Happy Inauguration Day (and beyond- The Biden Presidency Thread part I)

[Steve of phpBB]

We received PPP funds. Saved at least two jobs.

Even though our office has been closed since March, we’ve kept our receptionist on full time and full pay. We would’ve laid her off without PPP, plus at least one secretary.

And how much would their 2019 salaries from you have factored into their 2020-2021 needs?

Sorry, what?

I’m fine with coming up with another way to assess need and also get money out quickly.

I think part of the problem is that while the stimulus check gets massive attention, it is neither a particularly important or a particularly effective part of the Covid relief system.

Here’s a couple threads about it. Covid relief is about UI and PPP and local government subsidies.

[Steve of phpBB]

Stimulus isn’t PPP. I would imagine you made enough to not qualify for any of the stimulus if I’m being honest. So it feels like that is coloring some of your responses.

Right, thankfully my income has been high enough not to qualify. My point is that that’s how it *should* be; others in my situation shouldn’t be getting stimulus checks either.

My wife, who manages a school lunch program, qualified for unemployment under the Cares Act’s expanded coverage. She only collected it for a while though, then we cut it off.

[mister d]

Sorry, what?

There was nothing at all unclear about my question. If you’d let your receptionist and secretary go, how would their 2019 salaries factor into their current needs?

[Brontoburglar]

We got a partial payment of the first round. It was fucking absurd. As I understand it I just owe it back now. Why can’t we do that again? You talk about priorities. This is simple. One payment against your 2020 earnings and pay it back on your 2021 taxes. Every adult in America. Shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.

you don't owe your stimulus check back

[Steve of phpBB]

Sorry, what?

There was nothing at all unclear about my question. If you’d let your receptionist and secretary go, how would their 2019 salaries factor into their current needs?

Their 2019 salaries show that they aren’t in that class of high-income individuals who probably wouldn’t need stimulus checks.

Also (1) their 2019 salaries wouldn’t have precluded a full stimulus check, and (2) if they were laid off, they’d have gotten unemployment. So they wouldn’t need the checks. But they got the $1200, and the $600, and they’ll get the $1400.

What alternative are you proposing?

[mister d]

Let’s say you paid them $35K per year. What would they make off unemployment?

[The Sybian]

We got a partial payment of the first round. It was fucking absurd. As I understand it I just owe it back now. Why can’t we do that again? You talk about priorities. This is simple. One payment against your 2020 earnings and pay it back on your 2021 taxes. Every adult in America. Shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes. People tend to splurge when they get free money, so people who get stimulus checks and don't need it will likely spend and give a bump to the economy in a time of need. They may be in a for a surprise when have to pay it back. For me, I'd put the money in the bank and forget about it, then be annoyed that my taxes are $2,000 higher. Not a big deal, just annoying. For someone who doesn't need it, but doesn't have any savings, it might be an issue when they owe it back in April. But that's on them. I'd say have an opt-in or opt-out, but that takes resources to manage, and many people in need may not have the time or ability to fill out the opt-in. I'm in a lucky position and my job remained safe. I don't need the stimulus, and I'm happy there is a cap on who gets it, because I would rather see more money go to those who need it than see it wasted on people like me who don't need it and would just throw it into savings. Meanwhile, my Republican friend who got a stimulus check and didn't need it, is happy to get the money, but pissed that others get it, because he pays for it.

[mister d]

A cap is fine if it’s real time and relative. There’s no way to accomplish the first part so you have to either risk paying people who don’t need it or risk not paying people who do. It shouldn’t be a debate.

[Steve of phpBB]

Let’s say you paid them $35K per year. What would they make off unemployment?

Under the Cares Act? I’m pretty sure more than $35K, because the Cares Act provided $600 per week on top of normal unemployment. This is from an American Federation of Teachers summary:

Pandemic Unemployment Compensation: Through July 31, 2020, all unemployment insurance and Pandemic Unemployment Assistance claimants will receive their usual calculated benefits plus an additional $600 per week in compensation. The $600 in extra compensation is not retroactive.

https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files ... 032720.pdf

Plus they’d get the full stimulus checks.

[Steve of phpBB]

Why are you making sweeping declarations about how the relief checks should be structured without knowing this stuff?

[mister d]

If the cares act covers them directly at or close to their full wages, what’s the benefit in passing through you to keep them on? Be careful here ...

[Rush2112]

Meanwhile, my Republican friend who got a stimulus check and didn't need it, is happy to get the money, but pissed that others get it, because he pays for it.

Though he's probably using every fucking loophole there is to not pay taxes.

[Johnnie]

Meanwhile, my Republican friend who got a stimulus check and didn't need it, is happy to get the money, but pissed that others get it, because he pays for it.

And that's literally the crux of every situation ever with America.

"I deserve this and you don't because my feelings are that you're a freeloader. Fuck you."

Instead of being able to frame altruism and the greater good of society as a whole as the priority in life, Americans, from a young age, look at someone getting something "for free" as a detriment to themselves.

On a very micro level, it's why "cutting in line" is such a no-no here. We learn that that's unacceptable behavior and ingrain it culturally. As you get older, those feelings manifest elsewhere.

[govmentchedda]

Let’s say you paid them $35K per year. What would they make off unemployment?

Under the Cares Act? I’m pretty sure more than $35K, because the Cares Act provided $600 per week on top of normal unemployment. This is from an American Federation of Teachers summary:

Pandemic Unemployment Compensation: Through July 31, 2020, all unemployment insurance and Pandemic Unemployment Assistance claimants will receive their usual calculated benefits plus an additional $600 per week in compensation. The $600 in extra compensation is not retroactive.

https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files ... 032720.pdf

Plus they’d get the full stimulus checks.

In a state with a working unemployment system, maybe. I'd like to introduce you to a Mr. Ron DeSantis, and the evil FLAGOP, and the incompetent FLADEMS.

[Steve of phpBB]

If the cares act covers them directly at or close to their full wages, what’s the benefit in passing through you to keep them on? Be careful here ...

1. As Chedda points out, unemployment systems logistically can’t handle the crunch of even more folks seeking UI. They were especially strained in that initial crush during March.

2. It’s better for stability if employees can keep their jobs.

3. It’s also better for people psychologically to not lose their jobs.

4. PPP couldn’t cover everyone.

5. PPP covers other business costs in addition to employee pay, such as rent up to a certain level. Reducing the number of businesses having to close.

6. If your point is that the Cares Act went too far in making sure folks were protected from the consequences of the pandemic, I’ll pass your concern on to Nancy Pelosi the next time I see her.

[mister d]

So you’re willing to outline why it’s good companies like yours received help on the same page when arguing that people in a certain prior income bracket shouldn’t because some might not “need” it. And also acknowledge that many states couldn’t handle the UI claims so some who qualified weren’t getting money.

And you forgot bulletpoint 7 which applies to the subset with employee funded healthcare.

[Steve of phpBB]

So you’re willing to outline why it’s good companies like yours received help on the same page when arguing that people in a certain prior income bracket shouldn’t because some might not “need” it. And also acknowledge that many states couldn’t handle the UI claims so some who qualified weren’t getting money.

And you forgot bulletpoint 7 which applies to the subset with employee funded healthcare.

Dude. I’m arguing that (i) lots of plans were enacted to protect against income loss while also arguing that (ii) lots of plans were enacted to protect against income loss.

You appear to disagree with my opinion that there’s a relatively small number of people who made enough income in 2019 to be disqualified from stimulus checks but suffered uncompensated losses in the pandemic and can’t reasonably expect to go back to making $$$ in six months when the pandemic is mostly past. Ok, fine. Maybe I’m wrong. But prove it. Come at me with facts. Not a bunch of “gotchas” that mostly show you don’t really understand how these various relief programs work.

[mister d]

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/02/ ... nsion.html

[BSF21]

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/02/ ... nsion.html

This is common. My buddy works for Workforce Development here in Indy and they've been months behind. He was on forced overtime up until December.

[mister d]

I had two weeks furlough which qualifies me for unemployment. The online system is an absolute mess and there's basically no phone support so I eventually just gave up. Because I could.

[Steve of phpBB]

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/02/ ... nsion.html

This is common. My buddy works for Workforce Development here in Indy and they've been months behind. He was on forced overtime up until December.

Oh sure, there are going to be glitches in the unemployment situation. And it is really, really hard for the people who get caught in that.It was unconscionable for the Republican Party to avoid passing any relief for five months after the Cares Act ran out.

But that doesn't really get to whether there should be a limit on the stimulus checks, what it should be, and what information it should be based on. How many of those people getting screwed by the NJ unemployment division made over $100K in 2019?

More broadly, how many individuals who made over $100,000 in 2019 - or two-adult families who made over $200,000 - are in that situation? They lost compensation that hasn't been and won't be made up by unemployment or other relief, and they can't count on recovering when the pandemic passes. And they don't have savings. How much would it cost to expand the program to make sure every single one of them is covered? What percentage of that extra money would actually go to the people in those bad situations? How much would go to people who aren't in that situation? What else could the money going to folks who don't need it be used for?

[Steve of phpBB]

I had two weeks furlough which qualifies me for unemployment. The online system is an absolute mess and there's basically no phone support so I eventually just gave up. Because I could.

Exactly. You could. I'm guessing that if you were out for six months, you wouldn't have given up. But as it turns out, your furlough was temporary, and you went on, and I assume that if you had a compensation loss, it wasn't enough to put you in a serious bind.

And if you were in a serious bind, and went without any compensation for six months, the money from the stimulus checks wouldn't have really made up for it.

Unemployment sucks. I've been there.

[A_B]

I had two weeks furlough which qualifies me for unemployment. The online system is an absolute mess and there's basically no phone support so I eventually just gave up. Because I could.

Exactly. You could. I'm guessing that if you were out for six months, you wouldn't have given up. But as it turns out, your furlough was temporary, and you went on, and I assume that if you had a compensation loss, it wasn't enough to put you in a serious bind.

And if you were in a serious bind, and went without any compensation for six months, the money from the stimulus checks wouldn't have really made up for it.

Unemployment sucks. I've been there.

I was off for three weeks. And while we likely could have made it (we hoarded my bonus last spring because we knew we were going to have expenses for the oldest moving into an apartment) it would not have been without obstacles. I was certainly happy that I had no issues with the UI here, though many co workers were less fortunate and it took them months to get their money.

[mister d]

That whole string of questions is unquantifiable and you know it so I'm not sure the point. Let me turn it around and pretend we could quantify: Out of 100 people who had solid jobs in 2019, how many would have to be fucked like the lady in the example you so badly needed me to find that you would send money out to all 100?

[mister d]

Exactly. You could. I'm guessing that if you were out for six months, you wouldn't have given up. But as it turns out, your furlough was temporary, and you went on, and I assume that if you had a compensation loss, it wasn't enough to put you in a serious bind.

And if you were in a serious bind, and went without any compensation for six months, the money from the stimulus checks wouldn't have really made up for it.

If I was unable to get unemployment, either because of the system or because I didn't qualify, $2,000 would pay for fucking food.

[Steve of phpBB]

That whole string of questions is unquantifiable and you know it so I'm not sure the point. Let me turn it around and pretend we could quantify: Out of 100 people who had solid jobs in 2019, how many would have to be fucked like the lady in the example you so badly needed me to find that you would send money out to all 100?

Is the lady in that article an example of someone who needs stimulus money but made too much money in 2019 to qualify?

[mister d]

Fucking call her, Steve. If her phone hasn't been turned off I'm sure she'd love to chat with the guy who can't conceptualize present day suffering because someone was fine 16 months ago.

I have to walk away from this. Someone else can try to spell everything out for you.

[Steve of phpBB]

Fucking call her, Steve. If her phone hasn't been turned off I'm sure she'd love to chat with the guy who can't conceptualize present day suffering because someone was fine 16 months ago.

I have to walk away from this. Someone else can try to spell everything out for you.

I can conceptualize suffering just fine. I've been unemployed. I've been buried by debt. You're just using that bullshit to change the subject and cover up the fact that you don't have enough information to back up what you're saying.

[Steve of phpBB]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/th ... story.html

(Biden announced his task force on reuniting separated families and signed an executive order, which is here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... -families/)

[DSafetyGuy]

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up.

29.9 percent.

That's how much weekly unemployment compensation "made up" of the smaller of the net of a paycheck I got on the two projects I worked during the last eight months of 2020. And I was very, very fortunate in that I worked 19 of those final 38 weeks of 2020. And in those 38 weeks, I also got three $600 unemployment/stimulus/whatever-you-want-to-call-them "bonuses", which stopped mid-year.

I opted to have withholding taken out at both the federal and state levels when I reupped for unemployment in the middle of the year (as a freelancer, I am a seasoned veteran of the unemployment experience). This is the first time I had withholding taken out because, until last year, we always got a tax refund and the several hundred dollars didn't make a difference (darn tax code changes).

And, in those 19 weeks or work, I was able to sock away $18K into savings. And in those eight months, our savings still turned a loss of $9K. So, $27K total out of savings in eight months... with no vacations, no major purchases, picking up dinner from a pizza place or Red Robin once, maybe twice a month.

The good news, though, is about $14K went to health insurance for those eight months.

[Steve of phpBB]

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up.

29.9 percent.

That's how much weekly unemployment compensation "made up" of the smaller of the net of a paycheck I got on the two projects I worked during the last eight months of 2020. And I was very, very fortunate in that I worked 19 of those final 38 weeks of 2020. And in those 38 weeks, I also got three $600 unemployment/stimulus/whatever-you-want-to-call-them "bonuses", which stopped mid-year.

I opted to have withholding taken out at both the federal and state levels when I reupped for unemployment in the middle of the year (as a freelancer, I am a seasoned veteran of the unemployment experience). This is the first time I had withholding taken out because, until last year, we always got a tax refund and the several hundred dollars didn't make a difference (darn tax code changes).

And, in those 19 weeks or work, I was able to sock away $18K into savings. And in those eight months, our savings still turned a loss of $9K. So, $27K total out of savings in eight months... with no vacations, no major purchases, picking up dinner from a pizza place or Red Robin once, maybe twice a month.

The good news, though, is about $14K went to health insurance for those eight months.

Yeah, I'd think people in your position are the most likely to fall through the cracks and end up getting fucked. My point has never been that those situations don't happen, but that there are relatively few of them. But for the people who are in that situation, that really sucks. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Trump issued some executive order in August that was supposed to extend the extra unemployment - though I think it was $300 per week instead of $600 under the Cares Act. Were you able to get that extra federal money? If not, can you say why you weren't - was it because you'd been doing freelance or contract stuff? Or were you back working by then?

Also, and maybe you don't want to answer this, are you ineligible for the stimulus checks because of your 2019 income?

[DSafetyGuy]

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up.

29.9 percent.

That's how much weekly unemployment compensation "made up" of the smaller of the net of a paycheck I got on the two projects I worked during the last eight months of 2020. And I was very, very fortunate in that I worked 19 of those final 38 weeks of 2020. And in those 38 weeks, I also got three $600 unemployment/stimulus/whatever-you-want-to-call-them "bonuses", which stopped mid-year.

I opted to have withholding taken out at both the federal and state levels when I reupped for unemployment in the middle of the year (as a freelancer, I am a seasoned veteran of the unemployment experience). This is the first time I had withholding taken out because, until last year, we always got a tax refund and the several hundred dollars didn't make a difference (darn tax code changes).

And, in those 19 weeks or work, I was able to sock away $18K into savings. And in those eight months, our savings still turned a loss of $9K. So, $27K total out of savings in eight months... with no vacations, no major purchases, picking up dinner from a pizza place or Red Robin once, maybe twice a month.

The good news, though, is about $14K went to health insurance for those eight months.

Yeah, I'd think people in your position are the most likely to fall through the cracks and end up getting fucked. My point has never been that those situations don't happen, but that there are relatively few of them. But for the people who are in that situation, that really sucks. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Trump issued some executive order in August that was supposed to extend the extra unemployment - though I think it was $300 per week instead of $600 under the Cares Act. Were you able to get that extra federal money? If not, can you say why you weren't - was it because you'd been doing freelance or contract stuff? Or were you back working by then?

Also, and maybe you don't want to answer this, are you ineligible for the stimulus checks because of your 2019 income?

It's not "had" to go through that. It's a perpetual cycle where I get to start doing it again next week, including watching our savings erode at an accelerated rate. Fortunately, my four weeks of work from last month mean I am likely to not have to pull anything out of savings for February. My wife, however, will transfer funds to cover the bills she pays, including that health insurance nut.

There was no additional bonus that kicked in during August. The $600/week in the spring was automatically tacked on when I filed in NY. I work on payroll for all my projects, so I am technically an employee for four or six or ten weeks at a time.

No idea about my stimulus check eligibility, but we got it in 2020, so I would guess we will make out like bandits again on it. If it's still a question after tax season is over, I can ask my accountant about it when I ask if we should make a giant withdrawal from our retirement fund, take out a home equity loan, start blowing out our credit cards, or just sell our house.

And it's not that we fell through the cracks or whatever. We're in a position that is worlds better than what other people are in. They don't have money to spend on extraneous things like health insurance. And trust me, it's very easy to see health insurance as extraneous. After college, I didn't have it until I got married, so I did things like "not see a dentist for 20 years". I broke something in my right wrist in 2003. Well, I don't know for sure that I broke it because I never saw a doctor. I thought it was just badly sprained from bracing for a fall while playing basketball. Of course, when the swelling went down, every time I rolled my wrist for the next 17+ years, it would make a popping sound (it recently stopped).

Shit like that is normal for people without money. Unemployment doesn't really do shit for them.

[Reaper]

I'm currently having Sam Bee give her take on PPP, so I'm just going to base my opinion on how she feels about it.

[psunate77]

Biden and The Dems MUST eliminate the electoral college in the next 2 years.. In Fact this has too be the most important thing they do right now.

If they don't Repub legislators are setting it up for Trump or any Repub to win in a major landslide in 2024. Arizona, Wisky, PA, and Georgia are passing laws to eliminate vote by mail, showing multiple forms of ID to vote, and even have state legislations pick who won the electoral votes in their states.

[The Sybian]

Biden and The Dems MUST eliminate the electoral college in the next 2 years.. In Fact this has too be the most important thing they do right now.

If they don't Repub legislators are setting it up for Trump or any Repub to win in a major landslide in 2024. Arizona, Wisky, PA, and Georgia are passing laws to eliminate vote by mail, showing multiple forms of ID to vote, and even have state legislations pick who won the electoral votes in their states.

How the fuck are they going to do that? Do you have any idea how hard it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment? First you need 2/3 majority of both House and Senate to agree on the language and pass it. Then you need 3/4th (38) states to ratify the Amendment. There is no way in hell a single Republican Congressman agrees to this. There is no way in hell a single red state, or any state with a smaller than average population passes this. How the fuck are you pinning this on the Dems to get it done? You have to realize, just because they have a very small majority in the House and a tied Senate and Presidency, the Dems can't just pass whatever they want. There have been 8 Amendments in the past 100 years. The only Amendment in the last 50 years involved limiting the ability to reduce the salary of Congressmen.

[Ryan]

If Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michgan, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Maine join the Popular Vote Pact thing, we're only 10 EVs away

[Steve of phpBB]

Biden and The Dems MUST eliminate the electoral college in the next 2 years.. In Fact this has too be the most important thing they do right now.

If they don't Repub legislators are setting it up for Trump or any Repub to win in a major landslide in 2024. Arizona, Wisky, PA, and Georgia are passing laws to eliminate vote by mail, showing multiple forms of ID to vote, and even have state legislations pick who won the electoral votes in their states.

How the fuck are they going to do that? Do you have any idea how hard it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment? First you need 2/3 majority of both House and Senate to agree on the language and pass it. Then you need 3/4th (38) states to ratify the Amendment. There is no way in hell a single Republican Congressman agrees to this. There is no way in hell a single red state, or any state with a smaller than average population passes this. How the fuck are you pinning this on the Dems to get it done? You have to realize, just because they have a very small majority in the House and a tied Senate and Presidency, the Dems can't just pass whatever they want. There have been 8 Amendments in the past 100 years. The only Amendment in the last 50 years involved limiting the ability to reduce the salary of Congressmen.

Yeah, if there were a way to get enough states to sign on to the National Popular Vote compact, maybe you can get around the Electoral College - but the Republicans control too many states to agree to that, and even if that were in effect, you'd have litigation in every Republican signatory state objecting to the determination as to who won the popular vote.

The best the Dems can do on their own is to add states. But even adding DC doesn't really help because DC already has three electoral votes.

[Johnnie]

[Rex]

that poet just got herself a gig in the Super Bowl pregame

I’m here to collect

[sancarlos]

that poet just got herself a gig in the Super Bowl pregame

I’m here to collect

Nice!