2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by Steve of phpBB »

tennbengal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:56 am No, Delaware, this isn't what "ends" Trump. But it's a bigger deal than you are making out. This isn't the only story the Times will do on it - they've apparently got a series of stories coming. The bigger story here isn't that he doesn't pay taxes, I would assume everyone knew that. The bigger story is going to be who has bailed him out, who he owes money to, and the machinations around that. On top of all that, it will dominate the news cycle for awhile five weeks before the election where Biden needs to run up the score as much as possible just to squeak out a win. This will likely help that effort at the margins.
I think even paying $750 in taxes is a big deal, as are the other aspects of the story. I didn't know that Trump paid no taxes, I assume that like Romney, he found a way to pay a smaller percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary does, but still a seven- or eight-figure amount. Like he apparently did for a couple of years before he claimed that $72 million refund.

Plus, the tax fraud, the embarrassing losses, and the apparent confirmation of massive personal debt.

I think if Trump actually paid zero tax, it'd be less damaging than the fact that he paid a laughably small amount *after becoming President and undertaking the obligation to serve the country*. It's like $750 is the perfect amount to mock him and attack him for.

I don't think Trump will walk off the stage or do anything extra insane at the debate. He's just continue to deny the story, and the moderator will move on. When a witness just denies, denies, denies, there's nothing you can do without a document to put in front of him/the court/the jury/the audience.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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tennbengal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:16 am
rass wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:25 am Delaware
I could pretend that was a Tottenham shout out but...it was not.
It looks like a cheesy DOT program to get people to look both ways before crossing the street.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:48 am
tennbengal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:56 am No, Delaware, this isn't what "ends" Trump. But it's a bigger deal than you are making out. This isn't the only story the Times will do on it - they've apparently got a series of stories coming. The bigger story here isn't that he doesn't pay taxes, I would assume everyone knew that. The bigger story is going to be who has bailed him out, who he owes money to, and the machinations around that. On top of all that, it will dominate the news cycle for awhile five weeks before the election where Biden needs to run up the score as much as possible just to squeak out a win. This will likely help that effort at the margins.
I think even paying $750 in taxes is a big deal, as are the other aspects of the story. I didn't know that Trump paid no taxes, I assume that like Romney, he found a way to pay a smaller percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary does, but still a seven- or eight-figure amount. Like he apparently did for a couple of years before he claimed that $72 million refund.

Plus, the tax fraud, the embarrassing losses, and the apparent confirmation of massive personal debt.

I think if Trump actually paid zero tax, it'd be less damaging than the fact that he paid a laughably small amount *after becoming President and undertaking the obligation to serve the country*. It's like $750 is the perfect amount to mock him and attack him for.

I don't think Trump will walk off the stage or do anything extra insane at the debate. He's just continue to deny the story, and the moderator will move on. When a witness just denies, denies, denies, there's nothing you can do without a document to put in front of him/the court/the jury/the audience.
My understanding is that the reason the NY State AG is going after Trump's tax returns is that they are prosecuting bank fraud, in that Trump exaggerated his assets to obtain loans, and they will show he undervalued the same assets on his tax returns. He's admitted to doing this in the past, and calls it smart business, despite the practice being both bank fraud and tax fraud.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Yeah, just from that Twitter thread, pulled from the NYT documents, he's well over $1B in debt. The vast majority of it is coming due in the next 2-3 years.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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BSF21 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 am
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 am
A_B wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:17 am When will he cancel the debate? Today or just not show up?
I think he will walk off during the debate. Tweet that it was fixed for Biden and refuse to do another. The guy loves TV time not to show up.

And in regards to Ivanka. Her or him will never be charged, prosecuted, or anything for this. Sad

And Trump supporters are loving what he has done. Saying shit like Trump is great for beating a corrupt Tax shield or Fuck Taxnation.
Something Dan Carlin put well in his last podcast rings true here. As much as many of us want to see the motherfucker burn. To be prosecuted to the fullest extent to pay for his crimes and grifts, that's not the right option at this time. At least not to present it that way. None of this "lock him up" bullshit. You give him a way to gracefully exit out of this shitshow once he gets drubbed out and you'll find many of his supporters will follow the same rhetoric of "well I never really cared anyway I didn't lose I quite, etc".

Don't back a wounded animal in a corner and give it no option but to fight to the death. That result benefits no one nor the process of restoring any kind of political civility in this country.
That's fine in the immediate, but it's not just some sense of vindictiveness that has many people calling for his head. It's the precedent that needs to be totally addressed and undone. We need to rework emoluments and many other laws to make sure no one can pull this shit again.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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The part about these debts--secured by a relatively small and not very diversified portfolio of commercial properties--coming due in the next 2-3 years was quite a bombshell to me. It puts his desperate tone on reopening the economy in a new light.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by tennbengal »

Rex wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:11 am The part about these debts--secured by a relatively small and not very diversified portfolio of commercial properties--coming due in the next 2-3 years was quite a bombshell to me. It puts his desperate tone on reopening the economy in a new light.
yup. Covid has been VERY inconvenient for...his finances.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:07 amThat's fine in the immediate, but it's not just some sense of vindictiveness that has many people calling for his head. It's the precedent that needs to be totally addressed and undone. We need to rework emoluments and many other laws to make sure no one can pull this shit again.
I think we end up with both a Trump pardon and a massive investigation/hearings/report into the Trump term and all the various ways he and his people stole from the country and subverted their governmental duties to political ones.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:07 am
BSF21 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 am
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 am
A_B wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:17 am When will he cancel the debate? Today or just not show up?
I think he will walk off during the debate. Tweet that it was fixed for Biden and refuse to do another. The guy loves TV time not to show up.

And in regards to Ivanka. Her or him will never be charged, prosecuted, or anything for this. Sad

And Trump supporters are loving what he has done. Saying shit like Trump is great for beating a corrupt Tax shield or Fuck Taxnation.
Something Dan Carlin put well in his last podcast rings true here. As much as many of us want to see the motherfucker burn. To be prosecuted to the fullest extent to pay for his crimes and grifts, that's not the right option at this time. At least not to present it that way. None of this "lock him up" bullshit. You give him a way to gracefully exit out of this shitshow once he gets drubbed out and you'll find many of his supporters will follow the same rhetoric of "well I never really cared anyway I didn't lose I quite, etc".

Don't back a wounded animal in a corner and give it no option but to fight to the death. That result benefits no one nor the process of restoring any kind of political civility in this country.
That's fine in the immediate, but it's not just some sense of vindictiveness that has many people calling for his head. It's the precedent that needs to be totally addressed and undone. We need to rework emoluments and many other laws to make sure no one can pull this shit again.
I agree. But letting his cult know in no uncertain terms that you intend to put him in town square for all to see the moment after you're in power is damaging. I'm not saying it doesn't need to be done and that those responsible for this mess should be held accountable, but much like all of this, don't do it to your own detriment because you want revenge or "what's fair". Lose a battle, win a country back.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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I'm not disagreeing with you, but hooboy is it rich to have to pander to the Lock Her Up crowd when you've got actual criminality and fraud being perpetrated by their golden boy every minute of the gd day.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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As a dude with a security clearance, his debt pisses me off. Hell, the fact that Jared has access to classified material and no one has really gone after him pisses me off.

It just shows me the entire government is full of hypocrites and that there are separate rules for rich people just like with everything. That begets apathy. And when Trump and his crime family doesn't go to jail and get off scot-free, it'll be people like me that the eventual people in power will blame.

The whole apparatus and people insulating him need to be strung up like Mussolini. But that won't happen because the country will need to "heal" or some shit.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:33 am I'm not disagreeing with you, but hooboy is it rich to have to pander to the Lock Her Up crowd when you've got actual criminality and fraud being perpetrated by their golden boy every minute of the gd day.
Same team bud. Same.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am there are separate rules for rich people just like with everything.
This is what should inspire top-down change.

But it won't.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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DSafetyGuy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm
Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am there are separate rules for rich people just like with everything.
This is what should inspire top-down change.

But it won't.
Not when you can convince 40 percent of the people who are getting fucked by the billionaire class that it's more important to hate Blacks, gays and anyone else who isn't a "good Christian" like "them".
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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brian wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm
Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am there are separate rules for rich people just like with everything.
This is what should inspire top-down change.

But it won't.
Not when you can convince 40 percent of the people who are getting fucked by the billionaire class that it's more important to hate Blacks, gays and anyone else who isn't a "good Christian" like "them".
You also need to turn people against the Democratic party, too.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Already seeing it in responses to tweets, but the right wing twitter response appears to be to blame democrats for setting up stupid tax laws that he has to follow. No surprise, but zero reflection on the fact that this indicates that he is both a bad businessman and a ridiculous tax cheat. Just acceptance that it’s ok.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Monmouth has Biden up +5 now, as he was +7 the last poll, and even high as +12 a month ago.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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DSafetyGuy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm
Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am there are separate rules for rich people just like with everything.
This is what should inspire top-down change.

But it won't.
Exactly. The biggest takeaway for me from the NYT article is how fucked the system is, not that he only paid $750. There may be bank fraud, and tax evasion, but this is only 1/2 of what you'd need to prove it.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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I think the focus should be on his enormous debt, not the amount of taxes he paid. With emphasis on the clout held by the debt holder.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Please be real
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Seems to be.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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sancarlos wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:50 pm I think the focus should be on his enormous debt, not the amount of taxes he paid. With emphasis on the clout held by the debt holder.
The focus should be on all of it. The selfishness and lack of duty that lets him decide to pay $750 in taxes. The fact that he's such a bad businessman that he's losing his ass and has mountains of debt. And the fact that we don't know who he owes that money to and thus who has leverage over him.

It's all fucking golden.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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It's been fun watching Republicans trying to defend this by saying he didn't break any laws and all wealthy people do this, then answer "then doesn't this show we need to change the tax laws so wealthy people pay their fair share?"
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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OOf. It may be a good article but I don't like to rely on Forbes much for real news anymore.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Maybe 30% never waver from backing Trump because he owes them money.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Yeah, the reporters said he paid taxes form 2005-08 and then demanded it all back in refund (PLUS INTEREST).

GFD, pay attention.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Just curious, but what point are you making by posting this Tweet? Wasn't this the return that Trump leaked 3 years ago?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Can't believe you all haven't blocked him yet. He's clearly trolling.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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This is very promising:

One million Americans have already cast 2020 vote in ‘historic’ early voting surge

I'm proud to say I'm one of them!

ETA

Huh. Double checked the states polled. New Mexico isn't one of them. I definitely voted -- by email no less -- and received an email back that it was received and will be forwarded to state clerk's absentee ballot office.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:47 pm Monmouth has Biden up +5 now, as he was +7 the last poll, and even high as +12 a month ago.
I'm thinking you are a bot at this point.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:57 pm
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:47 pm Monmouth has Biden up +5 now, as he was +7 the last poll, and even high as +12 a month ago.
I'm thinking you are a bot at this point.
Nah, I just know how much you love Polls.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:05 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:57 pm
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:47 pm Monmouth has Biden up +5 now, as he was +7 the last poll, and even high as +12 a month ago.
I'm thinking you are a bot at this point.
Nah, I just know how much you love Polls.
That poll still has Biden at 50%, and Trump at 45%. The 538 average seems to have stabilized at Biden around 50 and Trump around 43.

Unless Biden starts talking about wearing an onion on his belt tomorrow, I feel pretty good right now.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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tennbengal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:29 pm Can't believe you all haven't blocked him yet. He's clearly trolling.
At best he's a shitposter, but I don't think he realizes it. Maybe my comment a few months ago when he returned makes more sense now.
http://sportsfrog.net/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 64#p285764
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by EdRomero »

Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:10 pm
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:05 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:57 pm
psunate77 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:47 pm Monmouth has Biden up +5 now, as he was +7 the last poll, and even high as +12 a month ago.
I'm thinking you are a bot at this point.
Nah, I just know how much you love Polls.
That poll still has Biden at 50%, and Trump at 45%. The 538 average seems to have stabilized at Biden around 50 and Trump around 43.

Unless Biden starts talking about wearing an onion on his belt tomorrow, I feel pretty good right now.
NPR did a thing about that today: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09 ... ideo-audio

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Solid tackle.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Dude is 6-foot-8 and has to be three bills, so absolutely.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by sancarlos »

testuser2 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:13 pm
tennbengal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:29 pm Can't believe you all haven't blocked him yet. He's clearly trolling.
At best he's a shitposter, but I don't think he realizes it. Maybe my comment a few months ago when he returned makes more sense now.
http://sportsfrog.net/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 64#p285764
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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... because that middle school girl was insufferable about Penn State football as a main victim of the Sandusky rapes.
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