The Swamp

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 pm Whether or not you believe them, the RNC said earlier this week that they’ve knocked on 12 million doors since June.

I view the moral calculus as similar to the justifications given by many Dems for the huge protests earlier this summer. While yes, it’s good to limit contact, some issues are important enough to justify it. Preventing Trump’s re-election, like racial justice protests, is one of them.

Isn't the problem volunteers? People will freely join a protest (usually supporting a friend) but less likely to volunteer to knock on doors.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:59 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 pm Whether or not you believe them, the RNC said earlier this week that they’ve knocked on 12 million doors since June.

I view the moral calculus as similar to the justifications given by many Dems for the huge protests earlier this summer. While yes, it’s good to limit contact, some issues are important enough to justify it. Preventing Trump’s re-election, like racial justice protests, is one of them.

Isn't the problem volunteers? People will freely join a protest (usually supporting a friend) but less likely to volunteer to knock on doors.

People will volunteer. But of course a lot of them will be college students or grad students etc. Do you want them knocking on your door right now?

Serious question, do any of you guys who are opposed to Biden doing door knocking live in cities? Because I talk to neighbors, store owners, etc. almost every night when I take my dog for a walk. People in STL have been pretty responsible about masks and distancing but human contact and talking is still a standard part of daily life. Having a masked Biden volunteer knock on my door would neither upset me nor make me think that I was being put at any additional risk above baseline. But I can imagine that things are different in the suburbs. Thinking of the suburban towns I lived in growing up, I can see that human contact could be virtually nonexistent there for the last few months.

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:58 pm Serious question, do any of you guys who are opposed to Biden doing door knocking live in cities? Because I talk to neighbors, store owners, etc. almost every night when I take my dog for a walk. People in STL have been pretty responsible about masks and distancing but human contact and talking is still a standard part of daily life. Having a masked Biden volunteer knock on my door would neither upset me nor make me think that I was being put at any additional risk above baseline. But I can imagine that things are different in the suburbs. Thinking of the suburban towns I lived in growing up, I can see that human contact could be virtually nonexistent there for the last few months.

People are weird about people coming to your door here even before the pandemic, but that's partly a Las Vegas thing. But I think it could be a potential negative in a lot of areas.

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:58 pm Serious question, do any of you guys who are opposed to Biden doing door knocking live in cities? Because I talk to neighbors, store owners, etc. almost every night when I take my dog for a walk. People in STL have been pretty responsible about masks and distancing but human contact and talking is still a standard part of daily life. Having a masked Biden volunteer knock on my door would neither upset me nor make me think that I was being put at any additional risk above baseline. But I can imagine that things are different in the suburbs. Thinking of the suburban towns I lived in growing up, I can see that human contact could be virtually nonexistent there for the last few months.

Its not that human contact is unwanted or not happening, its that this removes the resident from that process. At a minimum, they're touching a door or doorbell which for some people is still a big deal. Invasive at a time where the complete opposite should be the standard.

If I’m out I don’t mind it at all but I don’t care for people just coming to my door, several of whom were not wearing masks. Not been more than a couple of political, mostly cable companies and pest service.

There was a guy doing door-to-door sales back in May and he was getting shot down pretty harshly.

Don't come to my door during a pandemic. I mean, leave me the fuck alone in general. But right now? C'mon.

FWIW, some analysis on whether or how much door-to-door canvassing matters.

https://www.vox.com/21366036/canvass-gr ... ds-mailers

(I have a feeling no one really knows, because presidential campaigns are so rare and every one is different from all the others.)

"Baby killer!"

Hat tip to Bobby Fivesides ...

1. This is good action.

2. I hope Dems are ready to counter "he shouldn't be allowed to pay off someone else's debt" by throwing Kavanaugh back in the spotlight.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:40 am2. I hope Dems are ready to counter "he shouldn't be allowed to pay off someone else's debt" by throwing Kavanaugh back in the spotlight.

Does having fines and restitution paid off by a third party count as "income"? Watch Florida prosecute all these folks for tax evasion next year.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:07 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:40 am2. I hope Dems are ready to counter "he shouldn't be allowed to pay off someone else's debt" by throwing Kavanaugh back in the spotlight.

Does having fines and restitution paid off by a third party count as "income"? Watch Florida prosecute all these folks for tax evasion next year.

That's downright DeSantian. Speaking of which, any of you catch this shit from our feckless leader?

This should give Biden a bump in Arizona?

Regarding I-B, has anyone pointed out that when Rightists intentionally direct a vehicle into innocent people that they are literally doing the same thing Mohammad Atta did?

They don't call him Ron DeathSentence for nothing.

Michelle Bachmann makes an excellent point. If Biden is elected, the Dems will turn the US into a Marxist government within the first 100 days!

What does that even mean, that the government is going to take control of every business in the entire country and hand it over to the employees? Or is the government going to run every single business for the benefit of the citizenry, which is more of a Communist scheme. I know Marxist is just used as a bogeyman scare tactic, but WTF? This doesn't even make sense. At least "the Dems will take all your guns" makes sense. And 100 days? You couldn't get the Dems to agree on a press release in 100 days let alone radically alter the entire economic system.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:51 pm Michelle Bachmann makes an excellent point. If Biden is elected, the Dems will turn the US into a Marxist government within the first 100 days!

Not that I want them to have effective messaging, but it’s really bizarre to me that the GOP has gone with the nonsensical “Biden is the reincarnation of V.I. Lenin” argument instead of arguing that he’s an ineffective career politician. Maybe it’s because “ineffective career politician” is preferable to “incompetent and erratic sociopath.”

Here’s DeSantis’s move ...

It's bad. I can say it for this country. He won't leave. Democracy ended in 2016. There will have to be military intervention to get him out. If there isn't, he isn't leaving.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:19 pm It's bad. I can say it for this country. He won't leave. Democracy ended in 2016. There will have to be military intervention to get him out. If there isn't, he isn't leaving.

And sadly there won't be military intervention.. The acting Generals are on his side. Most of them at least.

But some one also said he may be saying shit to scare people not to vote like what the fuck is point to vote if he doesn't leave..

Trump will be the president until he dies, he has all the chips in place now, he has all the pressure on others too help him. Best Dems can do is win the senate and congress. Wouldn't shock me if he has it he can just name his successor when his time is up since he wants to get rid of the ballots.

I’m pretty sure the active generals hate him.

Where on the fuck do you get your information?

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:28 pm I’m pretty sure the active generals hate him.

Where on the fuck do you get your information?

We will see, saying is one thing, doing is another.

General McCaffrey said Military won't get involved or remove him cause it's a political issue.

psunate77 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:34 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:28 pm I’m pretty sure the active generals hate him.

Where on the fuck do you get your information?

We will see, saying is one thing, doing is another.

General McCaffrey said Military won't get involved or remove him cause it's a political issue.

If he loses and refuses to leave it is no longer a political issue it’s a constitutional one.

The fact that we are sitting here right now questioning whether Trump would actually leave if he’s voted out is reason enough to tell every Trump supporter to fuck themselves.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:39 pmIf he loses and refuses to leave it is no longer a political issue it’s a constitutional one.

But you're treating losing as a factual certainty in a post-fact era. Anything can and will be contested and I don't believe the military would see it as their role to intervene in what will be framed as a legal matter.

Well I’m certainly not going to debate bullshit on both sides of the argument.

Here
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/0 ... em/167661/

Trump won’t have a choice whether to stay or go. All these “will you leave” questions do is falsely suggest it’ll be up to Trump. It isn’t. And of course if you ask a politician what’ll happen if he loses, he’ll say “I won’t lose.” But because it’s Trump, he says it in the most reckless and horrible way possible.

The courts can fuck shit up if given the chance. A few state legislatures can fuck shit up too. But the electors will be appointed and they’ll vote in their respective state capitals on December 14, and if someone gets a majority they’ll take office on January 20.

I hope you’re right, but “it can’t happen because this is America” only holds until it happens in America.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:47 pm Trump won’t have a choice whether to stay or go. All these “will you leave” questions do is falsely suggest it’ll be up to Trump. It isn’t. And of course if you ask a politician what’ll happen if he loses, he’ll say “I won’t lose.” But because it’s Trump, he says it in the most reckless and horrible way possible.

The courts can fuck shit up if given the chance. A few state legislatures can fuck shit up too. But the electors will be appointed and they’ll vote in their respective state capitals on December 14, and if someone gets a majority they’ll take office on January 20.

Isn't he trying to get his own electors in place? He is going to be ahead at midnight on the 3rd and anything after that he will demand be torn up.

psunate77 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:54 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:47 pm Trump won’t have a choice whether to stay or go. All these “will you leave” questions do is falsely suggest it’ll be up to Trump. It isn’t. And of course if you ask a politician what’ll happen if he loses, he’ll say “I won’t lose.” But because it’s Trump, he says it in the most reckless and horrible way possible.

The courts can fuck shit up if given the chance. A few state legislatures can fuck shit up too. But the electors will be appointed and they’ll vote in their respective state capitals on December 14, and if someone gets a majority they’ll take office on January 20.

Isn't he trying to get his own electors in place? He is going to be ahead at midnight on the 3rd and anything after that he will demand be torn up.

He can demand whatever the fuck he wants. He has no power over vote counting or certification.

Steve, if someone walks onto your lawn with their dick out, maybe helicoptering it around, what can you do? First option is you can physically remove them yourself; say ‘fuck off I'm throwing you out of here’ and they’re out and it’s resolved. That’s good. Probably not reality for most of us but best case. Second option is call the cops and trust they’ll intervene and 15 minutes from now it’ll all be good and the dick guy is gone. But what if they don’t respond. What’s your third option, where you’re not willing to return aggression with aggression (because you have more to lose) and the cops are too busy or too conflicted elsewhere to act? What’s the fallback response?

If some guy was helicoptering his dick in my front yard, well, I’m just not sure I could hold my tongue.

NTTAWWT

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:29 pm If some guy was helicoptering his dick in my front yard, well, I’m just not sure I could hold my tongue.

Not if you want to impress you can’t.

(You know the analogy I’m making and you know the absolute dependence on 3rd parties all of these “it can’t happen” scenarios depend on. You are not doing shit because doing shit is a huge risk and that’s a universal fear for different reasons.)