The Swamp

Got our not-in-anyway-socialism 'gubment money deposited today. I'm sad we didn't get the actual check so I could get Trump's autograph...

I think I read that Conway and Rick Wilson are heads of a conservative PAC that have endorsed Biden.

So clearly they need to rescind that endorsement because something something Joe Rogan.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:12 pm Or is he serving as hollow performative resistance where, by example, at the end of the day everything isn't all that bad because they're still together?

No, because this isn't about George Conway. It's about what he is doing.

When he creates a thread listing the symptoms of Malignant Narcissistic Disorder as defined by the DSM and goes into detail with examples showing how Trump displays all the symptoms, he really has done that. He really has put that information together in a place where people can read it, where it will be taken seriously by some nonzero number of conservative influencers.

When it comes to sports, it can be relevant whether someone is a good guy or a bad guy. I think it is perfectly legitimate to decide not to patronize a team or organization who employs or promotes a domestic abuser, say. But politics is a matter of life or death for so many vulnerable people. So what matters most is what people do and what they are likely to do.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:42 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:04 am

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:23 am Yeah, I hate him.

Same. The fact that he is still with her (regardless of the rooms the occupy) speaks a lot to his character.

The guy dated Laura Ingraham and was introduced to his current bride by Ann Coulter.

Those are the circles he runs in.

Fucking moron.

Crazy in head, crazy in bed.

At first I was like "Huh. What a family dynamic." when it was apparent they were oil and water at the beginning of this presidency. I was entertained. But as the charade goes on, it just doesn't make sense.

Like, I truly don't think any Republican is being honest about this administration. Trump is just doing everything a generic Republican would do, but be extra extra asshole about it while using 3rd grade speech patterns. So yea, none of this makes sense to me.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:36 pmTrump is just doing everything a generic Republican would do, but be extra extra asshole about it while using 3rd grade speech patterns.

I don't think so. I am not aware of too many generic Republicans explicitly endorsing ethnic cleansing. He has committed government resources specifically to compile and promote crimes committed by brown-skinned "illegal immigrants", and he also uses his bully pulpit to promote racial hatred. I think it's fair to say that the GOP was doing something similar in the 80s, but they had stopped doing this, at least explicitly.

Trump has also claimed absolute, unreviewable power. Though George W Bush kind-of theoretically did this during his administration, Trump has made it explicit. He's taken the position that he is not subject to Congressional oversight or subpoenas or state or federal statutes governing, e.g., disclosure of tax returns. He's explicitly used taxpayer resources to extort foreign and now domestic actors to do things to help him personally. (Ukraine, New York.) In addition to putting taxpayer money into his own pocket through various means such as Secret Service stays at his properties.

He is publicly claiming voting results to be illegitimate. He's making federal employees make his ego a primary consideration when they decide what to say or do publicly.

For sure, Republicans are terrible. But Trump has gone way beyond it.

He's being insulated by Republicans. Trump was always going to be the eventuality for a political party that vilifies the non Christian non white non male.

At any point they could have thrown his ass out via the 25th. They haven't.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:12 pm Or is he serving as hollow performative resistance where, by example, at the end of the day everything isn't all that bad because they're still together?

Who gives a fuck about his home life or his super-secret motives? Steve's point is right on the money - he's calling out and nailing Trump hard for his bullshit, on a daily basis. That is good. But, some of you don't like him around because of shit in the background? Gawd, I'm tired of litmus tests.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:54 pm He's being insulated by Republicans. Trump was always going to be the eventuality for a political party that vilifies the non Christian non white non male.

At any point they could have thrown his ass out via the 25th. They haven't.

Oh yes. No disagreement here.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:15 pmWho gives a fuck about his home life or his super-secret motives? Steve's point is right on the money - he's calling out and nailing Trump hard for his bullshit, on a daily basis. That is good. But, some of you don't like him around because of shit in the background? Gawd, I'm tired of litmus tests.

If the messenger doesn't dilute or invalidate the message, you should check out Steakums' twitter page.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:30 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:15 pmWho gives a fuck about his home life or his super-secret motives? Steve's point is right on the money - he's calling out and nailing Trump hard for his bullshit, on a daily basis. That is good. But, some of you don't like him around because of shit in the background? Gawd, I'm tired of litmus tests.

If the messenger doesn't dilute or invalidate the message, you should check out Steakums' twitter page.

Give me an example of Conway diluting the message.

(I follow Steak-umm, too.)

His wife.

That's background stuff, as I said. His words speak for themselves.

GoodKarma wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:22 pm Got our not-in-anyway-socialism 'gubment money deposited today. I'm sad we didn't get the actual check so I could get Trump's autograph...

I also got mine direct deposited. Trump must hate direct deposit, as those folks don't see his impressive signature.

Just like I don't like Carville. I find the act disingenuous, at best.

Who cares who I like or don't, btw. He wants to go out and call Trump crazy, to quote my least favorite Dem, Have at it, Hoss.

But I'm absolutely going to question him on here, ffs.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:35 pm That's background stuff, as I said. His words speak for themselves.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:38 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:35 pm That's background stuff, as I said. His words speak for themselves.

We’re talking about political argumentation. His words *are* his actions.

I guess I don't believe that all public figures' words should be taken at face value, especially if you can easily ascribe self-interest.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:13 pm I guess I don't believe that all public figures' words should be taken at face value, especially if you can easily ascribe self-interest.

What's his "self-interest" in this case? He was a prominent conservative attorney and I have to imagine this has had a net negative impact on his friendships and his business.

Anything from publicity to family diversification knowing his wife should be poison coming out of this administration. I'm not saying he doesn't believe what he's writing, I'm saying fuck off getting praise (or the benefit of the doubt) for writing that when you're married to Kellyanne Conway. Think of it the same way I wouldn't want to see Grimes penning any passive aggressive tweets about people who promise ventilators and don't come through then going downstairs to watch Ozark with Elon.

I think we're all gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not suggesting we build a statue to him or that he's a hero or anything, but I honestly don't understanding destroying him over it either.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:13 pm I guess I don't believe that all public figures' words should be taken at face value, especially if you can easily ascribe self-interest.

I guess my question is - when it comes to political argumentation, what is there besides face value? He's putting words and concepts together and circulating them under his name. His name carries weight, and the words and concepts present compelling reasons why Trump should not be President.

I have no doubt that what he is doing is motivated by self-interest. Of course it is - everything everyone does is motivated by self-interest of one sort or another. But so what - you aren't among the people who are likely to be moved by his words and concepts. His audience is other conservatives, and if he reaches them, then's he's reached them.

Serious question - if you hear a new song, from an artist you've never heard of, do you form an opinion about the song? Or do you wait until you find out what the artist's motivation is?

I would listen to the song, form an opinion and then possibly change that opinion based on what I learn about the artist. Same as what I've done with Conway and would do in the Grimes hypothetical because the same word-for-word comment written by ten people can have ten different meanings.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:44 am

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:30 am

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:16 am I wonder how rural voters in relatively unaffected areas are going to feel if the economy remains closed, they are out of work, and almost nobody in their region is sick.

I read a thread on Twitter a few hours ago about how its about to hit rural areas HARD, mostly due to a) lack of health care facilities, and b) lack of health insurance.

I tried to look for it again...but no luck.

That's been out there as a "thing" for over a week. And this week it's hitting home in those prairie and red states where the durr hurr governors are having their "this is about freedom" shit thrown back in their face.

Souix Falls is one of the hardest hit cities, forcing the closure of Smithfields, threatening the food supply chain.

Again, fucking morons.

Michigan having a "lift the shutdown" protest today on the heels of Ohio doing the same. Complete with confederate flags and all.

My mother-in-law hates Trump and her husband supports him. Are you saying they should get a divorce?

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:39 pm I would listen to the song, form an opinion and then possibly change that opinion based on what I learn about the artist. Same as what I've done with Conway and would do in the Grimes hypothetical because the same word-for-word comment written by ten people can have ten different meanings.

Sure, and I would definitely consider facts about the artist in deciding whether to pay money for the artist's music or recommend him or her to others. But when it comes to the value of a political argument, we are in the position of measuring the impact of just the song in and of itself.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:55 pm My mother-in-law hates Trump and her husband supports him. Are you saying they should get a divorce?

If she takes a role in the administration, probably. Sorry.

There's something extremely disingenuous about George Conway's situation. He tweets. He gives the occasional interview. But his wife is a chief propagandist. I simply can't get passed it.

If Hannity's wife suddenly went on a roll like Conway I'd be extremely pessimistic all the same.

I don't trust these people.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pm There's something extremely disingenuous about George Conway's situation. He tweets. He gives the occasional interview. But his wife is a chief propagandist. I simply can't get passed it.

If Hannity's wife suddenly went on a roll like Conway I'd be extremely pessimistic all the same.

I don't trust these people.

He writes op eds for the Post wailing about the evil of her Boss. If they weren't both proven cynics in two of the most cynical professions in the most cynical city on the continent, I'd enjoy his writing more.

If only MAGA chuds were capable of understanding irony:

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:51 pmMichigan having a "lift the shutdown" protest today on the heels of Ohio doing the same. Complete with confederate flags and all.

Huh. I seem to remember anti Trump protests in Arizona where traffic was blocked and those people were "anti American."

Interesting how it's suddenly "patriotic" now. Confederate flags and all. Reading this was organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition and the Michigan Freedom Fund, a DeVos family-linked conservative group.

Cunts.

They were literally blocking access to a hospital down the street from the state capitol. Wouldn't shed a tear if they all fuckin' died from COVID-19 tbh. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I'm fast running out of fucks to give.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:20 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pm There's something extremely disingenuous about George Conway's situation. He tweets. He gives the occasional interview. But his wife is a chief propagandist. I simply can't get passed it.

If Hannity's wife suddenly went on a roll like Conway I'd be extremely pessimistic all the same.

I don't trust these people.

He writes op eds for the Post wailing about the evil of her Boss. If they weren't both proven cynics in two of the most cynical professions in the most cynical city on the continent, I'd enjoy his writing more.

The latest, from about 4 hours ago. Him, Rick Wilson, Reed Wilson, Steve Schmidt, and John Weaver:

We’ve never backed a Democrat for president. But Trump must be defeated.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:37 pm They were literally blocking access to a hospital down the street from the state capitol. Wouldn't shed a tear if they all fuckin' died from COVID-19 tbh. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I'm fast running out of fucks to give.

Trust me, I would love to see a lot of people die. From COVID or otherwise.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pmI don't trust these people.

Well, yeah. No one should trust any of these people.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pmI don't trust these people.

Well, yeah. No one should trust any of these people.

I'll be legit curious to see what these guys are saying about Biden after he takes office if he wins. When it comes time to nominate a replacement for RBG, etc. I suspect they'll go back to their old ways, but the enemy of my enemy and all that.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:58 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pmI don't trust these people.

Well, yeah. No one should trust any of these people.

I'll be legit curious to see what these guys are saying about Biden after he takes office if he wins. When it comes time to nominate a replacement for RBG, etc. I suspect they'll go back to their old ways, but the enemy of my enemy and all that.

I would assume so. But it may depend on which way the Republican Party goes after Trump - if god willing we get to "after Trump".

If whistle blowing was still allowed, there must be some doozies about behind the scene stuff going on with this:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fema-tru ... 2705cafe90

Hey, man, Jared needs his stockpile!

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:59 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:58 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:48 pmI don't trust these people.

Well, yeah. No one should trust any of these people.

I'll be legit curious to see what these guys are saying about Biden after he takes office if he wins. When it comes time to nominate a replacement for RBG, etc. I suspect they'll go back to their old ways, but the enemy of my enemy and all that.

I would assume so. But it may depend on which way the Republican Party goes after Trump - if god willing we get to "after Trump".

Yeah, I'm more or less fine with G. Conway. But what bothers me is when "anti-Trump Republicans" try to use their newfound popularity to argue for the Democratic Party to transform into another conservative party that's basically just like what they want the GOP to be.

Pretty surprised that story hasn't blown up. In CO for example, the feds seized 500 ventilators that the D governor ordered and then trump made a big showing about how he was gifting 100 to the state because of Cory Gardner. It's all crooked as hell.