The Swamp

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:07 pm He signs for Melania as well?

Holy shit you're right!

and circulating on the Trump boards today:

"Love when people call President Trump Stupid..
You mean the billionaire who kicked every Democrats ass, buried 16 career Republican politicians, and continues to make fools out of once reputable news organizations ..
-You mean the guy who won the presidency?
-You mean the guy with the super model wife?
-You mean the guy whose words alone put a massive slow down on illegal border crossings?
-You mean the guy whose mere presence made the stock market smash its previous records?
-You mean the guy who created 1 million jobs in his first 7 months in office?
You sure you're not the stupid one?
You sure you even know what it is you're resisting?
You sure you back a party that enables the decimation of every core principal of Christianity?
You sure you back a party that voted 100% against the abolition of slavery?
You sure you really take a politician like Maxine Waters seriously?

You sure you don't see anything wrong with someone who has a 40 yr career as a public servant living in a $4.5 mansion representing a district she doesn't even live in?

You sure you see nothing wrong or peculiar about Hillary Clinton a woman being involved in politics for the last 30 yrs having a net worth of $240 million?

You sure you're not just basing your opinion on hatred spewed by a crooked paid for media platform?

Are you sure you don't fall into that "sheep" category?

Are you sure you even have a clue?

Could you even tell me 5 things the Democratic Party has done to improve you're day to day prosperity as a hard working American citizen?
Probably not..

Do you realize the debacle you are sending your children into once they become adults by continuing to support a political party that has done nothing for the poor except kept them poor, gave them free abortions, and a few hundred a month to keep food in their fridge?

The prosperity and safety of its citizens is job one of your government.
Get with the program.
Everyone else has horribly failed you!
Smarten up and take a position for the sake of your children.

I promise you a country full of illegal immigrants, Muslims who want us dead, abortions, $14 an hour jobs, and non-gender specific people aren't gonna make your country and life any more prosperous.

Rosie, Madonna, Katy Perry, and Robert Deniro are not just like you. They don't have to live through the real world day to day disparity of an average American.

Men don't hate women, white people don't hate black people, and Donald Trump is not a racist.
Stop allowing yourself to be brainwashed by a party that has continuously failed you.
Be about your prosperity, your safety, your children, and an America First mindset.
Dump these crooked politicians that have stunted your growth.
Dump these crooked politicians that have stunted your children's growth.
Toughen up, take a stand, and act like a proud American.
(If you need help watch some Houston rescue footage and see the love, compassion, and American spirit of the Texas citizens which was a Trump landslide state as they help EVERYONE)
See the spirit of Trump supporting and freedom loving Americans and just imagine where we could be as a country if everyone was on board.""

You guys are driving yourselves crazy spending so much time reading and listening to the fucking morons.

Dude just got impeached.

Fucking moron's legacy, while not complete, gets to live with this stain forever.

Tulsi defenders, mount up.

Can't defend that. She's trash.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:58 pm Can't defend that. She's trash.

Like paper. It sounds better in Spanish.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:40 pm

The entire thread is bonkers.

I didn't realize you can delay the paperwork to the Senate. This is some serious but dick energy from Pelosi. Time to drop those off on, oh, October. And in the meantime bring more articles when he fucks up again. Brilliant.

So it's stalled?

Cant acquit if no papers but holding papers is just playing games?

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:13 am So it's stalled?

Cant acquit if no papers but holding papers is just playing games?

And having a Judge and jury declare they are lock-step and taking orders from the defense attorney isn't?

The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:20 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:13 am So it's stalled?

Cant acquit if no papers but holding papers is just playing games?

And having a Judge and jury declare they are lock-step and taking orders from the defense attorney isn't?

It definitely is.

It's not "playing games" if you have the Senate Majority Leader on record saying he's basically going to conduct a cursory trial and that he's in lock step with the WH all the way.

That's fucking bonkers. I don't think people understand just how insane that is.

Know what started MoveOn.org? A group of DEMOCRATS saying we should censure Bill Clinton after the impeachment, but keep him in office and "move on."

Stew on that for a minute. Think about what is going on now, how the GOP is operating.

Fucking unreal that we even have to have this discussion, frankly. The GOP of today is, literally, untethered to the rule of law and facts and decency.

We know all this.

So why is Pelosi stalling. Make McConnel do what hes going to do. Then run on that in 2020.

You have to atleast stall until the new year just for attention. This would be the ideal time for the Senate to do their bullshit and let people forget into 2020. But in general I agree its better to force them to sham-trial through versus never sending and let them pretend it would have been legit.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 am We know all this.

So why is Pelosi stalling. Make McConnel do what hes going to do. Then run on that in 2020.

Because it's putting a huge exclamation mark on it. Most people were only paying attention to the House stuff, and not what a shitbird he is being. Make him take all this shit and eat it, for all to see.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 am We know all this.

So why is Pelosi stalling. Make McConnel do what hes going to do. Then run on that in 2020.

BTW, you say "we know all this."

Really? Did you know that's how Move On started? Were you really aware that the majority of Dems back during Clinton's impeachment took the stance that, of course, lying under oath is bad. They didn't defend it, they just said it didn't rise to the level of impeachment.

I don't think that many people know their history.

So, no offense, but saying, in effect, that everyone understands how fucking outrageous the GOP's actions are in historical and existing context is... Well, it's bullshit.

ETA: degen, YOU may very well be aware of what I'm talking about, I'm not trying to be an asshole. My point is that the vast majority... Like, probably 90 percent of GOP and probably I'd say around 50 percent of Dems and Independents, aren't really aware of what I'm talking about.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:55 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 am We know all this.

So why is Pelosi stalling. Make McConnel do what hes going to do. Then run on that in 2020.

BTW, you say "we know all this."

Really? Did you know that's how Move On started? Were you really aware that the majority of Dems back during Clinton's impeachment took the stance that, of course, lying under oath is bad. They didn't defend it, they just said it didn't rise to the level of impeachment.

I don't think that many people know their history.

So, no offense, but saying, in effect, that everyone understands how fucking outrageous the GOP's actions are in historical and existing context is... Well, it's bullshit.

ETA: degen, YOU may very well be aware of what I'm talking about, I'm not trying to be an asshole. My point is that the vast majority... Like, probably 90 percent of GOP and probably I'd say around 50 percent of Dems and Independents, aren't really aware of what I'm talking about.

Sure. but you're an insider. And we on this board pay attention more than most.

I think in general people aren't paying attention to much. A very small percentage of Americans are paying attention to the Impeachment Hearings or the Democratic Nomination other than the news headlines on the elevator monitor.

And they won't be aware until it heats up in 2020. I think the Democrats are missing a trick here. When do people pay attention? in September of 2020. Make McConnell go through with it then call him out for it. Run GOP soundbites of the sham-trial continuously. McConnel grew out of the septic tank of Newt Gingrich. The system is broken, so make the GOP totally break it. Blow it all up.

We, on this board, get down in the weeds too much. The common voter just pays attention to marketing.

During Trump's unhinged Nazi Party rally last night, he said this:

Trump Tells Rally He’s ‘Not Worried’ About Impeachment, Privately Plots Vengeance

“I could have Barron Trump go into Central Park and he’d get a crowd” larger than what “Crazy Pocahontas” Elizabeth Warren has drawn.

So....when do we get the outrage from Melania/Don Jr/etc about bringing a teenager into the political world?

Roy Wood Jr explains impeachment...

Q: Is this delay being done in order to find a way to compel witnesses to testify? Like is there a move afoot to force people like Bolton to honour their subpoenas?

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:13 pm Q: Is this delay being done in order to find a way to compel witnesses to testify? Like is there a move afoot to force people like Bolton to honour their subpoenas?

Your guess is as good as mine, but I'd guess it's mostly to let the impeachment marinate through the holidays and try to put pressure on McConnell and the Senate leadership to conduct an actual trial as opposed to a kangaroo court. I'd imagine one way or another the articles will be delivered to the Senate after the holiday adjournment.

(I'm of the opinion that it won't be successful and the Senate will run a sham trial, but ultimately that probably helps the Dems in the long run. Playing a game like never delivering the articles or waiting until right before the election as some people are suggesting is not a wise idea.)

How long can they hold on to this?

Is there a way the Dems can win the Senate and delaying the Senate trial is a "get out the vote" strategy. A wild card that can be played as insurance against 4 more years?

(Silly thought, I know)

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:23 pm How long can they hold on to this?

Is there a way the Dems can win the Senate and delaying the Senate trial is a "get out the vote" strategy. A wild card that can be played as insurance against 4 more years?

That's been speculated as a possibility. Obviously, it's made Trump insane so waiting until even February to deliver them just to troll him might be just clever enough, but I doubt that it's going to be a net positive for GOTV to wait until October or potentially after the election if Trump wins. If the Dem candidate can't deliver GOTV just based on Trump being on the ballot then really nothing else is gonna move the needle.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:23 pm How long can they hold on to this?

Is there a way the Dems can win the Senate and delaying the Senate trial is a "get out the vote" strategy. A wild card that can be played as insurance against 4 more years?

(Silly thought, I know)

If the Dems win the senate, they'd almost assuredly have won the presidency as well.

ETA: I think maybe I misread the comment.

FWIW, one of the reasons I was anti-impeachment until the Ukraine stuff came out (and we litigated this ad nauseam months ago in this very thread) is that this was the Dems one shot at Trump and they had to make it count. We can debate if they did that and it was probably a mostly positive mixed bag, but there's not gonna be another swing at the pinata short of something that causes the Republicans to want to remove him office (insert laughter here) so holding the Senate trial over his head seems way too clever and prone to backfire.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:23 pm How long can they hold on to this?

Is there a way the Dems can win the Senate and delaying the Senate trial is a "get out the vote" strategy. A wild card that can be played as insurance against 4 more years?

(Silly thought, I know)

If the Dems win the senate, they'd almost assuredly have won the presidency as well.

ETA: I think maybe I misread the comment.

Not only that, but they'd still be nowhere close to 67 seats even if they won every Senate race in 2020, even the GOP slam dunks like WY

I don't see the point of suggesting that they'll bring the impeachment over to the Senate no matter if McConnell agrees to have a fair trial. It's not like he's going to keep his word anyway. So instead, hit him where it counts.

The Dems should publicly state that McConnell, Graham, and other GOP Senators clearly and unequivically said they won't give a fair trial, and then show video of them saying that. Say that they'll send the impeachment over when they get two things (1) full assurance of a fair trail (knowing full well it won't happen), and (2) it's only coming over when McConnell brings those bills to the Senate floor. Show all the hard-to-argue bills, like the Violence Against Women Act, and bills ensuring election security, and bills relating to reauthorizing the Civil Rights Act. Make it clear that the impeachment isn't coming over until he acts. And in fact, maybe the House should look into that charity Trump had for veterans that he was required to shut down.

Then attack. When McConnell stalls, go to black areas of Louisville and Knoxville, and point out that McConnell is trying to keep the black vote down. Slap up billboards on the highways. Buy ad time. Make that motherfucker start playing defense.

Look, Trump isn't getting convicted from these cowardly fucks. Pelosi might as well get some legislation through that'll harm Republicans. Remember that when people vote more, Republicans lose.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:52 pm I don't see the point of suggesting that they'll bring the impeachment over to the Senate no matter if McConnell agrees to have a fair trial. It's not like he's going to keep his word anyway. So instead, hit him where it counts.

The Dems should publicly state that McConnell, Graham, and other GOP Senators clearly and unequivically said they won't give a fair trial, and then show video of them saying that. Say that they'll send the impeachment over when they get two things (1) full assurance of a fair trail (knowing full well it won't happen), and (2) it's only coming over when McConnell brings those bills to the Senate floor. Show all the hard-to-argue bills, like the Violence Against Women Act, and bills ensuring election security, and bills relating to reauthorizing the Civil Rights Act. Make it clear that the impeachment isn't coming over until he acts. And in fact, maybe the House should look into that charity Trump had for veterans that he was required to shut down.

Then attack. When McConnell stalls, go to black areas of Louisville and Knoxville, and point out that McConnell is trying to keep the black vote down. Slap up billboards on the highways. Buy ad time. Make that motherfucker start playing defense.

Look, Trump isn't getting convicted from these cowardly fucks. Pelosi might as well get some legislation through that'll harm Republicans. Remember that when people vote more, Republicans lose.

I think I should be offended.

And fuck it. While they're at it, start needling Trump. Point out that he's a pussy (obviously not in that exact language) and he needs big boy McConnell to save him. If that gets Trump pissed off, maybe he'll snap. There's certainly no downside to that (unless he sends the Naitonal Guard to San Francisco, and I frankly can't see that as an impossibility).

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:55 pm

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:52 pm I don't see the point of suggesting that they'll bring the impeachment over to the Senate no matter if McConnell agrees to have a fair trial. It's not like he's going to keep his word anyway. So instead, hit him where it counts.

The Dems should publicly state that McConnell, Graham, and other GOP Senators clearly and unequivically said they won't give a fair trial, and then show video of them saying that. Say that they'll send the impeachment over when they get two things (1) full assurance of a fair trail (knowing full well it won't happen), and (2) it's only coming over when McConnell brings those bills to the Senate floor. Show all the hard-to-argue bills, like the Violence Against Women Act, and bills ensuring election security, and bills relating to reauthorizing the Civil Rights Act. Make it clear that the impeachment isn't coming over until he acts. And in fact, maybe the House should look into that charity Trump had for veterans that he was required to shut down.

Then attack. When McConnell stalls, go to black areas of Louisville and Knoxville, and point out that McConnell is trying to keep the black vote down. Slap up billboards on the highways. Buy ad time. Make that motherfucker start playing defense.

Look, Trump isn't getting convicted from these cowardly fucks. Pelosi might as well get some legislation through that'll harm Republicans. Remember that when people vote more, Republicans lose.

I think I should be offended.

Wait... Why? McConnell would be running scared if the black vote is pissed off and ready to vote. I know there are plenty of reasonable white people in Kentucky who would vote Democrat, but when let's be honest. Republicans are scared when blacks vote. And if you rile up the black vote, you have them by the balls.

I don't think there's too many black people in Knoxville, KY.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 pm I don't think there's too many black people in Knoxville, KY.

I don't know many big cities in Kentucky.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:31 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:23 pm How long can they hold on to this?

Is there a way the Dems can win the Senate and delaying the Senate trial is a "get out the vote" strategy. A wild card that can be played as insurance against 4 more years?

(Silly thought, I know)

If the Dems win the senate, they'd almost assuredly have won the presidency as well.

ETA: I think maybe I misread the comment.

Not only that, but they'd still be nowhere close to 67 seats even if they won every Senate race in 2020, even the GOP slam dunks like WY

Of course - forgot about the 2/3rds.

Never mind.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:00 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 pm I don't think there's too many black people in Knoxville, KY.

I don't know many big cities in Kentucky.

Clearly!


(Lexington is the second-biggest city in Kentucky, and what I think you meant. Knoxville is in Tennessee and fuck Knoxville.)

Dude, I was so fired up I had my SEC geography off.

I think the Dems should hold the articles...239 days. Which is as long as McConnell stonewalled the Garland nomination.

Also, I don't see the downside to holding these until the fucking election if they want. Steve and others are right. McConnell has helpfully said he refuses to be impartial or run an impartial process. Stating it makes this simple. Hold it into perpetuity.

i'm with L-Jam. Make McConnell say shit and then put it in campaign ads.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 pm I don't think there's too many black people in Knoxville, KY.

Don't stop him, he's a on a roll.