The Swamp

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:08 am**

Yeah, the only time sports talk is good is during near-universal optimistic moments, like when the Jets were rumored to be trading for a no-red-flags franchise QB about 6 weeks back.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:10 am**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:04 am Yeah, I also view my elimination of sports talk radio as a great improvement in my life. Music instead of self-important ranting and angry bad takes.

My god yes.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:23 am**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 pm
brian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:57 pm It was a topic on social media starting nearly immediately. It didn't start with McAfee.
Amongst anyone who normally isn’t an idiot? (Seriously asking. I’ve not seen anyone who is usually a serious person argue that Edelman should get into the Hall of Fame without paying the $40 admission like you or I.)
It was just randoms discussing with randoms whether or not Edelman was good enough. There were two sides. A "yes" side and a "no" side. I didn't take names, but the topic came up immediately.

It only makes sense it went mainstream. It'll probably be on a take show too.

Not that I am advocating for Edelman to in the HoF, but the reason it was brought up is because of his post-season stats. Same reason that people argue for Eli to in the HoF. Plus as was mentioned talk radio needs fodder, and Boston sports radio is hoorendous.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:26 am**

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:23 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 pm
brian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:57 pm It was a topic on social media starting nearly immediately. It didn't start with McAfee.
Amongst anyone who normally isn’t an idiot? (Seriously asking. I’ve not seen anyone who is usually a serious person argue that Edelman should get into the Hall of Fame without paying the $40 admission like you or I.)
It was just randoms discussing with randoms whether or not Edelman was good enough. There were two sides. A "yes" side and a "no" side. I didn't take names, but the topic came up immediately.

It only makes sense it went mainstream. It'll probably be on a take show too.
Not that I am advocating for Edelman to in the HoF, but the reason it was brought up is because of his post-season stats. Same reason that people argue for Eli to in the HoF. Plus as was mentioned talk radio needs fodder, and Boston sports radio is hoorendous.

Well. Eli does rank in the top 10 of the most important (to voters) counting stats at his position and never missed a game. Edelman does...not.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:36 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:08 am Yeah, the only time sports talk is good is during near-universal optimistic moments, like when the Jets were rumored to be trading for a no-red-flags franchise QB about 6 weeks back.

Ha! I was all in on trading for Watson. Imagine if the Jets got him (and they would have given up way too much) and the scandal dropped a couple days later? Would have been the most Jets thing ever.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:41 am**

Looks like the players are going to butt heads with the management and coaches over offseason Covid protocols. Go players!

A good quote, here:

Cleveland Browns center and union president J.C. Tretter...

“The NFL doesn’t get to decide when the pandemic is over, or when we get to stop caring about COVID,” Tretter said in March on a call with reporters. “Our guys can still get [COVID-19]. They don’t want to make themselves vulnerable to that during unnecessary practices in the springtime.”

The NFL has indicated that its expectation is that players will be back on the field with in-person activity similar to a relatively normal, pre-pandemic cycle, and it's expected to begin Monday.

Bucs, Broncos, Lions, Seahawks players say they won't show up to voluntary workouts without COVID protocols

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:47 am**

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:36 am
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:08 am Yeah, the only time sports talk is good is during near-universal optimistic moments, like when the Jets were rumored to be trading for a no-red-flags franchise QB about 6 weeks back.
Ha! I was all in on trading for Watson. Imagine if the Jets got him (and they would have given up way too much) and the scandal dropped a couple days later? Would have been the most Jets thing ever.

Instead it's the most Houston thing ever.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:53 am**

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:26 am
Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:23 amNot that I am advocating for Edelman to in the HoF, but the reason it was brought up is because of his post-season stats. Same reason that people argue for Eli to in the HoF. Plus as was mentioned talk radio needs fodder, and Boston sports radio is hoorendous.
Well. Eli does rank in the top 10 of the most important (to voters) counting stats at his position and never missed a game. Edelman does...not.

Once Marshawn gets in, LeGarrette Blount will be the only RB with double digit postseason TDs that isn't in the HoF. Something to consider when his case gets presented.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm**

Is Clowney actually good?

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 pm**

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm Is Clowney actually good?

He's better than the cardboard cutout they had in that spot before they signed him.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:25 pm**

Sabo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 pm
Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm Is Clowney actually good?
He's better than the cardboard cutout they had in that spot before they signed him.

Yeah? Maybe? Wasn't Olivier Vernon quite good, in fact?

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:17 pm**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:25 pm
Sabo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 pm
Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm Is Clowney actually good?
He's better than the cardboard cutout they had in that spot before they signed him.
Yeah? Maybe? Wasn't Olivier Vernon quite good, in fact?

Yep, until he tore his Achilles. And then Vernon was replaced by the cardboard cutout.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:01 pm**

duff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:49 am
Giff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:47 am A guy who has zero reason to be in the HoF due to not having a HoF career should not be discussed about possibly going to the HoF. Sports media is just awful.
But he was a Patriot and played the game as it is supposed to be played. With grit and determination (because he is white).

The aggressive response to how he shouldn't be in the Hall far, far outweighs the very few voices who say he should be in (so far Brian found a former barstool employee Colts punter and is that it?). Has a retirement immediately been followed so quickly by so many people saying he shouldn't be in the Hall? Maybe that's for being a Patriot.

He had such a unique career with so many playoff and Super Bowl highlights, and he has a lovable/hateable personality but I guess we just want to do hot take sports talk radio here.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:08 pm**

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm Is Clowney actually good?

He's good enough to be in the HoF if he was a Patriot!

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:34 pm**

It wasn't just that set. Fuckin' Albert Breer too. For a guy with 36 career TDs. It's a shitty idea and a shitty conversation.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:56 pm**

EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:01 pm
duff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:49 am
Giff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:47 am A guy who has zero reason to be in the HoF due to not having a HoF career should not be discussed about possibly going to the HoF. Sports media is just awful.
But he was a Patriot and played the game as it is supposed to be played. With grit and determination (because he is white).
The aggressive response to how he shouldn't be in the Hall far, far outweighs the very few voices who say he should be in (so far Brian found a former barstool employee Colts punter and is that it?). Has a retirement immediately been followed so quickly by so many people saying he shouldn't be in the Hall? Maybe that's for being a Patriot.

He had such a unique career with so many playoff and Super Bowl highlights, and he has a lovable/hateable personality but I guess we just want to do hot take sports talk radio here.

Oh yes, RINGZ!

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:01 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:56 pm
EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:01 pm
duff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:49 am
Giff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:47 am A guy who has zero reason to be in the HoF due to not having a HoF career should not be discussed about possibly going to the HoF. Sports media is just awful.
But he was a Patriot and played the game as it is supposed to be played. With grit and determination (because he is white).
The aggressive response to how he shouldn't be in the Hall far, far outweighs the very few voices who say he should be in (so far Brian found a former barstool employee Colts punter and is that it?). Has a retirement immediately been followed so quickly by so many people saying he shouldn't be in the Hall? Maybe that's for being a Patriot.

He had such a unique career with so many playoff and Super Bowl highlights, and he has a lovable/hateable personality but I guess we just want to do hot take sports talk radio here.
Oh yes, RINGZ!

You and Giff are dominating this strawman argument.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:02 pm**

Sabo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 pm
Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:18 pm Is Clowney actually good?
He's better than the cardboard cutout they had in that spot before they signed him.

Good enough for me.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:13 pm**

The fact that I even saw one poll/tweet/question about him being in the HoF makes this not a strawman argument. It's an absurd question. If the Oilers had won a Super Bowl or two and someone asked if Ernest Givens should be in the HoF immediately after he retired, I'd fucking laugh my ass off.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 pm**

Bernie Williams is 2nd all-time in playoff hits and Andy Pettitte is 1st all-time in playoff wins.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm**

Giff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:13 pm The fact that I even saw one poll/tweet/question about him being in the HoF makes this not a strawman argument. It's an absurd question. If the Oilers had won a Super Bowl or two and someone asked if Ernest Givens should be in the HoF immediately after he retired, I'd fucking laugh my ass off.

There were tweets, questions, polls about whether or not Robert Horry (along with Bernie Williams and Andy Pettitte) should be a Hall of Famer. Those were ignored.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:56 pm**

Harder to ignore Pettitte since he's pretty damn close even without the postseason ; )

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:01 pm**

If horry had been the number two guy on a couple of those teams he’d be a lock. But he was a glue guy who hit big shots. Like say, Edelman.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:28 pm**

Petitte, Horry and Williams are all closer to being first ballot Hall of Famers than Edelman is a regular one. If you doubled his career stats it would still be a questionable case.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:19 am**

This much digital ink wasn't spilled when Steve Smith retired, who is frankly a borderline case (I'd personally say yes) despite:

* Having considerably better career and peak numbers across the board than Edelman,
* Won the Receiving Triple Crown once, in a season where peakish Moss, Harrison, TO, Fitz, and Chad were all active,
* Has a higher playoff receiving yards per game (91.0 to 75.9),
* Did all the above with Jake Delhomme as his primary QB,
* Did all the above despite being shorter and lighter than Edelman, and
* Didn't have a PED bust.

Fuck Julian Edelman with the dildo from Se7en.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:35 am**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:19 am This much digital ink wasn't spilled when Steve Smith retired, who is frankly a borderline case (I'd personally say yes) despite:

* Having considerably better career and peak numbers across the board than Edelman,
* Won the Receiving Triple Crown once, in a season where peakish Moss, Harrison, TO, Fitz, and Chad were all active,
* Has a higher playoff receiving yards per game (91.0 to 75.9),
* Did all the above with Jake Delhomme as his primary QB,
* Did all the above despite being shorter and lighter than Edelman, and
* Didn't have a PED bust.

Fuck Julian Edelman with the dildo from Se7en.

Is Steve Smith borderline? I'd think he'd be a shoo in.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am**

Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:13 am**

my hot take is that the arguing about the argument going on here is proof of why the argument became relatively prominent in the first place

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.

Fuck no it does not.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:03 am**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.

It is not the hall of champions. I will never understand any HOF that weighs championship rings more than other stats. Unless the game is an individual game, stats and not rings should determine the merit of being a HOFer.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:37 am**

If Julian Edelman is HOF player then surely Wes Welker is an omnipotent god, and hell, I am unsure quite how to describe Stanley Morgan...

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am**

I assume "naturally athletic" or something?

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:31 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am I assume "naturally athletic" or something?

"Naturally gifted" works as well.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:03 am**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.
Fuck no it does not.

Well we're conversing so... Sox on a nine game streak!

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:08 am**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:19 am This much digital ink wasn't spilled when Steve Smith retired, who is frankly a borderline case (I'd personally say yes) despite:

* Having considerably better career and peak numbers across the board than Edelman,
* Won the Receiving Triple Crown once, in a season where peakish Moss, Harrison, TO, Fitz, and Chad were all active,
* Has a higher playoff receiving yards per game (91.0 to 75.9),
* Did all the above with Jake Delhomme as his primary QB,
* Did all the above despite being shorter and lighter than Edelman, and
* Didn't have a PED bust.

Fuck Julian Edelman with the dildo from Se7en.

Steve Smith also announced his retirement in January when there is so much more for NFL writers and fans to discuss. If Smith did retire in a dead part of the NFL calendar, there would be more discussion about his hall of fame worthiness and most of it would be about how he should be in. Looking forward to the Matthew Slater discussion when he retires.

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:20 am**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.
Fuck no it does not.

It's not the three rings, it's his performance in those Super Bowls earns him more attention than others in an announced retirement. He was a prominent part of the best Super Bowl comeback in history and played major roles in the other Super Bowls along with some playoff games. Pretty good for a guy who could barely got on the field for the first 4 years of his career, which is why he doesn't have counting stats to get in the Hall.

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:51 am**

Or, he couldn’t get on the field the first four years because he wasn’t good enough.

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:53 am**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:51 am Or, he couldn’t get on the field the first four years because he wasn’t good enough.

Yep, which doesn't change that it's impressive how he went from not being good enough to making a major impact in several Super Bowls.

(also, playing behind Welker and having no experience as a receiver before being in the NFL had a lot to do with him not being good enough the first four seasons.)

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:13 am**

EdRomero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:20 am
tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 am Right not a knock on edelman to be worse than smith. Difference is that edelman played on the greatest dynasty in pro football. That's the problem more pats less him but three rings validates the conversation. But no not hof.
Fuck no it does not.
It's not the three rings, it's his performance in those Super Bowls earns him more attention than others in an announced retirement. He was a prominent part of the best Super Bowl comeback in history and played major roles in the other Super Bowls along with some playoff games. Pretty good for a guy who could barely got on the field for the first 4 years of his career, which is why he doesn't have counting stats to get in the Hall.

Weird that a guy who went from not good enough to get on the field for 4 years to star of multiple Super Bowls was caught using PEDs.

Posted: **Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:23 am**

Does LeGarrette Blount get in?

Man too bad Rob Ninkovitch couldn't have stuck around for another year to cement his HoF case.

The Swamp

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