The Swamp

James Caan's entire check was worth it for that scene.

Mr. Henry playing the grand piano there never fails to make me laugh.

"There he goes and there he is."

"That kid Rocky always struck me as weird though. He said he loved you."
"No he was talking in English. That's how I understood him."
"Hey, wait he's a just a mixed-up kid!"

So...did Abe Henry invent the man-bun?

There are a lot of housekeepers at this hotel for 8 at night.

The second act is a little draggy at times, but it all gets paid off on this "heist" scene at the end.

"Who is that man?"

"That's Applejack! C'mon"

Watching this and thinking about some of the shots in "Rushmore" makes me wish Wes Anderson would make another movie that's a lot less stylized than his recent stuff. He does really well with visuals, but something more simplistic with another two decades of experience might make for something really great with more widespread appreciation.

"You can't do it because you never knew how in the first place!"

"I lost my touch."

"Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?"

Yeah, would be interesting to seem him tackle something more mundane like in this movie or in Rushmore again.

"They'll never catch me. Because I'm fuckin' innocent!"

Good break for Dignan he's white saving himself from probably being killed here.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:42 pm Yeah, would be interesting to seem him tackle something more mundane like in this movie or in Rushmore again.

Yeah, just throw in a perp walk in a big building and make it a trilogy.

"Wasco State Penitentiary" is an homage/reference to David Wasco, a very famous set designer.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:46 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:42 pm Yeah, would be interesting to seem him tackle something more mundane like in this movie or in Rushmore again.

Yeah, just throw in a perp walk in a big building and make it a trilogy.

Every live-action Wes Anderson movie features characters walking in slow-motion.

"Or I don't know. I don't care, give it to those guys. I don't have any hard feelings."

What a great fucking movie.

What's Owen Wilson's best role where he's not playing some sort of fuckup man-child?

Watching the credits you can see the actor who played Clay (Future Man's friend) is Brian Tenenbaum, a friend of the Wilsons and Anderson after whom the titular family of "The Royal Tenebaums" was named.

As much as I love Bottle Rocket and Rushmore, I think "The Royal Tenenbaums" will always be Anderson's masterpiece.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 pm What's Owen Wilson's best role where he's not playing some sort of fuckup man-child?

He wasn't that bad in "The Minus Man" really but he tends to gravitate to the roles you mentioned.

Another two hours I was able to forget about the raging pandemic killing our countrymen left and right, so mission accomplished, man!

I guess we’re accidentally doing two Luke Wilson movies in a row I just realized.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 pm What's Owen Wilson's best role where he's not playing some sort of fuckup man-child?

As mentioned, there are so few of them. So Behind Enemy Lines? Plus one of Hackman's final roles (along with, yeah, TRT).

I wanted to sleep on this take, but Dignan sucks. Nothing against Wilson, who while pretty one-note is fine, and I think Anderson wants us to like him (which might be something to hold against him). But he's not likable, or a loveable loser, he just suuuuuucks as a person. He spends the entire movie emotionally manipulating his friends in the service of getting them to risk arrest or their lives by committing armed robberies. And the fact that he isn't even good at planning the robberies is presented as a redeeming quality!

I think you can easily make the argument from what we can glean from the movie that he's been grooming Anthony for years. Anthony, who proves himself to be just a step above a simpleton at various points in the movie, and who is so oblivious to social and emotional cues that he keeps the picture of Inez's sister. Yet even after a (voluntary) stay at a mental health facility (a stay that Dignan later shames him with because it left Dignan alone), he's so attuned to and concerned with Dignan's needs that he fakes an escape and robs his own family's house just because Dignan "needs" it. It also doesn't take too much consideration for Dignan's book planning out 50 years of their lives together to go from cute to chilling. I'll stop short of baseless speculation on why Anthony needed to go away in the first place, but...

Falling for Inez it isn't enough to force Anthony to break away from Dignan (you could argue that Inez's apparent rejection should be taken into account, but even before that Anthony expected her to leave with them - he was never going to stay without Dignan). It isn't until Dignan himself chooses to reject Anthony's friendship by physically attacking him that Anthony is able to get away, at least for a little while. Anthony inarguably spends that time apart selflessly helping others. He volunteers in the community and works to help Bob repay his debts to his brother. Bob's brother's arrest at least is not Dignan's fault and at worst was indirectly a situation made worse by their getaway after the book store robbery. That didn't stop Dignan from making himself the victim of Futureman's arrest. Even Bob, whose parents are physically and emotionally absent (making him a prime target for an experienced abuser, huh?), who we have seen be physically and emotionally abused by his brother, who despite all of that manages to do what Anthony couldn't and makes his own choice to leave Dignan, is drawn back after yet another physical confrontation with Dignan. And that is only made possible by Dignan worming his way back into Anthony's life (with some help from Mr. Henry).

His sole moment of redemption comes when he convinces Anthony to leave, sparing him from being arrested, but he makes sure Anthony and Bob know that he sacrificed for them ("CRS") and then plays on their guilt with his "jailbreak" "joke". Fuck that guy.

Sorry again for missing this. Anyway, here are the things I was planning to mention:

- This is my favorite Wes Anderson movie (by far) and, maybe not coincidentally, his least Wes Anderson-y one. I like most of his others, but I think this one benefits from being made at the beginning of his career when he needed to have at least some appeal to normal people to be marketable.

- brian will never believe this, but Bill Simmons hates Wes Anderson movies and doesn't get their appeal.

- Anthony's little sister is one of like three kid actors I've seen who are actually good without grading on a curve.

- Dignan backing off after the book store manager says "Don't call me an idiot, you punk" was great.

- Also great: "It's a leaf."

- Apple Jack and Rowboat are fucking great character names and should have had recurring roles in Anderson's other movies.

- It took me like 10 viewings to notice that Apple Jack reaches over and locks the van door from the inside, proving he was faking the heart attack.

- The character in this movie was my first reference for the name "Bob Maplethorpe." I didn't learn about the guy who took photos of dicks until later.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:32 pm James Caan's entire check was worth it for that scene.

- Was this the "Your brother's a cocksucker" scene?

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:39 am I wanted to sleep on this take, but Dignan sucks etc...

- All this could be true for Ferris Bueller as well, right?

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:14 am Sorry again for missing this. Anyway, here are the things I was planning to mention:

- All this could be true for Ferris Bueller as well, right?

I HATE Ferris Beuller's Day Off because he is an insufferable prick.

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:14 am

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:39 am I wanted to sleep on this take, but Dignan sucks etc...

- All this could be true for Ferris Bueller as well, right?

Fair enough point to debate. While Ferris definitely worked Cameron into getting out of bed and especially into taking the Ferrari, I also take the "he's gonna marry the first girl he lays" speech at face value and think he has some concern and regard for Cameron's well-being. Hard to say Dignan ever gives a shit about Anthony or Bob beyond getting them to buy into his plans and be part of his gang. And all of that just for a larger goal to ultimately benefit Dignan.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:56 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 pm What's Owen Wilson's best role where he's not playing some sort of fuckup man-child?

He wasn't that bad in "The Minus Man" really but he tends to gravitate to the roles you mentioned.

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:18 amAs mentioned, there are so few of them. So Behind Enemy Lines? Plus one of Hackman's final roles (along with, yeah, TRT).

I think I liked him in "The Big Bounce" (it was along time ago and I think I watched it on a plane), but he was playing the lead in a movie based on an Elmore Leonard book, so there was a lot of stuff already going for him that had nothing to do with his performance (Morgan Freeman, Gary Sinise, Sara Foster, Willie Nelson).

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:39 am I wanted to sleep on this take, but Dignan sucks.

I really liked this analysis and clipped it down for space reasons only.

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:14 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:32 pm James Caan's entire check was worth it for that scene.

- Was this the "Your brother's a cocksucker" scene?

The country club confrontation scene as a whole.

I think a lot of Dignan's faults can be explained or excused by the fact he's obviously suffered some emotional (if not physical) abuse in his life. We know he's been friends with Anthony for a long time and we can deduce he comes from a much lower social strata than Anthony ("You know there's nothing to steal from my mom and Craig"). He's also a child of divorce. Anthony obviously comes from an upper middle class upbringing at worst judging from his ritzy mental "resort", his sister's private school and summer camps, and of course the fairly quick view we get of his house during the "robbery".

The dynamics of their relationship pre-Anthony's mental breakdown are never explained, but it's possible that Dignan's attempt at becoming the "alpha" in their "gang" was Dignan overcompensating in response to Anthony's mental breakdown and believing that what Anthony really needs is structure and he, his best friend Dignan is the one who can provide.

Of course, what we learn over the movie is that Anthony is really more or less fine and merely indulges his friend his flights of fancy. I don't ever get the sense that Anthony is really manipulated in any real way. He's always able to push back on Dignan ("Are the helicopters really necessary?" even if the response ("Why you undermining me, man?") is a little needy.

He also asserts himself several times in the second act when he leaves Dignan to pursue Inez. And yes, Dignan is whiny about it, but he has cast himself as the hero to help his friend reclaim his life by giving him structure, which Anthony almost immediately rejects post-bookstore robbery ("Sorry, I'm not cutting my hair." "Then you my friend are a damn fool. Let's go Bob!)

The dynamic between Dignan and Bob is interesting and could be argued that Bob is 10x more of a "victim" of Dignan than Anthony, but Bob basically exists in the universe of the movie to be a punching bag anyway (literally and figuratively).

I think the dynamic between Anthony and Dignan is just that of really, really, really good old friends. And everyone hopefully has at least one friend that they've known since grade school or middle school who they'd do just about anything for. For Anthony, that's Dignan.

Love it

They’re all innocent IMO.