The Swamp

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:09 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:51 pm Maybe I’m a big dummy, but I thought they were like hurricanes where you plan and mitigate harm but you can’t prevent.

I don’t see why not. Pay attention to outbreaks and react quickly to stop them from spreading to become pandemic. Maybe you can’t stop all of them, but some?

Isn’t that what happened with Ebola?

My dumb meme aside, the designation of a "pandemic" occurs once the outbreak is too big to contain.

The first known case of COVID was 17 Nov 19.

The first known case in America was confirmed 21 Jan 20

The WHO labeled it a pandemic on 11 Mar 20

This new National Center would help mitigate early detection of a contagious disease. It won't prevent the disease from materializing.

But it can help prevent the disease from becoming a pandemic.

Now, if the disease is so contagious and so deadly in a very quick amount of time, then all the prevention in the world is just a temporary roadblock to the inevitable. Still, you have to try.

There's a lot going on right now, but when would be a good time for Breyer to retire? After the impeachment proceedings? After the cabinet gets fleshed out?

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:43 am There's a lot going on right now, but when would be a good time for Breyer to retire? After the impeachment proceedings? After the cabinet gets fleshed out?

I think it’s fine if he waits until the end of the term, in June.

I just hope he’s willing to retire.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:16 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:43 am There's a lot going on right now, but when would be a good time for Breyer to retire? After the impeachment proceedings? After the cabinet gets fleshed out?

I think it’s fine if he waits until the end of the term, in June.

I just hope he’s willing to retire.

Health issues aside, don’t Justices normally retire at the end of a session?

I think we're doomed. Even the more left people here are impossible to please.

Yes, creating funding and infrastructure to help get a handle on biological outbreaks will prevent pandemics. It doesn't make everything preventable or mean things won't happen. It means they're attempting to install procedures and safeguards to help mitigate those effects. Why on Earth do people have to nitpick things to death. We're under 48 hours from a deranged psycho leaving and the biggest stories I've seen are about how Biden has removed a diet coke button and how his whole administration is a nightmare because they're not reaching out to Republicans enough.

We're absolutely fucked.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 am I think we're doomed. Even the more left people here are impossible to please.

Yes, creating funding and infrastructure to help get a handle on biological outbreaks will prevent pandemics. It doesn't make everything preventable or mean things won't happen. It means they're attempting to install procedures and safeguards to help mitigate those effects. Why on Earth do people have to nitpick things to death. We're under 48 hours from a deranged psycho leaving and the biggest stories I've seen are about how Biden has removed a diet coke button and how his whole administration is a nightmare because they're not reaching out to Republicans enough.

We're absolutely fucked.

Well you and i must read the news differently. I've lots on the executive orders, the cabinet positons, the crazy lady, Dr. Fauci and the pandemic.

OPEN YOUR EYES BOY

I'm one of the "impossible to please" left and my highly cultivated news feed is pretty positive so far.

100 day deportation moratorium on illegal immigrants (lol) sounds pretty damn good. Left cant have an issue with that.

clearly this all has to do with media bias

The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:30 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:16 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:43 am There's a lot going on right now, but when would be a good time for Breyer to retire? After the impeachment proceedings? After the cabinet gets fleshed out?

I think it’s fine if he waits until the end of the term, in June.

I just hope he’s willing to retire.

Health issues aside, don’t Justices normally retire at the end of a session?

That’s my understanding.

I don't know what jokes are allowed these days but mine involves Breyer "retiring" via a method that includes a special vest.

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:40 am 100 day deportation moratorium on illegal immigrants (lol) sounds pretty damn good. Left cant have an issue with that.

Yeah but they haven’t abolished ICE yet.

Seriously, though, you’re always going to have *some* who really are impossible to please. But it seems to me that only a tiny group are complaining about anything right now from the left. (The $2000 vs $1400 was an exception but that seems to have passed.)

One thing Twitter is really good at is magnifying the outliers.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:46 am I don't know what jokes are allowed these days but mine involves Breyer "retiring" via a method that includes a special vest.

Hell, if we’re going there, let’s do Alito and Thomas.

This weekend I'm doing myself a favor and purging political accounts from my Twitter feed. Been looking forward to it for a long time.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:47 am

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:46 am I don't know what jokes are allowed these days but mine involves Breyer "retiring" via a method that includes a special vest.

Hell, if we’re going there, let’s do Alito and Thomas.

That's the direction I was headed.

Susan Collins just said there is no need for anymore Covid relief.. I think it's obvious the Dems need to forget Mitch asking to delay impeachment hearings and start then right away.

I hope Schumer isn't a c**t and doesn't cave to the Repubs.

psunate77 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:03 am Susan Collins just said there is no need for anymore Covid relief.. I think it's obvious the Dems need to forget Mitch asking to delay impeachment hearings and start then right away.

I hope Schumer isn't a c**t and doesn't cave to the Repubs.

I think Mr. D is now posting from Nate's account.

K-Pop fans have taken over #impeachbidennow

sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:19 pm

psunate77 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:03 am Susan Collins just said there is no need for anymore Covid relief.. I think it's obvious the Dems need to forget Mitch asking to delay impeachment hearings and start then right away.

I hope Schumer isn't a c**t and doesn't cave to the Repubs.

I think Mr. D is now posting from Nate's account.

Lol.

Sure, I guess. I too think there's no working with someone proud to obstruct your every move so Schumer either has to go around or through and I too have worries about whether he's up for it.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:58 pm Sure, I guess. I too think there's no working with someone proud to obstruct your every move so Schumer either has to go around or through and I too have worries about whether he's up for it.

In all honesty, I don't think Schumer is the problem. If there's a problem, it's probably more likely to be someone like Manchin or Feinstein, or maybe Sinema.

Three Dem Senators ostensibly led by Schumer.

That's Cesar Chavez on the table behind Biden's desk in the Oval Office.

What a difference a week makes.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:27 pm Three Dem Senators ostensibly led by Schumer.

Schumer only has so many sticks and not many carrots. He can pull committee leadership assignments which he's already done with Feinstein, but Sinema and Manchin already don't have any plum seats. He could threaten to beat them to death with a wrench I suppose.

What do you propose exactly?

CANE FIGHT

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:19 pmCANE FIGHT

TIME TO GET ALL SUMNER UP IN THIS BITCH

Maybe he could come up with a catchy slogan that prioritizes party over personal interests. Something like “Blue No Matter What”.

If Manchin were smart he’d realize he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell to get re-elected in 2024 and just get out of the way but I literally would love to see what you would do if you were in Schumer’s shoes. No snark. Please enlighten us.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:27 pmMaybe he could come up with a catchy slogan that prioritizes party over personal interests.

Here's the problem - this isn't about party versus personal interests. Hell, getting rid of the filibuster would as a practical matter make Manchin one of the most powerful people in the world.

It's about party versus what Manchin et al see as the national interest.

And of course we all agree that politicians are *supposed to* put national interests ahead of party.

brian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:31 pm If Manchin were smart he’d realize he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell to get re-elected in 2024 and just get out of the way but I literally would love to see what you would do if you were in Schumer’s shoes. No snark. Please enlighten us.

I would resign to allow someone who has far greater ability to lead and unify than I do take over.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:39 pm

brian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:31 pm If Manchin were smart he’d realize he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell to get re-elected in 2024 and just get out of the way but I literally would love to see what you would do if you were in Schumer’s shoes. No snark. Please enlighten us.

I would resign to allow someone who has far greater ability to lead and unify than I do take over.

And who is that? Who has the power to make Joe Manchin do things that he doesn't want to do?

(Besides the voters of West Virginia.)

Dude, I have no idea which person can leverage Joe Manchin or anyone else. Identifying how to get everyone on board is not at all my fucking job but that's not going to stop me from pointing out that there's always an excuse for this guy.

Unless you have some brilliant idea, either share it with us or Schumer, otherwise shut the fuck up then. You’re blaming Schumer for Manchin or Sinema having their own thoughts and agendas in a 50-50 Senate. If it were 55-45 and he couldn’t whip 50 votes you’d have a point, but you’re a self-styled expert in FUCKING EVERYTHING without having any solutions you care to offer.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:10 pm Dude, I have no idea which person can leverage Joe Manchin or anyone else. Identifying how to get everyone on board is not at all my fucking job but that's not going to stop me from pointing out that there's always an excuse for this guy.

It seems to me that there is no reason to believe that anyone in the Senate can force Manchin to do something he doesn't want to do - absent things like physical violence or hostage taking. And if there's no reason to believe that anyone can do something, it's pretty silly to criticize Schumer for not being able to do that.

I haven't ever seen anyone credibly or persuasively explain what steps a different Majority Leader could take that would force Manchin to do things he really doesn't want to do. Nor have I ever seen anyone explain why we should believe those things actually would work and would not lead to something worse down the road. Unless I see that, it seems to me that criticizing Schumer for not being able to leverage Manchin is like criticizing a baseball player for being unable to wOBA .800.

"If Schumer can't incent Manchin, Manchin can't be incented by anyone" isn't a starting point we're going to agree on.

I am guessing this is more than one person:



Last paragraph-and-a-half:

The parties of incumbent presidents usually lose seats in Congress in the midterm election that follows. Given the narrow margins by which Democrats currently control both chambers, getting too ambitious might lose them the unified Democratic government they worked so hard to earn in 2020.

But Manchin’s rapid about-face here reveals just how shortsighted and obsolete this conventional wisdom really is. As Trent points out, Roosevelt, whose New Deal leadership Manchin cited approvingly to the Post, is the rare incoming president who actually expanded his party’s legislative majorities two years later. “It’s because they were producing,” Trent says. “That led to a generation of majorities and trifectas from the Democratic Party, and we were able to do some amazing shit because of that.” In this moment of crisis, voters are far likelier to punish their lawmakers’ failures to deliver than they are to reward knee-jerk partisan intransigence. Lawmakers who don’t learn this lesson will quickly find themselves out of office.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:48 pm "If Schumer can't incent Manchin, Manchin can't be incented by anyone" isn't a starting point we're going to agree on.

You have it backwards. If Manchin can’t be incented, Schumer can’t incent Manchin.

And neither you nor anyone else has shown that Manchin can be incented.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:48 pm "If Schumer can't incent Manchin, Manchin can't be incented by anyone" isn't a starting point we're going to agree on.

You have it backwards. If Manchin can’t be incented, Schumer can’t incent Manchin.

And neither you nor anyone else has shown that Manchin can be incented.

Didn’t the people of West Virginia just do that?

If these last 4 years have taught me anything, waaaaay more people have become politically engaged. And this has intensified with the pandemic.

Meaning, it's going to be hard to pull the wool over everyone's eyes when something that can directly contribute to helping people immediately (like a check direct deposited within days of passed legislation) is going to be questioned by those currently in power.

The people are probably going to dictate that a more left leaning person needs to primary a person like Manchin so that progress can be made because they are fucking sick of being held hostage (figuratively) by their bullshit.

What can you do to a guy like Manchin if you're Schumer? Get him into a room privately with a few other folks and excoriate him behind closed doors. Publicly play like there are meaningful talks, but when the cameras are off and you're alone, use the leverage of your position as a LEADER and fucking let him have it. And if he still doesn't give? Put that in your back pocket, strategize, and plot against him when he's vulnerable.

At this point if you aren't pushing a complete and total anti-GOP agenda, you're human waste not fit for office.