4 GOP Senators will vote to convict. Facts and evidence are meaningless.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:16 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.

How many objective people who follow any of this are still on the fence or support Trump? Not many. Almost nobody will actually see any of the testimony, and while Taylor is as good a witness as I could imagine, he isn't saying anything that will go viral or capture attention, so it won't have any impact outside of people watching the testimony or already onboard the Impeachment Train.

The GOP, Fox and the rest will just flatly say "Taylor exonerated Trump, proves Trump innocent" and that will stick with Trump's base, and it will be enough that no more than 3 or 4 GOP Senators will vote to convict. Facts and evidence are meaningless.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:31 pm Trump's base matters as long as they are (solely) driving the Republican politicians actions. Its like say "ignore the centrists" without acknowledging they're all the Dem leadership cares about.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:36 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:31 pm Trump's base matters as long as they are (solely) driving the Republican politicians actions. Its like say "ignore the centrists" without acknowledging they're all the Dem leadership cares about.

This. Personally, I don't give a fuck about his base, but as long as the GOP Senators do, that is all that matters. As long as they get reelected and backed by the Party for supporting Trump, they will continue to support Trump. If the base cracks, I'd bet more than half the GOP Senators would love to turn on Trump, and probably a dozen more would turn on Trump if they thought it would help them politically.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm Is Nunes going to just talk the whole time and ask no questions?

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.

And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:54 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.

And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.

We can agree to disagree. This is very cut and dry - The president asked for a favor and held up important aid when he didn't get it. If you're too dumb to process that (voter, not you, obvi) then you were going to vote like a fucking moron regardless.

The suburbs of America is where Trump is going to lose this election. If you don't think there are persuadable people in those pockets, again, we're going to agree to disagree. These people are educated and don't hang out watching Hannity for shits and giggles. But they didn't like Hillary (and she didn't court them enough) and they voted for Trump in many parts of the country.

As I've said for 3 years now, Trump's approach isn't sustainable. He is destroying the Grand Ole Party.

That's the point I'm making... Trump's base can go fuck itself with a bowling ball. These hearings and putting more Republicans in Congress on the record is, again, the point of this exercise.

And I'm with Giff... I hope they vote to keep him in office. Serve them fucking right next November.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:08 pm It was the suburbs in northern Kentucky that cost Bevin the governor’s race - nonlinear is right - the bleeding in the suburbs gets worse with stuff like today. And it is already pretty bad for Republicans.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:17 pm The Republicans using these hearings to smear Biden and not refute the allegations is honestly the best case scenario for the Dems. Not sure how the GOP still doesn't get that.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:34 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:17 pm The Republicans using these hearings to smear Biden and not refute the allegations is honestly the best case scenario for the Dems. Not sure how the GOP still doesn't get that.

Because the last time they turned a serious event into a referendum on a flawed legacy Dem it worked out pretty well?

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:00 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:54 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.

And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.

We can agree to disagree. This is very cut and dry - The president asked for a favor and held up important aid when he didn't get it. If you're too dumb to process that (voter, not you, obvi) then you were going to vote like a fucking moron regardless.

The suburbs of America is where Trump is going to lose this election. If you don't think there are persuadable people in those pockets, again, we're going to agree to disagree. These people are educated and don't hang out watching Hannity for shits and giggles. But they didn't like Hillary (and she didn't court them enough) and they voted for Trump in many parts of the country.

As I've said for 3 years now, Trump's approach isn't sustainable. He is destroying the Grand Ole Party.

That's the point I'm making... Trump's base can go fuck itself with a bowling ball. These hearings and putting more Republicans in Congress on the record is, again, the point of this exercise.

And I'm with Giff... I hope they vote to keep him in office. Serve them fucking right next November.

I hope you are right, I really do, but after the last 3 years, I have absolutely no faith in the voters, the system or anything. I mean, Trump went on national TV and admitted to the offenses. Then he stood in front of the Press Corp and asked China to investigate the Bidens to get a favorable trade deal. He committed the exact same offense at a press conference where he was supposed to say he didn't make a quid pro quo with Ukraine! And we have Romney sort of not backing Trump, a few Senators refusing to answer, and the majority of the GOP outright defending Trump! Fuck, we had House members storming the committee hearings! It's fucking insane!

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:48 pm All that said, there's a special cot in Hell for Jim Jordan.

What a cunt.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:48 pm All that said, there's a special cot in Hell for Jim Jordan.

What a cunt.