Racism

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:20 pm

It would be interesting to know the timing of the firing of the manager. As Howard noted, was it only after media attention? I guess it's not clear on the time difference between when higher-ups heard about it and the media attention. It's pretty likely that's how they found out.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:24 pm

Oh yeah. They heard when it made the news and they made the only proper call you can make at that point. There's no preventing something like this.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:37 pm

I know zero facts about this case, regarding timing of firing, existing policies, or anything else. I'm just trying to be cute. (I used to pull that off, but before your time.)

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:46 pm

I've seen pics, you've still got it ;P

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:31 am

So, this news story says that protestors now plan to move from Ferguson, MO by thirty miles to the west, to the affluent mostly-white suburbia of Lake Saint Louis. That ought to be interesting. Kind of like if New York City protestors moved their protests to northern New Jersey where Rass, Cerrano, and Sybian live.

My wife's relatives are very interested in this, as she is from Wentzville, which is the next (and less-affluent) town west of LSL.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:34 am

Dick.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:41 am

You move too often. My swamp map still has you in Delaware...

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:03 pm

sancarlos wrote:So, this news story says that protestors now plan to move from Ferguson, MO by thirty miles to the west, to the affluent mostly-white suburbia of Lake Saint Louis. That ought to be interesting. Kind of like if New York City protestors moved their protests to northern New Jersey where Rass, Cerrano, and Sybian live.

My wife's relatives are very interested in this, as she is from Wentzville, which is the next (and less-affluent) town west of LSL.

Based on what I've read from other local news sources, that article you posted is very misleading. I haven't seen anything saying that the protest movement as a whole is planning on moving to St. Charles County. Rather, two individuals who have been involved in the Ferguson protests have also gotten involved in a neighborhood dispute in Lake St. Louis that has obvious racial undertones.

And frankly, I found that article to have some troubling racial undertones. Why is it a bad thing for the protest movement to demonstrate in majority white neighborhoods? I'm a white guy who lives in a predominantly white neighborhood of St. Louis and don't have any problem with the fact that protestors have had some gatherings on my street. Part of why St. Louis has so many issues is that it remains an extremely segregated region and white residents are largely insulated from all the issues facing poorer black areas. It wouldn't be a bad thing for suburbanites to get a reminder of all the inequalities in this region.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:21 pm

Well, I hope you don't think I'm endorsing the article, or any other point of view, in particular. That wasn't my intent when I posted the link.

I do think it will be difficult for protestors to get any groundswell of support to protest in this particular enclave, given that it is pretty much all residential and doesn't have any particular hub area in which to focus/gather. The particular Lake St. Louis beef in the article aside, I think they'd get much more traction for a "protest in the white suburbs" movement in one of the St. Louis County suburbs closer to Ferguson.

The views of my wife's relatives run the gamut, as does their reaction to this news story (skewing toward right-wing jerkdom, but my wife herself is extremely liberal). But, I'll believe it actually occurs when I see it.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:31 pm

sancarlos wrote:Well, I hope you don't think I'm endorsing the article, or any other point of view, in particular. That wasn't my intent when I posted the link.

I do think it will be difficult for protestors to get any groundswell of support to protest in this particular enclave, given that it is pretty much all residential and doesn't have any particular hub area in which to focus/gather. The particular Lake St. Louis beef in the article aside, I think they'd get much more traction for a "protest in the white suburbs" movement in one of the St. Louis County suburbs closer to Ferguson.

The views of my wife's relatives run the gamut, as does their reaction to this news story (skewing toward right-wing jerkdom, but my wife herself is extremely liberal). But, I'll believe it actually occurs when I see it.

I didn't take your post as an endorsement; just thought I should point out that the article is inconsistent with what I've read from more credible publications here. One of the protestors referenced in that articles is actually a recently-fired cab driver in St. Louis who I got a ride from last winter. The guy is definitely a character and I wasn't surprised to see that he got involved in this dispute in Lake St. Louis.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:28 am

Man allegedly vandalizes own truck, blames Black Lives Matter supporters.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:10 pm

State of Georgia says, "Feck it, we're keeping the Confederate flag license plates."

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:13 pm

The governor of Maine seems about as progressive as you'd expect.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Jerloma wrote:The governor of Maine seems about as progressive as you'd expect.

I've been reading enough books lately about the heroin issues in the US (particularly "Dreamland" bu Sam Quinones) to know that Maine's real drug problems don't come from black guys in New York, but much more likely Dr. Feelgood and his E-Z-Meds Pain Clinic that's opened in a former True Value hardware store downtown.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 pm

Impregnating young white girls?

Did I just hear that?

Post by **brian** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:29 pm

One thing for sure. I'm taking my next vacation to Maine if girls there are that easy.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:30 pm

Pruitt wrote:Impregnating young white girls?

Did I just hear that?

Maybe, but I'm not racist so I don't hear color.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:30 pm

brian wrote:One thing for sure. I'm taking my next vacation to Maine if girls there are that easy.

But wear a condom - they all mainline drugs, so you need to be careful.

duff · Post by **duff** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:36 pm

brian wrote:One thing for sure. I'm taking my next vacation to Maine if girls there are that easy.

But your name isn't Shifty or D-Money. None for you.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:43 pm

duff wrote:
brian wrote:One thing for sure. I'm taking my next vacation to Maine if girls there are that easy.
But your name isn't Shifty or D-Money. None for you.

B-Money is close right?

Post by **brian** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:59 pm

B-Money can get the job done. I'm short on heroin however.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:00 pm

duff wrote:
brian wrote:One thing for sure. I'm taking my next vacation to Maine if girls there are that easy.
But your name isn't Shifty or D-Money. None for you.

Shifty? D-Money? Are they all part of a gang from a Bazooka Joe comic strip?

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:06 am

Last week's assignment for my students was to submit character sketches and episode premises for the TV series that they have been developing over the past month or so.

One student's series idea was a mockumentary starring a Crocodile Hunter sort of guy who tracked down and taught the viewer about different types of people.

I had told this student that it was a decent idea (this all culminates in a 10 page script - no expectations of selling the idea) as long as he focused on social types. He discussed having episodes about "geeks," "jocks" and "baristas."

Then he handed in this...

As much as I hate passing the buck, I felt I had to send this to my supervisor. He will be spoken to about the school's policies and will be warned. He will get a zero on this part of the assignment.

You know, what makes this more disturbing is that he wrote this because he thought it was funny.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:56 am

Holy shit. Fucking Canada man.

Was "Adolf" his attempt at passing this off as satire?

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:17 am

And then there is this.

Germany doesn’t have the United States’ specific racial history of minstrel shows or tradition of blackface, so it would be a stretch to call this intended act of solidarity outright racist. What everyone should be able to agree on here, though, is that the resulting image looks very strange, very funny, and is actually very sweet. But maybe don’t do this again.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:20 am

rass wrote:Holy shit. Fucking Canada man.

Was "Adolf" his attempt at passing this off as satire?

Adolf is - for some reason - a woman.

Kid is too dense to know what satire is. Hope he enjoys meeting with the head of the department on Tuesday to try to explain why this isn't racist. He'll go far in a multi-ethnic industry.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:09 am

That reads like a worse version of Ari Shaffir's Amazing Racist character from a decade ago.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:16 am

Pruitt wrote:
rass wrote:Holy shit. Fucking Canada man.

Was "Adolf" his attempt at passing this off as satire?
Adolf is - for some reason - a woman.

Kid is too dense to know what satire is. Hope he enjoys meeting with the head of the department on Tuesday to try to explain why this isn't racist. He'll go far in a multi-ethnic industry.

You turned him in?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:28 am

rass wrote:And then there is this.

Germany doesn’t have the United States’ specific racial history of minstrel shows or tradition of blackface, so it would be a stretch to call this intended act of solidarity outright racist. What everyone should be able to agree on here, though, is that the resulting image looks very strange, very funny, and is actually very sweet. But maybe don’t do this again.

I googled around and couldn't find any specific background on Billy Haisley. He's light skinned and that's all I see about the dude. So, unless he grew up in Germany at any point in his life and his American side is too shocked to witness such a display, this bolded part is just soccer mom, knee jerk, American guilt and entitlement reaction. How that soccer team shows solidarity with their players is their business. He has no right to just respond in such a manner. In context, this was absolutely appropriate. Nothing of ill or malicious intent was done. It just looks unsettling because of our history with blackface in America.

Does he realize if Heath Ledger doesn't die from playing the Joker, Robert Downey Jr was going to win the best supporting actor award for his character in Tropic Thunder?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:38 am

I'm like 99% sure he's a black dude.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:41 am

Johnnie wrote:
rass wrote:And then there is this.

Germany doesn’t have the United States’ specific racial history of minstrel shows or tradition of blackface, so it would be a stretch to call this intended act of solidarity outright racist. What everyone should be able to agree on here, though, is that the resulting image looks very strange, very funny, and is actually very sweet. But maybe don’t do this again.
I googled around and couldn't find any specific background on Billy Haisley. He's light skinned and that's all I see about the dude. So, unless he grew up in Germany at any point in his life and his American side is too shocked to witness such a display, this bolded part is just soccer mom, knee jerk, American guilt and entitlement reaction. How that soccer team shows solidarity with their players is their business. He has no right to just respond in such a manner. In context, this was absolutely appropriate. Nothing of ill or malicious intent was done. It just looks unsettling because of our history with blackface in America.

What about the unbolded part?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:42 am

That's what "light skinned" refers to.

He could be any color, take that opinion, and still have no grounds for making that statement unless he's intimately involved in German soccer clubs as an American dude. And if he gave that opinion to those players, they'd look at him funny because he got mildly offended.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:45 am

Ryan wrote:What about the unbolded part?

It's fine. But then his last sentence makes it seem like he doesn't agree with it.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:49 am

Johnnie wrote:That's what "light skinned" refers to.

I thought that at first, but then you mentioned soccer moms and american guilt and that would seem like a really weird thing to put on a(n American) black dude talking about (international) black face.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:57 am

I was searching around but it was in a different iteration of the Swamp. I once compared black humor (i.e. joking about really unpleasant stuff) and satire to juggling with chainsaws, in that when it goes right, it's transcendent, but's so easy to fuck up and dismember yourself. Pru's student doesn't have the talent yet to do that.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:43 am

A_B wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
rass wrote:Holy shit. Fucking Canada man.

Was "Adolf" his attempt at passing this off as satire?
Adolf is - for some reason - a woman.

Kid is too dense to know what satire is. Hope he enjoys meeting with the head of the department on Tuesday to try to explain why this isn't racist. He'll go far in a multi-ethnic industry.

You turned him in?

Yeah - felt that I had to.

The students are pitching their series ideas - including their concepts for their pilot episodes - in front of all three sections of the course in a couple of weeks. Can't have him stand up in front of a very mixed group of students and spout this out.

Also, I figured that for my own security within the faculty, it was the smart thing to do. It gets out that the writing prof saw this and didn't do anything about it, than some difficult questions would have to be answered. I'm not risking my teaching career on that. The school where I work is not as caught up in all the PC stuff as other schools. For instance, there isn't a "safe space" and we don;t have to give "trigger warnings" in class. But every student is warned at orientation against making comments that will offend or alienate based on race, sexual identity etc.

Part of me feels like a bit of a weasel, but the other part of me has a mortgage.

On the one hand, if I don't report it to my supervisor, than there are only two people who've seen it, so what's the harm? (Unless he tells a room full of 60 students and 4 profs about what he wrote.)

On the other hand - and purely from an educational standpoint - this kid needs to know that if he plans on working around people of other backgrounds, than he has to learn not to produce shit like this.

His punishment will by a half hour lecture from the head of the department, and a warning to watch his mouth (and writing) when on campus. He'll pass the course and his marks won't be effected.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:02 am

I wrote this earlier, before your last post. I though I hit 'submit', but I guess not.

_________

Pruitt wrote:One student's series idea was a mockumentary starring a Crocodile Hunter sort of guy who tracked down and taught the viewer about different types of people.

Boy, I really want to defend the student here. He is not very funny or smart, but I think he has a limited right to, as L-Jam colorfully describes, dismember himself with his failed attempt.

I know that Canada is different, and that college campuses on either side of the border are different than my personal ethics and sensibilities regarding racist expression. I do not fully appreciate nor understand the constraints and 'new rules' in place. And the extent to which I do understand them, I have major problems and disagreements.

I think the kid has a right to a degree of freedom of expression in such a classroom exercise, and I mean freedom from excessive punishment or sanction. A right to try (and fail miserably) to use dangerous ideas about race and stereotypes in a creative effort at humor.

You (Pruitt) did warn him to stick to 'social types such as geeks, jocks and baristas'. Maybe (I'm speculating here, and please correct me) you thought it so obvious to avoid race that it was unnecessary to mention it specifically. Or you said specifically 'no racial stereotyping' and he earned a zero for violating your specific instruction.

I think the classroom of a university is exactly the correct place for expression of dangerous ideas. Of course, the proper classroom (not a physics lab) and the proper assignment or activity.

I want to hear what punishment he receives, if any beyond a zero grade and a chat with a school bureaucrat.

______

Glad to hear the additional detail and context. I don't blame you a bit for passing it on to a higher up.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:48 pm

howard wrote:I wrote this earlier, before your last post. I though I hit 'submit', but I guess not.

_________

Pruitt wrote:One student's series idea was a mockumentary starring a Crocodile Hunter sort of guy who tracked down and taught the viewer about different types of people.
Boy, I really want to defend the student here. He is not very funny or smart, but I think he has a limited right to, as L-Jam colorfully describes, dismember himself with his failed attempt.

I know that Canada is different, and that college campuses on either side of the border are different than my personal ethics and sensibilities regarding racist expression. I do not fully appreciate nor understand the constraints and 'new rules' in place. And the extent to which I do understand them, I have major problems and disagreements.

I think the kid has a right to a degree of freedom of expression in such a classroom exercise, and I mean freedom from excessive punishment or sanction. A right to try (and fail miserably) to use dangerous ideas about race and stereotypes in a creative effort at humor.

You (Pruitt) did warn him to stick to 'social types such as geeks, jocks and baristas'. Maybe (I'm speculating here, and please correct me) you thought it so obvious to avoid race that it was unnecessary to mention it specifically. Or you said specifically 'no racial stereotyping' and he earned a zero for violating your specific instruction.

I think the classroom of a university is exactly the correct place for expression of dangerous ideas. Of course, the proper classroom (not a physics lab) and the proper assignment or activity.

I want to hear what punishment he receives, if any beyond a zero grade and a chat with a school bureaucrat.

______

Glad to hear the additional detail and context. I don't blame you a bit for passing it on to a higher up.

How does the fact that this writeup would be presented in class, to the other students, play into your analysis on this? Because I think I agree with you if this was simply a writing assignment where no one sees it but the teacher. But I think it's difference once you present to other students.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:13 pm

I agree that the classroom is the place for creativity - and I stress this in my class.

But I also stress (in accordance with school regulations) that there can be no racist, homophobic, sexist materials produced in the class.

Second point - he will not fail the class nor be kicked out. His punishment will be a squirmy half hour with the head of the department.

And if he had pitched his premise to the 60 students - he'd be pitching to 14 black students.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:31 pm

Pruitt wrote:I agree that the classroom is the place for creativity - and I stress this in my class.

But I also stress (in accordance with school regulations) that there can be no racist, homophobic, sexist materials produced in the class.

Second point - he will not fail the class nor be kicked out. His punishment will be a squirmy half hour with the head of the department.

And if he had pitched his premise to the 60 students - he'd be pitching to 14 black students.

Maybe suggesting he make the pitch would be enough of a lesson that he'd understand. If not, he's fucking dense. At least as much as the assholes in your class with the earlobe spacers.